Israel & russia

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SAVINGRACE

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"Israel and Russia are acting like two lions on the African savanna. One, the younger one, rules the territory. He is used to walking around freely and doing almost anything he pleases without disturbance. Suddenly another lion appears on the scene, more mature, stronger, far more powerful. The two lions warily eye one another. Neither wants to get involved in a squabble that might inflict harm. The territory is large enough for them both, and their interests are not necessarily incompatible. They decide on a “cold peace” kind of coexistence involving a certain amount of coordination in the joint territory. What we see now is how these two lions circle each other, checking out the other’s alertness and vigilance, sniffing, setting out boundaries, checking each other’s responses, trying to determine the rules of the game.

This is how a Western diplomat stationed in the Middle East and speaking on condition of anonymity described what is going on between Israel and Russia regarding events in Syria. According to foreign reports, on Oct. 30 the Israeli air force attacked Syrian army and Hezbollah targets on Syrian territory. Over the last two weeks, the Russians are regularly striking rebel targets throughout Syria. Some of these strikes take place in the Syrian Golan Heights, not far from the Israeli border. One of the attacks almost reached the border zone; it took place in the Daraa region, about six miles from the border between Israel and Syria. Russia is using these airstrikes to test Israel’s nerves. Israeli policy is clear: Its air force intercepts every plane or aerial object that reaches Israel’s border line, without asking too many questions. What will happen if Russian fighter planes accidentally cross this line? No one in the Israel Defense Forces is willing to answer this question."

Read more: al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/11/lions-israel-russia-vladimir-putin-syria-fire-border.html#ixzz3tLxJeLuH
 
Debka File is saying the same thing, but more emphatically:

*Israel extremely nervous over Russian operations on its Golan border

… In particular, Moscow may be giving Hizballah and Iran an umbrella for achieving their longstanding design to displace the Syrian rebels with Revolutionary Guards and Hizballah forces and deploy them along Israel’s Golan border.

This suspicion gained ground when Tuesday, Dec. 1, the day after the Putin-Netanyahu encounter, the combined Iranian-Syrian-Hizballah units expanded their thrust from the southern Syrian town of Deraa to the Golan town of Quneitra, within sight of Israel’s defense positions.

All that day, heavy battles raged over the rebel-held line of hills running from a point just south of Quneitra to the Israeli-Syrian-Jordanian border junction. The combined force was supported by Russian air strikes and heavy tanks and artillery, seen for the first time in this war arena.

When the fighting resumed Wednesday, the IDF placed its Golan units on high alert and an extra-vigilant eye was trained on this battle. …*

debka.com/article/25052/Israel-extremely-nervous-over-Russian-operations-on-its-Golan-border
 
Funnily enough I heard it the other way around today, on a TV show. 🤷

The reporter was saying that Israel and Russia are on the same side with the Syrian conflict, as Israel is more afraid of Iraq, and recognise that if Syria is defeated by ISIS then Israel have a big problem, on their doorstep.

The fact Russia is taking ISIS out - as Russia does not want any more terrorist attacks on its’ soil - but also enabling Assad to remain until the dust has settled, is in Israel’s favour. If Assad’s taken out now (aside from the fact that most Syrians support him), then it will be a free for all - and ISIS will most likely take over Syria, or an IS- supporting proxy put in place.
 
I wouldn’t even begin to pretend I understood anything in the middle east!
 
BartholomewB said:
Did you look at the date on that “Cosy up” article in The Economist? It’s over two months old!

No doubt it was true at the time, but alliances in the Middle East are shifting sands.
Click to expand...
More like grains of sand in a sandstorm!
 
Fighter pilots will have to refrain from “pushing limits” but, if they must fly a larger turn they should be afforded that need in this effort to eliminate the cockroaches. Israel & Russia do not have JV team pilots - if they were targeting into another country - it would be obvious.
Russia and the U.S. have had many instances of “straying” out of necessity or for “fun”, and it gets a little tiresome sometime BUT if you know what you are doing and you do it the best it can be done, you can handle it. These are pilots that are not beginners.
 
It always surprises me. Most religions have a glorious hereafter for its believers, yet when the tragedy of war results in a premature entry into that afterlife, everyone is horrified. God knows his own.

This is just my observation, in no way meant to be a judgement…
 
pepipop said:
The reporter was saying that Israel and Russia are on the same side with the Syrian conflict, as Israel is more afraid of Iraq, and recognise that if Syria is defeated by ISIS then Israel have a big problem, on their doorstep.

