Israel 'ready for escalation' of Gaza conflict

[St_Francis]

:banghead:

No, that is a prime example of Israeli war propaganda. It is pure fiction. Hamas does not use human shields:

newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/07/jeremy-bowens-gaza-notebook-i-saw-no-evidence-hamas-using-palestinians-human
theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/22/gaza-displaced-palestinians-not-safe
independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-the-myth-of-hamass-human-shield-9619810.html

It is true that Hamas technically does not use human shields, as the definition is when people are placed in the position rather than the danger being placed among the people, but among non-professionals just as abortion is called murder even tho technically it is not since murder is defined as killing which is against the law.

Want to know who does use human shields? Take a wild guess:

palestinechronicle.com/robert-bernstein-human-shield-for-criticism-of-israel/#.U99WtFbIoy4
samsonblinded.org/news/un-accuses-israel-of-using-human-shields-9687

These pictures are very ambiguous and could easily admit of another explanation.

 

[St_Francis]

A Letter written by Jon Voigt in response to Penelope Cruz and Javier Bardem’s letter regarding the Israeli/Gaza conflict, which was very anti-Israel:

hollywoodreporter.com/news/jon-voight-pens-letter-ignorant-723007

Wow, I am speechless. What a letter!

 

[TheAdvocate]

All the civilians in the area are protection for a terrorist agenda launching attacks from among them. And their agenda is clear from their own doctrine. And they are deemed a “terrorist” group because of their despicable agenda.

I too have read—and provided my own link above—that there is little evidence. The only it is only “documented” in the repeated lies by the Israeli government.

An excerpt from the article in Salon: (salon.com/2014/07/18/israels_military_has_no_moral_superiority_and_its_time_the_media_covered_gaza_fairly/)

Human Shields

While human rights organizations haven’t yet addressed “human shields” allegations in the ongoing round of Israel-Gaza violence, they did after the 2009 round when Israel killed at least 773 Palestinian civilians, compared to three Israeli civilian casualties (a ratio of 257:1), and used the same “human shields” argument to deflect responsibility for those deaths. When the dust settled, Amnesty International investigated the matter and concluded that there was “no evidence that [Palestinian] rockets were launched from residential houses or buildings while civilians were in these buildings.” More attention-worthy was the report’s note that,

in the cases of [Israeli] precision missiles or tank shells which killed [Palestinian] civilians in their homes, no fighters were present in the houses that were struck and Amnesty International delegates found no indication that there had been any armed confrontations or other military activity in the immediate vicinity at the time of the attack.

Israel’s Use of Human Shields

By contrast, the same report found that “in several cases Israeli soldiers also used [Palestinian] civilians, including children, as ‘human shields’.” Going back in time just a little further to put this into context is important: when the Israeli Supreme Court ruled in 2005 that the Israeli military had to stop using Palestinian civilians as human shields, the Israeli “defense” establishment objected to the ruling. The appeal against the ruling failed, and the practice remains technically illegal, but Israel implicitly encourages it to continue by offering an “inadequate … slap on the wrist,” as Human Rights Watch put it, to Israeli soldiers caught using this reprehensible tactic.

 

[Tomdstone]

Documented, they use human shields, complicates this issue.

Please see post #830 where it is documented that it is Israel that is using human shields.

 

[Tomdstone]

So, even with crystal clear photographic evidence from multiple international media outlets, you’re denying that Israel uses Palestinian children as human shields? And even though multiple international media outlets, including the United Nations, say there is absolutely no evidence for it, you believe that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields? I suppose it couldn’t possibly make even the smallest difference to your beliefs on the matter, seeing as how you’re impervious to well-documented factual evidence, both photographic and otherwise, but I may as well post this link, too:

electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/isolated-weapons-find-vacant-unrwa-school-cannot-justify-israels-gaza-slaughter

It’s an article detailing how the United Nations has thus far found evidence of Hamas stashing weapons at one school only, and that school was abandoned, a fact known to one and all, Israeli and Palestinian alike.

