Israelis fired on girl identified as 10-year old (w/tape)

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St. James:
Khalid Amayreh, 8 December 2004
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Aljazeera is not an objective source for news. For example, after going through this entire diatribe, the last line of the article is: The army rejects the charges (of it being a show trial).

So, if you have proof of wrongdoing by the government, go to the Israeli courts and press your case, otherwise this is, like a lot of what Aljazeera puts out, propaganda.

Like I said to begin with, Israel has checks and balances, with a free press, and prosecutes criminals like this. The PA makes them heroes. There is a big difference between the two entities, and a Christian should be able to see the difference.
 
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gilliam:
Aljazeera is not an objective source for news. For example, after going through this entire diatribe, the last line of the article is: The army rejects the charges (of it being a show trial).

So, if you have proof of wrongdoing by the government, go to the Israeli courts and press your case, otherwise this is, like a lot of what Aljazeera puts out, propaganda.

Like I said to begin with, Israel has checks and balances, with a free press, and prosecutes criminals like this. The PA has none of these things and makes terrorists and brutes into heroes. There is a big difference between the two entities, and a Christian should be able to see the difference.
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St. James:
Oh I have, and there is evidence of much more. You won’t find it on Fox News though.

Yes, that “system” is called mock trials. In most cases it never even reaches that level, only when public outcry cannot be ignored.

Orthodox Jew, Baruch Goldstein, who entered a mosque with a machine gun and massacred 29 Muslims as they prayed is regarded as a hero in the Israeli state.

Always the double standard.
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Baruch Goldstein is not viewed as a hero in the Israeli state, St. James. This is an outright lie. The extremist settlers, whom most Israelis view with utter contempt, view him this way. The media demonizes Goldstein, and the government has prosecuted people who try to hold him up as an example. I might also add that Goldstein was one terrorist while the Palestinians have many and they truly are honored as martyrs.

You are so bent on demonizing Jews and their religion that you don’t care what the facts are.
 
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gilliam:
Goldstein is best known for having killed 29 Muslims during Friday prayers, February 25th, 1994, in the Cave of the Patriarchs, a Hebron site holy both to Muslims and Jews. After being subdued with a fire extinguisher, Goldstein was beaten to death by survivors. Goldstein left behind a widow and 4 children.

Rioting immediately following the massacre led to the deaths of another 26 Palestinians and 2 Israelis.

Testimony at the Israeli inquiry raised the possibility Goldstein had an accomplice - two Israeli army guards testified that a second settler entered Hebron’s Tomb of the Patriarchs on February 25th shortly after Goldstein, and that when Goldstein went into the tomb he was armed with a different gun from the Galil assault rifle found by his body. The second settler was carrying a Galil, they said. This testimony was never confirmed.

Goldstein’s actions were immediately condemned by the Israeli government, and the Israeli populace in general. Spokespeople for all the organized denominations of Judaism denounced his act as immoral and as terrorism. However, he became a hero to some Israeli right-wing extremists. Members of the outlawed Kach organization, to which he belonged, glorify his mass murder (claiming that he pre-empted the mass murder of Jews by Arabs), and sometimes hold celebrations at his tomb. His tombstone in Kiryat Arba reads:

Here lies the saint, Dr. Baruch Kappel Goldstein, blessed be the memory of the righteous and holy man, may the Lord avenge his blood, who devoted his soul to the Jews, Jewish religion and Jewish land. His hands are innocent and his heart is pure. He was killed as a martyr of God on the 14th of Adar, Purim, in the year 5754.

Most Israelis are repulsed by the glorification of this mass murderer. In 1998, a bill was passed in the Israeli Knesset that forbade the erection of monuments to terrorists; in 2000 a small shrine built around Goldstein’s tomb was demolished. At the time, it was also declared that a discussion of the inscription on his tombstone was pending but no revisions have yet been made (as of 2004).

from:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein
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Thank you, Gilliam, for that factual account, rather than Mr. St. James’ extremist anti-Jewish account.
 
Deaths of Palestinian children draw scrutiny of Israeli forces

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By Dion Nissenbaum
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Knight Ridder Newspapers
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JERUSALEM - The Israel Defense Forces, with a motto of “win and remain a human being,” likes to see itself as setting a moral standard for militaries around the world. But that self-image has been tarnished by recent incidents that have the country debating whether Israeli soldiers have behaved inhumanely.

First came the fatal shooting of a 13-year-old Gaza schoolgirl, who was cut down by wary soldiers when she came too close to a military outpost. Then came broadcast images, faintly reminiscent of America’s Abu Ghraib prison scandal in Iraq, showing smiling Israeli soldiers standing next to slain Palestinians.

