Israelis fired on girl identified as 10-year old (w/tape)

[St.James]

Israelis fired on girl ‘having identified her as a 10-year-old’, military tape shows By Donald Macintyre in Jerusalem

24 November 2004 Israeli soldiers continued firing at a Palestinian girl killed in Gaza last month well after she had been identified as a frightened child, a military communications tape has revealed.

The tape is likely to be crucial in the prosecution case against the men’s company commander, who faces five charges arising from the killing of Iman al-Hams, 13, in the southern border town of Rafah on 6 October.

It shows that troops firing with light weapons and machine guns on a figure moving in a “no entry zone” close to an army outpost near the border with Egypt had swiftly discovered that she was a girl.

In the recorded exchanges someone in the operations room asks: “Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?” The observation post, housed in a watchtower, replies: “It’s a little girl. She’s running defensively eastwards, a girl of about 10. She’s behind the embankment, scared to death.”

Not until four minutes later was it reported that the girl had been hit and had fallen. The observation post reports: “Receive, I think that one of the positions took her out.” … Operations room: “What, she fell?” Observation post: “She’s not moving right now.”

The tape records the commander as telling his men, after firing at the girl with an automatic weapon and declaring he has “confirmed” the killing: “Anyone who’s mobile, moving in the zone, even if it’s a three-year-old, needs to be killed.”

Full article accompanied with video footage:

informationclearinghouse…article7363.htm

 

[gilliam]

This is what I posted on another thread he posted this to:

I am glad you posted this. This shows the difference between the two countries. The commander is now being prosecuted for murder. Not given money by the Palestinian goverment like the Palestinian terrorists are. That is the difference between Israel and the PA.

 

[St.James]

When a crime is as outrageous and well documented as this one is it’s rather difficult not to have to prosecute it.

This is by no means an isolated occurrence.

In any case, you have now been given a most clear opportunity to make good on your questionable claim that you “speak out when Israel is wrong.”

gilliam:

I will speak out when I think Israel does wrong.

Any comments?

 

[gilliam]

St. James:

When a crime is as outrageous and well documented as this one is it’s rather difficult not to have to prosecute it.

This is by no means an isolated occurrence.

In any case, you have now been given a most clear opportunity to make good on your questionable claim that you “speak out when Israel is wrong.”

Any comments?

I commented on the other thread you posted this on. Go here:

 

[St.James]

gilliam:

Israel is in the right, they are prosecuting the crime. I’ll say the PA is right if and when they prosecute a similar crime. Have they?
-gilliam

gilliam, all I can say is, thank you. Thank you for providing me with such a clear picture of the Zionist mentality.

You have been presented with evidence that an Israeli soldier shot and killed a girl identified as 10-years old and “frightened to death;” that an Israeli Army Commander “confirmed the kill” by emptying the magazine of his weapon into the body of that possibly still living girl and instructed his men that, “Anyone who’s mobile, moving in the zone, even if it’s a three-year-old, needs to be killed,” and then falsified the official account of the incident, and your response is praise for Israel’s handling of the matter accompanied by a completely unrelated jab at the Palestinian Authority?

Thank you gilliam. Thank you for providing such a clear example of why Zionism and Catholicism are completely irreconcilable, as if that even needs to be demonstrated. Sadly, at this forum, it does.

 

[gilliam]

St. James:

gilliam, all I can say is, thank you. Thank you for providing me with such a clear picture of the Zionist mentality.

You have been presented with evidence that an Israeli soldier shot and killed a girl identified as 10-years old and “frightened to death;” that an Israeli Army Commander “confirmed the kill” by emptying the magazine of his weapon into the body of that possibly still living girl and instructed his men that, “Anyone who’s mobile, moving in the zone, even if it’s a three-year-old, needs to be killed,” and then falsified the official account of the incident, and your response is praise for Israel’s handling of the matter accompanied by a completely unrelated jab at the Palestinian Authority?

Thank you gilliam. Thank you for providing such a clear example of why Zionism and Catholicism are completely irreconcilable, as if that even needs to be demonstrated. Sadly, at this forum, it does.

And the commander is being prosecuted, what am I missing?
Isn’t that what you would want to happen?

I wasn’t jabbing the PA. I said that what Israel was doing was right in prosecuting the commander and if the PA had something similiar happen and prosecuted their person, I would say they were right too. Then I asked a question: Has the PA prosecuted a similar crime? I don’t know, have they?

 

[St.James]

gilliam:

And the commander is being prosecuted, what am I missing?

Israelis fired on girl 'having identified her as a 10-year-old’

---

 

[gilliam]

Israelis fired on girl 'having identified her as a 10-year-old’

Yes, and the guy responsible is being tried for his crimes!

What do you want to happen???

 

[gilliam]

By the way, I’m not a Zionist. I am an American Catholic. I only am loyal to one country, the USA.

 

[St.James]

gilliam:

Yes, and the guy responsible is being tried for his crimes!

The “guy responsible,” as you put it, is an Israeli Army Commander. It interests me that a “guy” capable of unloading his weapon at close range into a girl identified as 10-years old and scared to death can be promoted to the position of Israeli Army Commander. It seems that, to you, this isn’t worth commenting on. It must be a Zionist thing.

