Isn't trying to ban gay marriage forcing our religion on other people?

[JimG]

You realize divorce is a matter of policy right? Like back in the day there was no divorce, you stuck it out in lousy marriages and that did not seem to do wonders for the kiddos

I don’t think that the explosion in the divorce rate has done kids any favor. Their parent’s lack of commitment to each other translates to throwing the kids under the bus. Kids are the losers in divorce just as they are in same sex marriage.

 

[Birdpreacher]

I don’t think that the explosion in the divorce rate has done kids any favor. Their parent’s lack of commitment to each other translates to throwing the kids under the bus. Kids are the losers in divorce just as they are in same sex marriage.

Do you know, personally, any kids in Same Sex Homes?

I do, they are doing great.

 

[faithfulwannabe]

As a gay couple they are incapable of providing a mother and a father to a child.

Now a child might be deprived of a mother or a father in many ways, such as death or divorce. But to deny a child a mother and a father as a matter of public policy is wrong.

Agree with this. I see the completion of both father & mother. Lack of one make it harder for their children’s life. They need to strive harder in life.

 

[St_Francis]

Do you know, personally, any kids in Same Sex Homes?

I do, they are doing great.

I know someone who was raised in a single-parent home, and she is doing great, too. But the properly-done research shows that overall, children from single-parent homes don’t do as well as children from married, two-parent-of-the-opposite-sex families. Public policy should not encourage children’s being raised in single-parent families.

In the same way, we know right off the bat that children raised in the homes of homosexual couples will lack the influence of the parent of one sex or the other. Since the properly-done research also shows that in the case of single-parent homes, most of which are headed by mothers, the lack of a father has a deleterious effect on the children, one can see that having a situation in which there is only one sex of parent, albeit it two of them, would lead to similar problems.

Thus, public policy should not encourage situations in which children are being raised by homosexual couples.

Marriage is not for adults. Marriage is a social *institution *for the sake of children. Therefore marriage should be restricted to those who have the foundation from which to raise children, which homosexuals lack.

And how the justices could have found that the 14th amendment applied in this situation is beyond me. What, were the states in the mid1800s supposed to imagine all the ways people would attempt to apply the amendment and specifically state that, no, they did not intend the amendment to apply in this case or that?

 

[Hans_W]

The OP question is a good one.

I am also opposed to SSM, but if I exclude my Christian view then the question of for or against SSM boils down to the upbringing of children. How can a lesbian couple instil a father role model? How can a child growing up in a two-father home learn about the social and emotional roles only a mother can give?

 

[Tomdstone]

No more so than banning pederast marriage or polygamous marriage is forcing our religion on other people. No more so than banning theft or murder or sexual assault is forcing our religion on other people.

Polygamy is allowed in several countries.

 

[teeboy]

First let me start off. I don’t condone gay marriage at all. I believe its a grave sin and invalid.

But doesn’t the Church teach that we shouldn’t force our religion on people…

Isn’t that what we are doing when we are so forceful to ban gay marriage (civil, not sacred) just because its against our religious beliefs?

I’m wondering when the line is crossed? You know what I’m saying?

We aren’t forcing anything. We are exercising our right under the First Ammendment. The First Ammendment doesen’t prohibit “the people” from trying to support just laws in accord with a religious teaching; rather, it prohibits the federal government from forcing a religion onto “the people”.

Catholics have a right and probably a duty to defend laws grounded in the Truth (God).

 

[maryjk]

Do you know, personally, any kids in Same Sex Homes?

I do, they are doing great.

Birdpreacher–do you have two moms?

I do.

Her whole life is about her partner and she really doesn’t give a darn about the children from her actual marriage. Including the ones who totally support the gay lifestyle.

So, based on my lived experience, gay parenting is somewhat problematic.

I am sorry to hear that. But there are selfish people everywhere. Just because you mother was selfish does not mean that all gay parents are selfish.

I worked as a lawyer representing kids in CPS cases. There were cruddy straight and gay parents. There were also great foster homes for kids which were ran by gay parents. Parents who loved the children in their care immensely. I can’t unsee that love. I would encourage you to seek it out in your community before making a blanket assertion on all gay couples.

Why is your anecdotal evidence valid, but DaisymaeD’s isn’t?

 

[teeboy]

I am sorry to hear that. But there are selfish people everywhere. Just because you mother was selfish does not mean that all gay parents are selfish.

I worked as a lawyer representing kids in CPS cases. There were cruddy straight and gay parents. There were also great foster homes for kids which were ran by gay parents. Parents who loved the children in their care immensely. I can’t unsee that love. I would encourage you to seek it out in your community before making a blanket assertion on all gay couples.

Gay partnership is selfish. They can’t intentionally procreate (an unselfish act), and they know this before they enter into the partnership.

Can they give unto one another? Yes. Can they do so in the context of death in common? I don’t think so.

 

[Jeanne_S]

yes. yes it is.

Unless you can point to someway the social harm outweighs the social benifits that don’t involve digging into an ancient holy book of some religion.

