Israeli rabbi opposes beatification of Nazi-era pope

[katy]

The Spanish Inquisition involved 140 thousand Jews and brought to an end over one thousand years of Jews living in the Iberian peninsula.

Not sure what you mean here. Jews were not actually an interest of the Spanish Inquisition. They were interested in internal problems, such as Jewish or Muslim people who pretended to be Christian, or Christians who engaged in some reported egregious conduct. My understanding is that later there was a concerted effort to expel, not kill, all non-Christians in a belief that the monarchy was safer that way.Non-Christians at the time were considered politically suspect and possibly in common effort against the king and queen. The point being that not 140 thousand Jews ( nor 140 thousand anybody else) were actually killed.

 

[Valke2]

There was also a Holocaust of the christians back in the day…thousands were slaughtered and were fingerpointed as such to be killed. Those very same christians were catholics who were fed to the lions, burnst alive, torn limb by limb, cooked in oil, and many untold atrocities.

How many? There was no census to count them all… There were herded in the many areas, like the Collisseum. Any who helped save them were also killed. Does this sound familiar?

Many Jews themselves were killing christians, and the christians (catholics0 were hated by the Jews as much as by the Romans. Sound familiar?

THere’s very little evidence to support the belief that jews viciously persecuted christians to any great degree. And I think we can agree that there’s no merit to compare jewish persecutionm of early chrisitians to the holocaust.

 

[chosen_people]

Not sure what you mean here. Jews were not actually an interest of the Spanish Inquisition. They were interested in internal problems, such as Jewish or Muslim people who pretended to be Christian, or Christians who engaged in some reported egregious conduct. My understanding is that later there was a concerted effort to expel, not kill, all non-Christians in a belief that the monarchy was safer that way.Non-Christians at the time were considered politically suspect and possibly in common effort against the king and queen. The point being that not 140 thousand Jews ( nor 140 thousand anybody else) were actually killed.

You are absolutely correct. All Jews in the Iberian peninsula were expelled. Many were tortured or forced to convert and “some” of them met their deaths by torture and murder. However, I used the word “involved” not “murder” concerning these 140 thousand Jews. The example of the Spanish Inquisition was given with other examples of wide spread persecution and death being differentiated from “the holocaust”. I fear you missed my point.

 

[Bennie_P]

The beatification or non beatification of Pius XII is not the issue.

The holocaust was indeed a unique horror. Loyal citizens of a country making great contributions to that society and to the world were declared enemies of the state and systematically murdered for the crime of “being Jewish”. With German military expansion it was extended to the eradication of all of European Jewry.

The mass murder of one third of world Jewry in such a short period of time was only possible because of the co-operation of the entire Christian Western world. It required countries like the United States, Canada and England to hermetically seal their borders to all Jews. It required the allied powers who were systematically bombing any and all targets, military or civilian, to refuse a single bomb or a single mission to put Auschwitz and its rail lines out of commission and it required World leaders, like Pius XII to keep silent.

The indisputable fact is that Pius XII despite ample opportunities did not once make the simple clear declaration that the persecution and murder of the Jews was to be condemned. In fact he did not in any of his speeches specifically and directly refer to the Jews and the acts against them. That silence was an immoral act.It cannot be justified by self interest or cowardice. It can not be justified by arguing the saving of such and such a number of Jews when had vocal condemnation been given by Pius and others it may have led to the saving of many more.

Indeed the beatification of Pius XII is an internal Catholic issue. Were I a Catholic and had Pius XII been my moral guide post I would have expected then and expected now so much more.

You may expect too much of a mere man… but many Jewish Leaders that lived during that time thought more highly of Pius XII

