Israel 'ready for escalation' of Gaza conflict

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7_Sorrows said:
The Jews were in Israel thousands of years ago.
They are not illegally occupying their land.
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So were Philistines, Caananites, Babylonians, Romans, Assyrians, and Greeks. Native Americans were in this country before us too. Maybe we should give the land back to them.

Look, Jews have not had a state of their own since their successful Maccabean revolt…that was over 2,000 years ago! I’m sure you could point to many nations and find that before their current occupants were there, a previous people were there.

Jerusalem once was part of the Roman Empire, in fact the west fought for it to reclaim it from the Muslims. Why did we have possession of it if it rightfully belonged to the Jews then? Were the Crusades about reconquering the land so we could give that land back to the Jews?

2,000 years is long enough! The only reason why they got that land is because the Brits felt sorry for them because of the Holocaust. Meanwhile, the Arabs had lived there for hundreds of years.

But of course, through a violent invasion, they got “their” land back.
 
I had to recover a little after reading your post.
The Brits felt sorry for them after the Holocaust? Oh dear. How did you become so anti-semitic?! How does one learn that?

So you are saying because the Brits felt sorry for them they really have no right to live in Israel? It was all a mistake? Does it even bother you that the Holocaust could have happened in the 20th century?

How many times is jerusalem mentioned in the Quran?
 
7_Sorrows said:
I had to recover a little after reading your post.
The Brits felt sorry for them after the Holocaust? Oh dear. How did you become so anti-semitic?! How does one learn that?

So you are saying because the Brits felt sorry for them they really have no right to live in Israel? It was all a mistake? Does it even bother you that the Holocaust could have happened in the 20th century?

How many times is jerusalem mentioned in the Quran?
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I also feel sorry for them too after what happened to them. Accusing me of anti-semitism is a low blow.

True, they had a “state” in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago. But that’s long enough ago. They had the land, they had the kingdom, but it didn’t last long. It belonged to the Arabs for hundreds of years, and then it was invaded–subsequently, Palestinians had more and more of their land taken away, and their rights diminished. Now they live in slums.

Jerusalem doesn’t have to be in the Quran for Arabs to settle there. Don’t forget: most Muslims in the world aren’t even Arab. Perhaps Indonesian Muslims ought not be there too, since Indonesia is not in the Quran!
 
I didn’t mean to deal you a low blow, but I don’t know how to interpret your posts other than anti-jewish or anti-israel.
The second jewish temple was destroyed in 70 a.d.
From that time on they lived in diaspora throughout the world until the State of Israel was created after World War II. The wailing wall is what remains of the second temple.

If Jerusalem is so important to the Muslims, why is it not mentioned in the Quran.
 
TheAdvocate said:
I also feel sorry for them too after what happened to them. Accusing me of anti-semitism is a low blow.

True, they had a “state” in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago. But that’s long enough ago. They had the land, they had the kingdom, but it didn’t last long. It belonged to the Arabs for hundreds of years, and then it was invaded–subsequently, Palestinians had more and more of their land taken away, and their rights diminished. Now they live in slums.

Jerusalem doesn’t have to be in the Quran for Arabs to settle there. Don’t forget: most Muslims in the world aren’t even Arab. Perhaps Indonesian Muslims ought not be there too, since Indonesia is not in the Quran!
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Nobody had a “state” in Palestine after the Jews and before the Jews. From the conquest by Alexander to 1948, it was a “conquered territory” of someone’s. It has always been inhabited by Jews and the ancestors of modern-day people who consider themselves Arabs.

Once the Ottoman oppression ended, the Jews and Arabs could not or would not tolerate each others’ presence. The Brits aided (reluctantly) in the creation of a Jewish state in Israel and a Palestinian Arab state in Jordan. There is now a second Palestinian Arab state in Gaza, ruled by a terrorist organization.

The only Arabs who lost their land in Israel were those who fled so ARab armies could kill all the Jews. Israel refuses their return, but it did not dispossess those Arabs who did not flee. Few, whether Jews or Arabs, own land in Israel. Most of it is leased by the government. Hawaii is similar in that way. Like Hawaii, it’s a tiny place.