In any case, the Israeli Army Commander who so thorougly killed that 13-year old girl commited that attrocity as a high ranking official–a representative–of the Israeli state.

gilliam:

What do you want to happen???

Make good on your as of yet unfounded claim.

gilliam:

I will speak out when I think Israel does wrong.

 

[gilliam]

St. James:

The “guy responsible,” as you put it, is an Israeli Army Commander. It interests me that a “guy” capable of unloading his weapon at close range into a girl identified as 10-years old and scared to death can be promoted to the position of Israeli Army Commander. It seems that, to you, this isn’t worth commenting on. It must be a Zionist thing.

In any case, the Israeli Army Commander who so thorougly killed that 13-year old girl commited that attrocity as a high ranking official–a representative–of the Israeli state.

Make good on your as of yet unfounded claim.

Look, Israel is doing the right thing, so I have no reason to condem them. They are trying the guy for his crimes. If they were hiding him and some other country had to grab him and try him, that would be an all together different thing and the state of Israel would be at fault. But in this case he is being tried for his crimes by the state of Israel.

What Israel is doing is the right thing, they are trying someone for crimes they commit. That is the kind of thing we do in free countries. We put people on trial when they do something wrong.

Again, if the PA did something similar and arrested someone who did something similar and tried them, I would defend the PA for that act as well. That is what we do in civilized countries.

I am repeating myself, and so are you. I am sure we are boring everyone else.

Would you mind telling me what country you are from? It might help the conversation, that way I know where you are coming from with your ideas.

Are you Roman Catholic?

 

[NightRider]

St James, thank you for posting this thread. Here is another example of what is really going on in Israel, to the Palestinians. And this is only one example. So many more occur and are not prosecuted. It is simply abominable, and many believe it is genocide of the Palestinians. Every Palestinian I have known, and I know many, have had murders in their own families at the hands of the Israeli military. Simply put, it is intolerable. So thank you for putting this out here and God bless you.

 

[St.James]

gilliam:

Would you mind telling me what country you are from? It might help the conversation, that way I know where you are coming from with your ideas.

Are you Roman Catholic?

What on earth does what country I come from have to do with anything? I am a rational person who is outraged by the atrocity committed by this Israeli Army Commander.

You have nothing to say about this atrocity other than spinning it as a positive for Israel. This is Roman Catholic thinking? Not as I understand it.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

I am just sad that people kill each other in the first place:crying: I am also sad that name calling is going on the zionist thing is not going to get your point through.And I can understand the frustraition of the Palestinians as well as the Isrealies, and I must mention here that we didn’t exactly treat the american Indians right when we came here either.That being said, until we recognise all people as children of God and pray for them, this kind of thing will continue.God Bless and be nice you guys

 

[NightRider]

Lisa4Catholics:

I am just sad that people kill each other in the first place:crying: I am also sad that name calling is going on the zionist thing is not going to get your point through.And I can understand the frustraition of the Palestinians as well as the Isrealies, and I must mention here that we didn’t exactly treat the american Indians right when we came here either.That being said, until we recognise all people as children of God and pray for them, this kind of thing will continue.God Bless and be nice you guys

Well said, Lisa4Catholics! I think you hit the nail right on its head! Thank you, because it really is most important that we recognize all people as children of God and pray for them, because this is what Our Lord wants us to do! We just need to be reminded often! God bless you, dear!

 

[Jeffrey]

And just as many if not more Isrealies have been killed by the terrorist Palestinians. Nice try.

NightRider:

St James, thank you for posting this thread. Here is another example of what is really going on in Israel, to the Palestinians. And this is only one example. So many more occur and are not prosecuted. It is simply abominable, and many believe it is genocide of the Palestinians. Every Palestinian I have known, and I know many, have had murders in their own families at the hands of the Israeli military. Simply put, it is intolerable. So thank you for putting this out here and God bless you.

 

[TheGarg]

St. James:

The “guy responsible,” as you put it, is an Israeli Army Commander. It interests me that a “guy” capable of unloading his weapon at close range into a girl identified as 10-years old and scared to death can be promoted to the position of Israeli Army Commander. It seems that, to you, this isn’t worth commenting on. It must be a Zionist thing.

In any case, the Israeli Army Commander who so thorougly killed that 13-year old girl commited that attrocity as a high ranking official–a representative–of the Israeli state.

Make good on your as of yet unfounded claim.

St. James, you need to stop playing word games and trying to start fires. It is your type of reasoning that gives us such things as bigotry and such.
YOU are implying that ALL of Isreal, or Isreal itself is bad or guilty, due to the horrific action or ONE. If this is not what you wanted to imply, then be more spefic, because this IS what YOU are implying.

Peace of the Lord be to All

 

[TheGarg]

NightRider:

St James, thank you for posting this thread. Here is another example of what is really going on in Israel, to the Palestinians. And this is only one example. So many more occur and are not prosecuted. It is simply abominable, and many believe it is genocide of the Palestinians. Every Palestinian I have known, and I know many, have had murders in their own families at the hands of the Israeli military. Simply put, it is intolerable. So thank you for putting this out here and God bless you.