I am unfortunately incapable of making the blind see.
I can only hope Christ Himself has better luck curing your willful blindness.

A few of us here are able to see what the photographs prove and to read what the UN has said.

 

[Tomdstone]

The IDF routinely uses Palestinian children as human shields when it goes on raids in the West Bank.

So the Israeli pro-war propaganda machine has turned everything upside down?

 

[Tomdstone]

… the Israeli Supreme Court ruled in 2005 that the Israeli military had to stop using Palestinian civilians as human shields, the Israeli “defense” establishment objected to the ruling.

People here have been telling us that Israel does not use human shields. If Israel did not use human shields, why did the Israeli Supreme Court rule that Israel had to stop using human shields?

 

[josie_L]

A few of us here are able to see what the photographs prove and to read what the UN has said.

The photographs are not demonstrative (there are three pictures, two of which are the same) that the IDF are using children as shields, i.e., we have no clue what’s happening in these pictures.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I too have read

And that means what? Hamas is a terrorist group, indiscriminately targeting civilians from among civilians. Two terrorist attacks today, and praised by the terrorists who love killing innocent civilians. Only terrorists praise terrorist slaughter.

"Hamas praised the terrorist who killed an Israeli with the bulldozer in Jerusalem and, “congratulated the free Palestinian of Jerusalem for his attack. This attack is a natural response to the occupation of our people,” Hamas said.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inquisitr.com%2F1391582%2Fjerusalem-terror-attacks-an-extension-of-hamas-gaza-war-on-israel%2F&ei=BcnfU8jCLMqpyATEqoGYDQ&usg=AFQjCNExXaxhp-lXIh9yJlvMjoVyKBwq2w

Hamas on Monday specifically called on Arabs in Judea and Samaria to conduct attacks on Israelis, urging them to start the “third intifada” that would start with attacks on Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria, and eventually move into the rest of Israel.

In a message sent out by Hamas Monday to “the Palestinians of the Occupied West Bank,” Hamas called on Arabs to “conduct mass riots” over the next three days as a “sign of support” for Gaza, and of “resistance” to “violence” by Israel.

n its message, Hamas called on residents of Hevron, Ramallah and Shechem to converge on the main square in their cities and demand that Hamas retain the right to keep its weapons – rockets and tunnels – agains Israel.

Hamas on Monday praised the terrorist who killed an Israeli and injured four others with a tractor in Jerusalem. Hamas said that it “congratulated the free Palestinian of Jerusalem for his attack. This attack is a natural response to the occupation of our people,” Hamas said. In a statement, Hamas spokesperson Fawzi Barhoum said that “the action in Jerusalem was very brave, a natural response to the occupation.”

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQqQIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.israelnationalnews.com%2FNews%2FNews.aspx%2F183719&ei=BcnfU8jCLMqpyATEqoGYDQ&usg=AFQjCNHB0kbG4P8WeEGAmjZco-O_CRjRRg

Terrorists and cowards, who praise slaughter of the innocent, they encourage more innocent civilian attacks in fact.

US repetitively states Israel has the right to defend itself against terrorists.

So Hamas are terrorists who targets civilians, then praise and encourage the behavior. I know they have higher standards than firing rockets indiscriminately from populated civilian areas.

Note; “They enourage and praise death of civilians” All terrorists do this, its “why” they are called terrorists.

Which point would you like to labor, what specifically defines a human shield, or the lacking response that “they did it too” being your rationale?

 

[GaryTaylor]

“We know that Hamas uses human shields. But why would you report this when you are sitting in the middle of the Gaza Strip, surrounded by Hamas gunmen?”

The uncovered media story…

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCkQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gatestoneinstitute.org%2F4518%2Fmedia-hamas&ei=qdTfU92TNqffsASg04HQBw&usg=AFQjCNHm6uLpzjLuJ85Ty2EEr8RiR9lV1w

No decent human being could not feel compassion and sorrow over the scores of dead Palestinian civilians. But the almost pornographic close-ups of injured and killed Palestinians without explaining the central role Hamas plays in their deaths and injuries do more to confuse then enlighten the public.

