Perhaps less children would be injured if:
- Hamas leaders didn’t prevent families from moving after being pre-warned by Israel,
- Hamas “fighters” didn’t hide along with their rocket launchers among civilians, including children.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
Good points JonNC.
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gnjsdad
Guest
Yuval Steinitz:
Netanyahu is pursuing a remarkably stupid and shortsighted policy. It’s as if he’s living in a bubble and cannot see the changes sweeping the world around him and his garrison state. Israel has been trying unsuccessfully for 30 years to disarm its erstwhile ally Hamas. These rockets are relatively easy to manufacture. Destroy Hamas and some other organization will take over and the rockets will continue to pester Israel.
This does have a certain logic. Occasionally, the jailer must enter the cell blocks and search each individual cell to make sure it is “clean” of weapons. However, this will not do anything to change the attitiude of inmates.
Netanyahu is pursuing a remarkably stupid and shortsighted policy. It’s as if he’s living in a bubble and cannot see the changes sweeping the world around him and his garrison state. Israel has been trying unsuccessfully for 30 years to disarm its erstwhile ally Hamas. These rockets are relatively easy to manufacture. Destroy Hamas and some other organization will take over and the rockets will continue to pester Israel.
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Cromwell4
Guest
This is ethnic cleansing with US approval. Israel will not rest until everyone has fled from Gaza. Israel now uses the same techniques that Nazis used against them. They seem to have learned only the evil not the good.
Yet Israel will fail in the long run. American Jews will never be safe in this barren land and they must soon return to USA. This is a C21st type of colonialism with continuous land grab and persecution of the indigenous people. Like all colonial efforts it will fail in the long term. Sad that so many innocent lives must be lost before US admits that Israel is an apartheid state with absurd expansionist ambitions.
If they cannot live in peace with the local inhabitants then like the whites in Africa they must return to Europe. Islam is expanding exponentially making Israel’s continued existence untenable. This is a failed C19th idea whose time has passed. Already young Israeli parents are asking whether there is really any future there for their children. When US aid dries up, Israel will cease to exist.
Yet Israel will fail in the long run. American Jews will never be safe in this barren land and they must soon return to USA. This is a C21st type of colonialism with continuous land grab and persecution of the indigenous people. Like all colonial efforts it will fail in the long term. Sad that so many innocent lives must be lost before US admits that Israel is an apartheid state with absurd expansionist ambitions.
If they cannot live in peace with the local inhabitants then like the whites in Africa they must return to Europe. Islam is expanding exponentially making Israel’s continued existence untenable. This is a failed C19th idea whose time has passed. Already young Israeli parents are asking whether there is really any future there for their children. When US aid dries up, Israel will cease to exist.
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Coatimundi
Guest
If Israel wanted Gaza for itself, it would not have withdrawn from Gaza back in 2005. The abandonment of Jewish settlements and businesses, forced upon ordinary Israelis by their government, caused a great deal of heartache and soul-searching within Israel. However, they decided to turn Gaza over to the Palestinians in a serious attempt to move towards a permanent peace settlement.
What happened afterwards is tragic. Then militias of Hamas and Fateh battled one another, leading to the expulsion of Fateh and a long lasting division in Palestinian leadership. The Palestinian Authority, technically the representative of the West Bank and Gaza, truly could only speak for the West Bank. This division of leadership has complicated the peace process.
Worse, Hamas abandoned the peace process and turned to a policy of rocket strikes and other attacks on Israel. Although Israel handed them a tremendous gift of territory, they chose to use that territory to wage war rather than build peace. This permanent warring has ensured the suffering the people of Gaza.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
So some think Israel should just throw in the towel and give up?
This is not ethnic cleansing.
This is trying to cripple the terrorists and destroying their weapon’s cache. Hamas and palestinian authority endanger the lives of the palestinians. I don’t like what is happening but they can’t seem to abide by any peace agreements.
This is not ethnic cleansing.
This is trying to cripple the terrorists and destroying their weapon’s cache. Hamas and palestinian authority endanger the lives of the palestinians. I don’t like what is happening but they can’t seem to abide by any peace agreements.
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gnjsdad
Guest
Israel would take the territory of Gaza in a heartbeat. It’s the 1.7 million inhabitants (nearly half of which are children) they don’t want.
Yes, what happened is indeed tragic. In 2006, the Palestinians, encouraged by the Bush administration, held elections in the West Bank and Gaza. To everyone’s surprise, Hamas won the election! This the Bush administration and Israel could not accept – a perfect example of let’s overturn election results we don’t like. We and the Israelis then sponsored a Fatah coup attempt which was successful in the West Bank
but not Gaza. Unfortunately for the Palestinian people their tendency to split into warring feuding factions has been used by their enemies to great effect. This is what happened as a prelude to this latest Israeli attack. Fatah and Hamas recently formed a unity coalition, which Israel cannot accept. It’s why Israel blamed Hamas for the murder of the 3 teens when in reality, the Israeli govt knew that the perpetrators were members of a splinter group not affiliated with Hamas.
See here some first rate analysis of the Jewish teens murder and its immediate aftermath.