You sound just Like a liberal who thinks the USA is bad for killing as few civilians as possible, instead of placing your anger on the cowardly insurgents who hide among women and children.

The Palestinians are just as guilty of atrocity, and do not forget that. Both sides need to divert from their vengeful ways…

Peace of the Lord be to all

 

[gilliam]

St. James:

What on earth does what country I come from have to do with anything? I am a rational person who is outraged by the atrocity committed by this Israeli Army Commander.

You have nothing to say about this atrocity other than spinning it as a positive for Israel. This is Roman Catholic thinking? Not as I understand it.

What do you want me to say. The guy is a criminal, the State of Israel recognizes that and he is getting punished for what he did. This is not an example of state sponsored terrorism.

I wish the PA would do the same with the terrorists who blow up innocent children on busses and at shopping centers, but instead they make them into heroes. The PA supports terrorist organizations who directly support the terrorists themselves. This is an example of state sponsored terrorism.

There is a distinct difference between the two entities, and I am very sorry you cannot see the difference. Until the PA abandons the evil of state sponsored terrorism, they will not get my support.

 

[St.James]

Jeffrey:

And just as many if not more Isrealies have been killed by the terrorist Palestinians. Nice try.

This statement is false. Even the Israelis acknowledge that they are killing Palestinians, particularly Palestinian children, in disproportionate numbers to Israelis killed by Palestinian terrorists.

Killing Children is no longer a big deal

Gideon Levy
Haaretz Oct. 17, 2004
"The plain fact, which must be stated clearly, is that the blood of hundreds of Palestinian children is on our hands."

More than 30 Palestinian children were killed in the first two weeks of Operation Days of Penitence in the Gaza Strip (beginning September 30, 2004). It’s no wonder that many people term such wholesale killing of children “terror.” Whereas in the overall count of all the victims of the intifada the ratio is three Palestinians killed for every Israeli killed, when it comes to children the ratio is 5:1. According to B’Tselem, the human rights organization, even before the current operation in Gaza, 557 Palestinian minors (below the age of 18) were killed, compared to 110 Israeli minors.

Palestinian human rights groups speak of even higher numbers: 598 Palestinian children killed (up to age 17), according to the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, and 828 killed (up to age 18) according to the Red Crescent. Take note of the ages, too. According to B’Tselem, whose data are updated until about a month ago, 42 of the children who have been killed were 10; 20 were seven; and eight were two years old when they died. The youngest victims are 13 newborn infants who died at checkpoints during birth.

With horrific statistics like this, the question of who is a terrorist should have long since become very burdensome for every Israeli. Yet it is not on the public agenda. Child killers are always the Palestinians, the soldiers always only defend us and themselves, and the hell with the statistics.

The plain fact, which must be stated clearly, is that the blood of hundreds of Palestinian children is on our hands. No tortuous explanation by the IDF Spokesman’s Office or by the military correspondents about the dangers posed to soldiers by the children, and no dubious excuse by the public relations people in the Foreign Ministry about how the Palestinians are making use of children will change that fact. An army that kills so many children is an army with no restraints, an army that has lost its moral code.

As MK Ahmed Tibi (Hadash) said, in a particularly emotional speech in the Knesset, it is no longer possible to claim that all these children were killed by mistake. An army doesn’t make more than 500 day-to-day mistakes of identity. No, this is not a mistake but the disastrous result of a policy driven mainly by an appallingly light trigger finger and by the dehumanization of the Palestinians.

Shooting at everything that moves, including children, has become normative behavior. Even the momentary mini-furor that erupted over the “confirming of the killing” of a 13-year-old girl, Iman Alhamas, did not revolve around the true question. The scandal should have been generated by the very act of the killing itself, not only by what followed.

Iman was not the only one. Mohammed Aaraj was eating a sandwich in front of his house, the last house before the cemetery of the Balata refugee camp, in Nablus, when a soldier shot him to death at fairly close range. He was six at the time of his death.

Kristen Saada was in her parents’ car, on the way home from a family visit, when soldiers sprayed the car with bullets. She was 12 at the time of her death. The brothers Jamil and Ahmed Abu Aziz were riding their bicycles in full daylight, on their way to buy sweets, when they sustained a direct hit from a shell fired by an Israeli tank crew. Jamil was 13, Ahmed six, at the time of their deaths.

Muatez Amudi and Subah Subah were killed by a soldier who was standing in the village square in Burkin and fired every which way in the wake of stone-throwing. Radir Mohammed from Khan Yunis refugee camp was in a school classroom when soldiers shot her to death. She was 12 when she died. All of them were innocent of wrongdoing and were killed by soldiers acting in our name.

At least in some of these cases it was clear to the soldiers that they were shooting at children, but that didn’t stop them. Palestinian children have no refuge: mortal danger lurks for them in their homes, in their schools and on their streets.

Not one of the hundreds of children who have been killed deserved to die, and the responsibility for their killing cannot remain anonymous. Thus the message is conveyed to the soldiers: it’s no tragedy to kill children and none of you is guilty.

Cont…