In many ways, CCTV coverage of the conflict without the networks’ editorial picture selection and emotional but information-lacking voice-overs would probably do a better job at informing the public.

Yes, we would still see the destruction caused by Israeli shelling… but the CCTV cameras would also catch Hamas terrorists firing from civilian areas, show how the IDF is dropping leaflets warning civilians ahead of bombings and broadcast how civilians are used as human shields – all important elements of this war usually missing from the coverage.

Occasionally, though, the truth slips out, often almost accidentally. Take for example the July 15 story in the Washington Post, headlined, “While Israel held its fire, the militant group Hamas did not.” In the seventh paragraph we suddenly read that the Shifa Hospital in Gaza City had “become a de facto headquarters for Hamas leaders, who can be seen in the hallways and offices.”

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecommentator.com%2Farticle%2F5136%2Ffear_and_trembling_western_media_and_hamas&ei=qdTfU92TNqffsASg04HQBw&usg=AFQjCNEyleA-8EjqYlFPR4J_fN-1huqcow

 

[josie_L]

You are the first one to bring up this important point on the purported use of human shields!

The IDF routinely uses Palestinian children as human shields when it goes on raids in the West Bank. Why? It makes the people LESS likely to offer armed resistance. You’ve got to hand it to the IDF when it comes to disseminating war propaganda. Apparently, the Palestinians are so irrational, that when the IDF uses human shields, they will tamp down the armed resistance. When Hamas is alleged to use human shields, it’s because, in that trite, cruel, self-serving phrase used by Golda Meir, “the Palestinians hate Israel more than they love their own children”.

Please read this

MARGARET WENTE

Human shields are Hamas’s PR

It’s hard to figure out why Hamas would launch a missile attack against Israel. They can’t possibly win. Their missiles are useless, and seldom hit anything before the Israelis blow them up. If they wanted to, they could crush Hamas like a bug.

What Hamas does get is good PR. The visuals are golden: fleeing civilians, injured kids, apartment buildings bombed to rubble. So are the lopsided statistics – hundreds of Palestinians dead but zero Israelis. European press coverage has been overwhelmingly sympathetic to the Palestinians. In the Guardian, one commentator called the conflict “as perverse as Mike Tyson punching a toddler.”

There’s another difference between the two sides. Israel doesn’t want to shed civilian blood. Hamas needs it – especially from its own civilians. That’s one reason why it puts rocket launchers and ammunition dumps in mosques and homes in crowded neighbourhoods. That’s why it told people not to leave northern Gaza this weekend after Israel warned it was going to bomb.

Even Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas has called out Hamas. “We are the losing side, and every minute there are more and more unnecessary deaths,” Mr. Abbas said in an interview on Lebanese television. “I don’t like trading in Palestinian blood.” (In response, Hamas called him a criminal.)

**Israel tries to minimize civilian deaths by warning people in advance of a strike, either with a telephone call or a harmless missile (known as a “knock on the roof”). These tactics don’t always work. **A few days ago, the IDF mistakenly bombed a home for the disabled, whose residents were unable to flee despite the warning. Advance warnings also fail because instead of running away from the scene, some people rush to it. They hope their presence might deter an attack. Either it works or they become martyrs.

Earlier this month, the IDF targeted a compound in Khan Younis that was allegedly a headquarters for leading Hamas bad guys. They made a phone call warning noncombatants to get out. They also sent a knock-knock missile. But instead of leaving, people rushed in and headed to the roof to form a human shield. Eight noncombatants died, including several children. The IDF called it a “tragic mistake,” noting that by the time the people were spotted on the roof, the missile was already in the air.

Hamas openly encourages civilians to act as human shields. Here’s what Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri had to say recently on Al-Aqsa TV (via the Middle East Media Research Institute): “This attests to the character of our noble, jihad-fighting people, who defend their rights and their homes with their bare chests and their blood … We in Hamas call upon our people to adopt this policy in order to protect the Palestinian homes.”