THE GOOD SAMARITAN: JEWISH PRAISE FOR POPE PIUS XII

In praising Cardinal Pacelli’s election, the Jewish Chronicle in London on March 10, quoted an anti-Nazi speech he delivered in Lourdes in April 1935 and the hostile statements expressed about him in the Nazi press. “It is interesting to recall… on January 22 [1939], the Voelkischer Beobachter published pictures of Cardinal Pacelli and other Church dignitaries beneath a collective heading of 'Agitators in the Vatican against Fascism and National Socialism,”’ the Jewish Chronicle noted.
Also on March 10, the Canadian Jewish Chronicle commended the College of Cardinals for resisting Nazi attempts to influence the election and prevent Cardinal Pacelli from becoming Pope. “The plot to pilfer the Ring of Fisherman has gone up in white smoke,” the editorial quipped.
Many Jewish organizations also expressed their enthusiasm for the new Pope. According to the Jewish Chronicle in London (March 10), the Vatican received congratulatory messages from “the Anglo-Jewish Community, the Synagogue Council of America, the Canadian Jewish Congress, and the Polish Rabbinical Council.”
Pius XII’s decision to appoint Luigi Cardinal Maglione as the Vatican’s new Secretary of State also brought favorable reactions. The March 16, 1939 Zionist Review in London said that the Cardinal’s appointment “confirms the view that the new Pope means to conduct an anti-Nazi and anti-Fascist policy.”

Of course this is from a Catholic source but quoted sources from the piece can be researched… Shalom - "L’shana ha-ba-ah b’yerushalayim"

 

[chosen_people]

You may expect too much of a mere man… but many Jewish Leaders that lived during that time thought more highly of Pius XII

THE GOOD SAMARITAN: JEWISH PRAISE FOR POPE PIUS XII

Of course this is from a Catholic source but quoted sources from the piece can be researched… Shalom - "L’shana ha-ba-ah b’yerushalayim"

The quotes are from before the beginning of the implementation of the final solution against the Jews. Today we do not offer “hope” as to possible behavior but look in retrospect to past events and past actions.

 

[Bennie_P]

The quotes are from before the beginning of the implementation of the final solution against the Jews. Today we do not offer “hope” as to possible behavior but look in retrospect to past events and past actions.

You didn’t read the whole article did you?

I gave the link so you could read about the hope, the justification of that hope and confimation of that hope.

Though many Christians failed in understanding the responsibility of their faith and how it is tied to Israel, the Jewish faith and the Jewish people the leadership of Pope Pius XII was not the weak point, nor the cause of that failure.

Pope Pius XII died on October 8, 1958. Many Jewish organizations and newspapers around the world mourned his passing, and recalled his wartime efforts to rescue Jews. At the United Nations, Golda Meir, Israel’s Foreign Minister, said, “When fearful martyrdom came to our people in the decade of Nazi terror, the voice of the Pope was raised for the victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out on the great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict.” The Zionist Record (October 17) in South Africa published Meir’s moving eulogy along with tributes from Jewish organizations to the late Pope.
“Adherents of all creeds and parties will recall how Pius XII faced the responsibilities of his exalted office with courage and devotion,” declared the Jewish Chronicle in London on October 10. “Before, during, and after the Second World War, he constantly preached the message of peace. Confronted by the monstrous cruelties of Nazism, Fascism, and Communism, he repeatedly proclaimed the virtues of humanity and compassion.”
In the Canadian Jewish Chronicle (October 17), Rabbi J. Stern recalled that Pius XII “made it possible for thousands of Jewish victims of Nazism and Fascism to be hidden away…” In the November 6 edition of the Jewish Post in Winnipeg, William Zukerman, the former American Hebrew columnist, wrote that no other leader “did more to help the Jews in their hour of greatest tragedy, during the Nazi occupation of Europe, than the late Pope.”
Representatives of the World Jewish Congress, American Jewish Congress, American Jewish Committee, Synagogue Council of America, New York Board of Rabbis, the Anti-Defamation League, Massachusetts Board of Rabbis, Rabbinical Council of America, National Council of Jewish Women, and the Union of American Hebrew Congregations also gracefully eulogized Pope Pius XII. The Chief Rabbis of London, Rome, Jerusalem, France, Egypt, Argentina and many other Jewish newspapers also paid tribute to the late Pope.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

The quotes are from before the beginning of the implementation of the final solution against the Jews.** Today we do not offer “hope” as to possible behavior but look in retrospect to past events and past actions**.

Bolding mine

Would you not say this is rather pessimistic?
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[chosen_people]

Bolding mine

Would you not say this is rather pessimistic?
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

I fear you have taken me out of context. The poster had referred to quotes by others concerning Pius XII in the thirties and then at the time of his death. My reply was given in light of these quotes.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

OK
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B