So do tell,what are the social benefits of homosexuals being able to marry,adopt children,or acquire them through whatever means necessary to satisfy their desire to have kids?This in fact is the social harm that outweighs any personal benefits they may perceive

 

[lucymeadhbh]

My father died when I was 3 years old. My mother raised me, and my younger brother, singly. Did she do anything wrong? Nope. But did I sense the absence of father figure? Yes.

I believe the ideal is having a relationship with 2 members of the opposite sex before a child reaches sexual maturity. Anything less means you are at a disadvantage.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

First let me start off. I don’t condone gay marriage at all. I believe its a grave sin and invalid.

But doesn’t the Church teach that we shouldn’t force our religion on people…

Isn’t that what we are doing when we are so forceful to ban gay marriage (civil, not sacred) just because its against our religious beliefs?

I’m wondering when the line is crossed? You know what I’m saying?

Do you have a reference or source for that? I am not saying we should, or at least in an annoying way, but I didn’t think there was a teaching on it. Of course “force” also brings to light the question “what is force?”. Telling someone about your faith, or that there will be a day when we will meet Christ and answer for their lives is not really forcing.

Putting a knife to someones throat as the Mohammedans are doing…yeah, that would be forcing.

Suing someone for not baking you a cake because they believe differently than you resulting in them getting fined $135,000…yeah, probably crosses the forcing threshold too.

But I was just curious as to where you got the idea that we shouldn’t “force” the faith on others.

While you are thinking about it, it would be interesting to hear what level of interaction would you (or others) consider “force”.

Thanks for the thread!

 

[johnnyt3000]

yes. yes it is.

Unless you can point to someway the social harm outweighs the social benifits that don’t involve digging into an ancient holy book of some religion.

The Church is against rape. Would we as Catholics be “imposing our religion” on other people if we said rape should be illegal?

 

[Hans_W]

The Church is against rape. Would we as Catholics be “imposing our religion” on other people if we said rape should be illegal?

How can you bring a comparison with rape into this discussion?
Being raped must be much, much worse than being robbed off your money at gunpoint!

 

[johnnyt3000]

Do you believe that gays are capable of providing stable safe families?

It’s unnatural for a child to be raised by a same-sex couple who is pretending to take the place of a mother and father. It has negative psychological effects on them. Plenty of statistics and research on this. aleteia.org/en/lifestyle/article/growing-up-with-gay-parents-whats-the-big-deal-1-5869643663147008

A child needs a Father and a Mother.

See the statistics of children without fathers

63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.
90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.
85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)
80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)
71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)

-thefatherlessgeneration.wordpress.com/statistics/

 

[johnnyt3000]

How can you bring a comparison with rape into this discussion?
Being raped must be much, much worse than being robbed off your money at gunpoint!

It had to do with “imposing our religion” on other people. The Church is against both the changing of the definition of marriage and rape. Why would we be branded as “imposing our religion” on other people with the first, but not be called the same thing when opposing rape?

 

[johnnyt3000]

You are comparing gay couples who want to marry to child abusers, murderers, rapists, and thieves?

If the Supreme Court followed your line of thinking, it would rule that the Catholic Church must perform same-sex marriages…because that wouldn’t be forcing their beliefs on you, it would be doing what they think is right–as you think you are doing.

But the Court is not going to do this…because they believe in the right and freedom for you to follow your beliefs in your own life. They will not force you to marry someone of the opposite sex, they will not force your church to do so, either.

So perhaps, you should follow suit…and not force others to follow your beliefs?

.

Is the Church “forcing religion” on other people because they believe rape should be banned as should the changing of the definition of marriage? What is marriage anyway? How does it have its effects on society?

 

[johnnyt3000]

You are comparing gay couples who want to marry to child abusers, murderers, rapists, and thieves?

If the Supreme Court followed your line of thinking, it would rule that the Catholic Church must perform same-sex marriages…because that wouldn’t be forcing their beliefs on you, it would be doing what they think is right–as you think you are doing.

But the Court is not going to do this…because they believe in the right and freedom for you to follow your beliefs in your own life. They will not force you to marry someone of the opposite sex, they will not force your church to do so, either.

So perhaps, you should follow suit…and not force others to follow your beliefs?

.

Are you right now “forcing your beliefs” on us by saying we can’t “force our beliefs” on others? Who are you to say that?

 

[mek42]

If we’re going by personal anecdotes now, my folks were both Catholic. And my dad was an alcoholic who was verbally abusive to the whole family and my mom refused to even separate from him. Therefore Catholic families are bad for childraising.

 

[Hans_W]

It’s unnatural for a child to be raised by a same-sex couple who is pretending to take the place of a mother and father. It has negative psychological effects on them. Plenty of statistics and research on this. aleteia.org/en/lifestyle/article/growing-up-with-gay-parents-whats-the-big-deal-1-5869643663147008

A child needs a Father and a Mother.

[my emphasis]

Yes, that would be my strongest argument (and not the only one) against SSM.