Coatamundi:
A little perspective is in order. I believe that the rockets being fired from Gaza into Israel are a war crime. It is illegal to indiscrimiantely fire rockets with the intent of causing harm to civilians. But the vast majority of these rockets (which contain no guidance system) don’t hit anything and cause no civilian casualties. That is why our slavishly pro-Israel media, when referring to the “thousands of rockets fired into Israel” don’t mention any casualties. But if these indiscriminate rocket attacks which nevertheless cause little damage are a war crime, then firing missiles from F16 fighters and helicopter gunships into buildings in densely populated civilian areas knowing that significant deaths and injuries to innocent parties will occur also certainly qualifies as a war crime.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
Do you think the iron dome system has prevented casualties in Israel?
It has intercepted many missiles that might have caused casualties if allowed to hit. I think Israel has bomb shelters as well. I don’t think the palestinians are firing rockets not to inflict damage.
Don’t the liberals get tired of blaming Bush for everything?
It has intercepted many missiles that might have caused casualties if allowed to hit. I think Israel has bomb shelters as well. I don’t think the palestinians are firing rockets not to inflict damage.
Don’t the liberals get tired of blaming Bush for everything?
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graciew
Guest
Some say the Israeli Iron Dome has intercepted 70 missiles,some interpret Hamas missiles as a desperate call to the Muslim world to join them,some say that if Israel attacks and eliminates Hamas and their armed forces,then Israel will have become a political instrument of Saudi Arabia in Middle East.
77 % of the dead are civilians.
This is the international main concern right now. Cease fire. And how to make this possible.
77 % of the dead are civilians.
This is the international main concern right now. Cease fire. And how to make this possible.
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freeRadical
Guest
Israel has said that they do not want a cease fire. They have ignored both the UN and the US. They said they will stop when they are sure they have significantly crippled Hamas’s ability to launch rockets into Israel.
Does Israel not have the right to defend her citizens? It’s not her fault that Hamas hides rockets in mosques and hospitals. If Hamas would stop launching rockets into Israel, then none of this would be happening.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
Yes Israel has been defending itself over there since 1948.
I know they want to deal a blow to Hamas but whoever has been supplying missiles and weapons to Hamas will continue to do so.
Israel has to be concerned when it sees what is happening in syria, iraq and the 2 groups now wanting to have a caliphate and another group now an emirate (I hope I have that right).
It is a big mess over there now and iran, russia, saudi arabia and jordan are watching closely.
I know they want to deal a blow to Hamas but whoever has been supplying missiles and weapons to Hamas will continue to do so.
Israel has to be concerned when it sees what is happening in syria, iraq and the 2 groups now wanting to have a caliphate and another group now an emirate (I hope I have that right).
It is a big mess over there now and iran, russia, saudi arabia and jordan are watching closely.
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gnjsdad
Guest
Of course, you can cite proof of that charge.
If Israel would lift its economic blockade and stop stealing Palestinian land and resources, Hamas would stop launching rockets into Israel is another way of looking at this.
Ah, the code!!
Translation: all of Israel is “Palestinian land”. Hence, the call for Israel to give back its “stolen Palestinian land” really means give up every inch of Israel. And even if this isn’t your definition of “stolen Palestinian land”, it is the definition of Hamas.
The fact is that over the last decade, Israel has offered back lands she has (rightfully) confiscated after aggression against her has been launched by those who wish to destroy her. The Palestinian leadership has always turned these offers down because"
all of Israel is “stolen Palestinian land”.
Let’s not forget how this started: Hamas kidnapped 3 children - 3 CHILDREN! - and murdered them!
Jon
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graciew
Guest
The story is always valid for the one who tells it.
We can spend years arguing who started what.
Would it lead anywhere ?
We can spend years arguing who started what.
Would it lead anywhere ?
No. This is fact. Hamas started this round of violence, as they have started every other round of violence, by kidnapping three children and murdering them. One held dual Israel / US citizenship. IOW, this time, Hamas murdered a US citizen! Perhaps US planes should be participating, as well.
If left alone, Israel does not attack its neighbors. It has not attacked Egypt since the Camp David accords (or before, for that matter). It has not attacked Jordan. It doesn’t attack Saudi Arabia. There is no moral equivalence here. The aggressors are Hamas (and Hezbollah in Lebanon), not Israel.
Jon
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graciew
Guest
There are dead children on both sides.
Facts.
What do you mean by moral equivalence ?
Facts.
What do you mean by moral equivalence ?
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gnjsdad
Guest
Are you sure this is “fact”? Hamas would decide to sacrifice all of the political good will it has built up in Gaza over the past couple of years just for the satisfaction of murdering three unknown Jewish teens? Are they that irrational? If your presumption is that they are that crazy, then there’s no point in going on with the discussion.
There is strong evidence that the perpetrators of the murders were not acting at the behest of Hamas at all. There is further evidence that the Netanyahu government found out relatively quickly (the 911 tape of the crime has been released) the real circumstances and cynically withheld the facts (even from the families of the murdered teens!) for a number of days while it ginned up a massive propaganda campaign in preparation for this latest attack which has absolutely nothing to do with the murders at all (see my earlier link in the thread).
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freeRadical
Guest
What Palestinian land and resources is Israel “stealing”?
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freeRadical
Guest
Proof of what charge? That Hamas hides rockets in mosques and hospitals? Why would Israel deliberately target mosques and hospitals unless they thought Hamas was hiding rockets there?
I guess we will find out when one of two things happens: 1) " the non-Hamas perpetrators" are found, prosecuted, and held accountable, or 2) The “non-Hamas perpetrators” are celebrated as heroes.
Jon
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