The fact Russia is taking ISIS out - as Russia does not want any more terrorist attacks on its’ soil - but also enabling Assad to remain until the dust has settled, is in Israel’s favour. If Assad’s taken out now (aside from the fact that most Syrians support him), then it will be a free for all - and ISIS will most likely take over Syria, or an IS- supporting proxy put in place.
Click to expand...
I don’t know why Israel would be more afraid of hopelessly fractured Iraq than it would be of Iran. Israel has a tough situation. Iran will probably continue, with Russian help, to keep Assad in power. If not him, some other Alawite dictator. On one hand, Israel could prefer a fairly independent Alawite dictator because that dictator would have his hands full suppressing the Sunni majority forever, and couldn’t afford a war against Israel any more than Assad could before ISIS.

But Iran/Hezbollah/Assad might, with Russian help, put together a formidable force, chase the remaining Sunni out of Syria (half are gone now) and then turn their attention to Israel.

Israel’s real, if cynical, interest probably is in the Iran/ISIS conflict going on indefinitely.

Another possibly favorable scenario for Israel would be the creation of a Russian/Alawite rump state (de facto) with good relations with Iran but with separate interests. One thing Russia will not do is go to full blown war with Israel.
 
BartholomewB said:
Did you look at the date on that “Cosy up” article in The Economist? It’s over two months old!

No doubt it was true at the time, but alliances in the Middle East are shifting sands.
Click to expand...
how can you prove this article wrong?
 
Meanwhile the Elder Pais, the Greek Saint , comes in a vision to some Russian monks and prophecies the conquer of Constantinople. He predicts The Beginning of the Apocalipsis will start from Ukraine. And comforts the Russians that Russia will win on the end.
goo.gl/vjWSSH
The Jewish communities also remembered the prophecies of the Vilna Gaon: “When you hear that the Russians have captured the city of Crimea, the ‘Times of the Messiah’ have started, that his steps are being heard”
goo.gl/N5Lp0j
It seems that the prophecies for Russians and the Jews sounds optimistic.
I see that such information about visions of Greek saint is not dumped in social networks by common people but by associate professors and religious scholars, I do not even know what to think of these ‘‘peacemakers’’ and their message.
 
Isn’t this description how every country deals with Russia? =P

-Teneth
 
Quick side question related to this issue I’ve been wanting to ask for a while, but have been too shy to ask from my Baptist in-laws. Does anyone know, briefly, how dispensationalists view Russia’s role in the end-times vis-a-vis Israel? Is there evidence this view has evolved over time? It’s not my intention to carry on about the topic, I just need some brief context for when these things come up on the news at their house. I’ll start a different thread if it’s too convoluted.
 
The major existential threat to Israel at the moment is an Iran on the cusp of nuclear power, and its proxy in the Levant, Hezbollah, who willingly does Iran’s dirty work.

It is the fact of that existential threat that leads conspiracy theorists to conjecture that Israel is behind the creation of ISIS.

Be that as it may, the fact that Russia has come out in support of Assad, and therefore in support of the Iranian and Hizbollah ally and middle man, means that the goals of Israel and of Russia are at odds at the moment.

It is not a battle of good vs evil for them, for the goals of both Russia and Israel are rational enough and commendable enough in their own way.
But there are actors in the ME whose goals are genocidal. Iran and Hizbollah are genocidal in their goals against Israel, and ISIS is genocidal in its goals against Christians and Yazidis, and virtually anyone else.

The balance of power in the ME has been dependant on the ability of state in the region to direct one force of evil against another force of evil, lest the evil unites against the state. The status of the ME has devolved in recent years in such a way that the number of truly evil regimes and powers in the region have led to any number of combinations and permutations of how evil can be played against itself.

The relation between Israel and Russia today is not one of animosity, but one of two states who have opted for a different permutation in order to reach their goals.
 
Crusaderbear said:
I wouldn’t even begin to pretend I understood anything in the middle east!
Click to expand...
Well no wonder when descriptions like the following are given:

"“Israel and Russia are acting like two lions on the African savanna. One, the younger one, rules the territory. He is used to walking around freely and doing almost anything he pleases without disturbance. Suddenly another lion appears on the scene, more mature, stronger, far more powerful.”

It seems to me that hyena, coyote or even maybe a weasel are more apt descriptions for one of those lions …
even a fox isn’t quite apt imho. :rolleyes:

rex
 
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