Jews and Arabs can own land in the West Bank. Much of it is owned by Arab landlords who don’t live there and never did. One-third or so of the population of the West Bank is Jewish.

So, where do you want to put those Jews so there can be a third “Palestinian state”?
 
Hundreds of years this conflict been going on. Arabs and Jews are both Semites-yet many distrust eachother and going on since Biblical times.
 
TheAdvocate said:
Israel is the occupier, and has been illegally since shortly after WWII. The Palestinians had been living there for hundreds of years before they were invaded. And then after they invade, they treat the Palestinians as third-class citizen. They were driven from their homes. And people are surprised that they’re angry and desperate? I am no advocate for violence—certainly not terrorism—but half of those being bombed by the Israelis are civilians, and half of them are children.

Unfortunately, our news media is generally biased toward Israel in their reporting. (We’re all familiar with media bias) I urge you all to try to see how much the Palestinians have been oppressed over the past few decades.

Here’s one source…in general, it’s too liberal for me, but when it comes to Palestine, they’re reporting that which most other media establishments ignore.

democracynow.org/topics/palestine
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Yep, that’s the progressive position. Americans typically don’t understand “the code”. When they hear “stolen or occupied Palestinian land”, they assume what is meant is land outside the 1948 UN established borders.
They don’t realize that Hamas (and some American progressives) wish Israel to cease to exist altogether.
And this is the reason that Israel must have the freedom to defend its borders and people.

Jon
 
Michael_Mayo said:
I just heard about the 4 young boys killed. That can have no justification, can it?
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The silence in response to this atrocity is deafening…

This sums things up much better than I can.

Gaza: 4 Dead Boys on the Beach & Israel’s Precision War

*What can we conclude from this sickening attack? *

1. Israel actually has quite bad intelligence about Gaza. The Israeli navy thought it was bombarding militants when it was actually just shelling a civilian beach with little children running around on it.

2. Israel doesn’t know exactly what it is shelling. The Israelis clearly saw the four little boys running away, and deliberately fired another shell at them, killing them. The gunner surely thought he had Hamas in his sights. In fact, they were just little boys, deliberately targeted and killed as they were trying to get away.

3. Israel’s so-called warnings to Palestinians to leave are absurd, because the civilians have no place to go in tiny Gaza.

4. This is not a precision war on Israel’s part. The Israeli officers outside Gaza are just hitting any old target and then declaring it a Hamas depot.

5. Israel’s response to the incident, that it will conduct an investigation, is pure propaganda. The Israeli government almost never finds against itself. The passive aggressive phraseology is a dead giveaway.

The shelling of boys on a beach is symbolic of the aggressive paranoia of the Likud government.
 
gnjsdad said:
The silence in response to this atrocity is deafening…

This sums things up much better than I can.

Gaza: 4 Dead Boys on the Beach & Israel’s Precision War

*What can we conclude from this sickening attack? *

1. Israel actually has quite bad intelligence about Gaza. The Israeli navy thought it was bombarding militants when it was actually just shelling a civilian beach with little children running around on it.

2. Israel doesn’t know exactly what it is shelling. The Israelis clearly saw the four little boys running away, and deliberately fired another shell at them, killing them. The gunner surely thought he had Hamas in his sights. In fact, they were just little boys, deliberately targeted and killed as they were trying to get away.

3. Israel’s so-called warnings to Palestinians to leave are absurd, because the civilians have no place to go in tiny Gaza.

4. This is not a precision war on Israel’s part. The Israeli officers outside Gaza are just hitting any old target and then declaring it a Hamas depot.

5. Israel’s response to the incident, that it will conduct an investigation, is pure propaganda. The Israeli government almost never finds against itself. The passive aggressive phraseology is a dead giveaway.

The shelling of boys on a beach is symbolic of the aggressive paranoia of the Likud government.
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It’s “symbolic” only of the fact that sometimes in war, actions have consequences other than those that are intended.

Did John Kerry, for example, truly know the kid he shot in the back in Viet Nam really was just a kid? Did he know whether the kid would just run away or perhaps reach a hidden weapon, turn around and attack? Giving him the benefit of the doubt, one imagines he saw a figure of uncertain size and unknown age running, and shot at it without giving it full and critical deliberation.
 