The willingness to sacrifice Palestinian children has served Hamas well. Rights groups have condemned the advanced-warning efforts as just another version of collective punishment. “There is no way that firing a missile at a civilian home can constitute an effective ‘warning,’ ” said Amnesty International’s Philip Luther. United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay says there is “serious doubt” that Israel is complying with international human-rights law.

In the greater bloodbath that has engulfed the Middle East, this doesn’t add up to much. It will probably be over soon, and things will quiet down until next time. And there will be a next time – the younger generation of Israelis isn’t all that interested in peace. Nor are the kids on the other side. As one boy said on Palestinian TV, “We love the resistance. We want to die as martyrs. Long live the martyrs.”

theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/human-shields-are-hamass-pr/article19602451/

 

[TheAdvocate]

What seems strange to me is the fact that the ratio of civilians being killed is higher than those of actual Hamas combatants. What about just war theory?

From the CCC:

¶2307: “The use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.”

Where is the proportionality? 80% of those killed are civilians! telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10967279/UN-80-per-cent-of-Palestinians-killed-in-Israeli-offensive-are-civilians.html
Couple that with the fact that the vast, vast majority of the rockets being fired into Israel are intercepted, and that gives you a clearer picture of the disproportionality of the response.

P.S.: and by the way, I am not defending Hamas. Obviously their intent is entirely disproportionate: “wherever our rockets land…good!”

 

[josie_L]

What seems strange to me is the fact that the ratio of civilians being killed is higher than those of actual Hamas combatants. What about just war theory?

From the CCC:

¶2307: “The use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.”

Where is the proportionality? 80% of those killed are civilians! telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10967279/UN-80-per-cent-of-Palestinians-killed-in-Israeli-offensive-are-civilians.html
Couple that with the fact that the vast, vast majority of the rockets being fired into Israel are intercepted, and that gives you a clearer picture of the disproportionality of the response.

P.S.: and by the way, I am not defending Hamas. Obviously their intent is entirely disproportionate: “wherever our rockets land…good!”

I hope this conflict ends soon, but I don’t doubt that another one will be started by Hamas in the near future.

P.S. More people conflicts will arise because there will be no attempt by Hamas to quell their violent rhetoric or actions.

 

[GaryTaylor]

"I met today with a Spanish journalist who just came back from Gaza. We talked about the situation there. He was very friendly. I asked him how comes we never see on television channels reporting from Gaza any Hamas people, no gunmen, no rocket launcher, no policemen… We only see civilians on these reports, mostly women and children.

He answered me frankly: “It’s very simple, we did see Hamas people there launching rockets, they were close to our hotel, but if ever we dared pointing our camera on them they would simply shoot at us and kill us.”

Wooh, impressive. Then I asked him “would you mind saying that on camera? I can film you explaining this…”

For some reason I cannot really understand he refused and almost ran away. I guess my camera is as dangerous as Hamas threats…

So just for you to know, the truth will never appear on the images you see on television.

If they were responsible, for every report from Gaza, the anchor introducing the segment should say:

“Our viewers should be aware that the Hamas leadership in Gaza and terror groups operating there threaten journalists both implicitly and explicitly. We care for the safety of our reporters and staff and are not requiring that their reports be as even-handed as we would like.”

They would also take pains to have their reporters in Gaza be replaced with new ones every week or so, and have the old ones go in front of the cameras and then report what they really saw, and how they were intimidated and manipulated.

Because without doing that, the media is losing what little trust they still have in their reporting."