Ridgerunner said:
It’s “symbolic” only of the fact that sometimes in war, actions have consequences other than those that are intended.

Did John Kerry, for example, truly know the kid he shot in the back in Viet Nam really was just a kid? Did he know whether the kid would just run away or perhaps reach a hidden weapon, turn around and attack? Giving him the benefit of the doubt, one imagines he saw a figure of uncertain size and unknown age running, and shot at it without giving it full and critical deliberation.
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Is 80% civilian deaths acceptable consequences?
In one particularly graphic case, two severely handicapped women were killed on Saturday when a missile struck their disabled care home. Two suspected militants who lived in flats upstairs were away at the time.

The women’s disabilities prevented them from responding to advance warning rockets.
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telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10967279/UN-80-per-cent-of-Palestinians-killed-in-Israeli-offensive-are-civilians.html
 
Ridgerunner said:
Of course not, and Hamas is rightly to be condemned for its practices in deliberately exposing civilians to the war.
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I see. None of this is the fault of those doing the actual shelling: the IDF.

I take it you agree that Israel’s “precision” targeting is not up to snuff?
 
estesbob said:
No-it is disgraceful how Hamas hides behind women and children.
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Yes, the Israelis must surely know that the Hamas fighters are most likely holed up in the underground Gaza tunnels…yet they continue to shell innocent civilians anyway. So, it’s either extraordinarily bad intelligence Israel is getting or Israel is willfully and callously indifferent to the suffering it is causing.
 
gnjsdad said:
I see. None of this is the fault of those doing the actual shelling: the IDF.

I take it you agree that Israel’s “precision” targeting is not up to snuff?
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No targeting is ever totally foolproof. Not Israel’s, not ours. Even Hamas’ targeting isn’t perfect, since they haven’t killed anywhere near as many Israeli civilians as they want to kill.

Israel accepted the Egyptian-proposed cease fire. Hamas didn’t. So, you want Israel to just keep getting shelled and do nothing?

What do you propose, that Israel accept Hamas’ declared purpose to kill all the Jews?
 
gnjsdad said:
Yes, the Israelis must surely know that the Hamas fighters are most likely holed up in the underground Gaza tunnels…yet they continue to shell innocent civilians anyway. So, it’s either extraordinarily bad intelligence Israel is getting or Israel is willfully and callously indifferent to the suffering it is causing.
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How do you know where the Hamas killers are?
 
Meanwhile a civilian plane is shot down over the ukraine killing all 295 people on board. Is anyone condemning this act or is Istael the only bad guy?
 
7_Sorrows said:
Meanwhile a civilian plane is shot down over the ukraine killing all 295 people on board. Is anyone condemning this act or is Istael the only bad guy?
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Most anti-Americans will blame Ukraine for the Malaysian plane shoot-down, though it was probably Russians.

But somebody, somewhere, in the pro-Hamas side of things, will surely blame Israel even for that.
 
7_Sorrows said:
Hi gracie. Oh now I understand a little better.
I guess I never really identified myself as a north american although I am. We just say american-meaning from the u.s.a.
So I don’t know if you day american or south american.
Are you from Argentina?

I don’t think I really tried learning about the middle east conflict until after 9/11 happened. It is very complicated but after world war I
the ottoman empire broke up after several hundred centuries of existence. I believe during that time they had a caliphate. The ottoman empire was broken up and we got the map of the middle east we know today eventually. Then in 1948 the State of Isrsel was created.
Problems have existed since break up of empire.
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Glad to hear I have been forgiven.🙂
Yes, I live 10/14 hours flight from you.
The American or South American chat is not really relevant. It was only meant for the purpose of illustrating that narratives can be really even opposite stories over one word…and the issue of conflict over identity.

I appreciate historical references,and I have been reading too.

Peace and thank you,7Sorrows.
 
7_Sorrows said:
Meanwhile a civilian plane is shot down over the ukraine killing all 295 people on board. Is anyone condemning this act** or is Istael the only bad guy**?
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Heck no. America’s the biggest bad guy. The current president has spent lots of time apologizing for how bad we are.

Jon
 
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