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Felderofziyon.blogspot.com%2F2014%2F07%2Fspanish-journalist-off-record-explains.html&ei=ieHfU8f-FI__8AHNmoGwAw&usg=AFQjCNG9QlGiboOpcGBKgv_NFUEwNfT3ag

Out of #Gaza far from #Hamas retaliation: misfired rocket killed children yday in Shati. Witness: militants rushed and cleared debris

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDYQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jewishpress.com%2Fnews%2Fbreaking-news%2Fsafe-from-hamas-italian-reporter-reveals-the-truth-about-gaza%2F2014%2F07%2F30%2F&ei=ieHfU8f-FI__8AHNmoGwAw&usg=AFQjCNEPozzCkTIYi3R2FsrlauJMila5Ew

 

[TheAdvocate]

You have a misunderstanding of both the population and the geography. There are many areas of Gaza which are agricultural, about 1/3 is under irrigation so there is at least that much land from which Hamas can fire rockets. Here is a link to a page with a population density map of Gaza. You can see that the population is not all over Gaza but concentrated into towns and cities.

Here is a map of Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank. You can see Gaza in the southwest corner of Israel (lower left-hand corner along the coast). Over to the right, or east, on the map, you will see a large dark area which is the West Bank (it is the west bank of the Jordan River.). Since the West Bank is so far and separate from Gaza, removing Jewsih settlers from there would not help Hamas find less-dangerous places from which to launch, not that they need help with this since they have a lot of unpopulated fields from which to launch.

Under international law, defending victors are allowed to keep the land acquired, but Israel has been continually asked to give the land back.

If Israel laid down her arms, it would be overrun and the Jews killed. If the Palestinians laid down their arms, their situation would improve, as shown by the fact that Palestinians in Israel have full citizenship rights.

Full citizenship rights? Nope. Even the Israeli Arabs are treated as second-class citizens:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8165338.stm

 

[GaryTaylor]

Full citizenship rights? Nope. Even the Israeli Arabs are treated as second-class citizens:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8165338.stm

“Those who remained within what became Israel, and their descendants, have been granted citizenship” Above link.

“The Israeli government says Israeli Arabs are citizens with equal rights”

 

[TheAdvocate]

“Those who remained within what became Israel, and their descendants, have been granted citizenship” Above link.

“The Israeli government says Israeli Arabs are citizens with equal rights”

Yes, that’s what they say, but what is actually practiced is a different thing. Please read the rest of the article, and don’t just cherry pick the areas that support your position.

Are we really to take as a fact whatever a government says? Really? Whoa…

 

[GaryTaylor]

Yes, that’s what they say, but what is actually practiced is a different thing. Please read the rest of the article, and don’t just cherry pick the areas that support your position.

Are we really to take as a fact whatever a government says? Really? Whoa…

I’m sorry you are assuming and wrong.

I did read it, the moral equivalence is indicative of a middle eastern country? No non arab non-muslim citizens are treated with equal rights in terrorist countries. The idea of equal rights in the US has been illusive itself a very long time. And of course we know precisely what the Hamas doctrine states about the Jews and what in fact was stated by them today. Praise for killing Jews!!! .

Hows that moral equivalence? No Bibles, selective reading material, persecution, tax or death and so forth. We should be protesting terrorism everywhere. Not those fighting against it.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Are we really to take as a fact whatever a government says? Really? Whoa…

I would answer in the affirmative, for sure you can take this seriously…

Hamas’ covenant calls for the destruction of Israel. The preamble reads: “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.” Article Three describes the duty of all Muslims: “(To) fear Allah and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors.”

Article Seven states: “The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: ‘O Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.’”

Article Eleven clarifies their belief that “the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waif (Holy Possession) consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.”

Article Thirteen flatly states: “Palestine is an Islamic land. … Since this is the case, the liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Muslim wherever he may be.” It also says, “There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad.”

Any doubt about how committed Hamas is to Israel’s destruction?

Prime Minister Meir also said this: “When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons.”

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhumanevents.com%2F2014%2F07%2F24%2Fwhy-there-can-never-be-peace-in-the-middle-east%2F&ei=7_HfU5aYKcPR8AHS2oHIAw&usg=AFQjCNHL3yVaOQiAWeCZrG-aN40AEyP4kg

 

[St_Francis]

You probably won’t take this seriously; being as it’s from an Israeli blog, but fwiw, there it is.

And, much as I despise Bill Maher, here’s his take on the subject.