That was soon followed by a video that reminded some Israelis a little too much of the Holocaust: a Palestinian musician playing his violin for soldiers at a West Bank checkpoint.

Israeli newspapers have been filled with articles, letters and editorials deploring the incidents. Haaretz declared a “death of innocence.” A Jerusalem Post editorial said the soldiers were “in a real sense, handing the terrorists a victory.”

In a time of relative calm after four years of a Palestinian uprising, the incidents have renewed soul-searching for the Jewish nation: Is this who we are? Is this what we’ve become?

“It’s touched a nerve,” said Jessica Montell, the executive director of B’Tselem, a leading Israeli human rights group. “What’s surprising is that whereas usually these kinds of things are treated as one bad seed, the case of the girl in Gaza has opened a Pandora’s box and unleashed a range of issues we have been dealing with for four years.”

The shooting of the Gazan teenager, Iman al Hams, has sparked the greatest outrage. Last month, an Israeli captain was charged with emptying his weapon into the schoolgirl to ensure that she was dead.

After initially being cleared of any wrongdoing, the captain came under fire from fellow soldiers who accused him of stepping over the line. Then a top Israeli news program aired tapes of the incident showing that the soldiers knew the suspicious figure was a girl who was “dying of fear.”

In an audiotape of radio transmissions, jittery soldiers can be heard describing the figure as a little girl running for cover after they fired warning shots. Four minutes later, the soldiers opened fire on the girl. The captain then can be heard saying, "Confirm the kill.

“Anyone who moves in the area, even if he’s 3 years old, must be killed,” the captain told soldiers over his radio.

The captain went to check on the girl, fired two shots from his M-16 into her head, then emptied his weapon, according to the indictment.

The impact of al Hams’ death grew with the broadcast of photos showing Israeli soldiers appearing to gloat over slain Palestinians. That was followed by the videotape of a Palestinian musician playing his violin so he could pass through a West Bank checkpoint…
 
…

Of the 3,000 Palestinians killed during the 4-year-old uprising, more than 1,300 were bystanders, B’Tselem’s Montell said. There have been 23 indictments of soldiers in the deaths of civilians, including the captain charged in al Hams’ death, but only four have been convicted of wrongdoing.

Capt. Jacob Dallal, an IDF spokesman, said the conflict has taken its toll on young soldiers, who are forced to make life-and-death decisions every day.

“This is a very difficult conflict because you can’t lose the moral high ground,” he said. “And we won’t.”

Widespread public dismay at the incidents shows they don’t reflect Israeli values, said Michel Bar Zohar, a former Knesset member and author of “Facing a Cruel Mirror: Israel’s Moment of Truth.”

“I don’t know any other society that has such moral principles and is so keen on preserving them,” he said.

Montell, however, said questions ought to go beyond the incidents themselves.

“It’s very comfortable for society to say it’s a few bad apples, because if it’s not a few bad apples then we have to ask ourselves who is responsible,” she said. “What are the implications for our society? Can you expect soldiers to remain humane doing that job?”

Al Hams’ father, Samir al Hams, says the answer is no. Although Israelis have denounced his daughter’s death, no one from the military has come to apologize or explain what happened.

“Where’s the humanity?” al Hams asked. “Maybe you haven’t seen them act in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Nothing that is touched by them survives. Every stone, every tree, every home is destroyed.”

Full Article:

realcities.com/mld/krwashington/10353216.htm
 
So many Arab civilians are dying because terrorists are embedded in their societies and cities. The only way for peace in the holy land is for Israel to expel the Arabs from Gaza and the west bank and build the fence there. Of course the perfect solution would be fore the Latin Kingdom to be reestablished, but Israel running the place is a much better solution than terrorists.

I respect the Israeli’s because the don’t care what the rest of the world thinks; they just get the job done. They are the only military in the world that would exterminate a quadriplegic in a wheel chair, with a hell fire cruise missile.
 
Yep, a free press and human rights groups. It really is a shame we don’t find those within the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority. If we did, maybe there wouldn’t be as much terrorism condoned by the PA.

You see, a free press and a government open to human rights groups tend to provide a check to rampent tyranny. The Palestinians should try it someday. I think they will like it.
 
I thank God that Israel exists and is a friend of the United States. It is unfortunate this incident happened (if it did). It is also unfortunate that Palestinian terrorists kill and maim innocent Israelis. Hopefully with Sharons offer to give up gaza and the passing of Arafat things will get better. Please pray for peace.
 
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A.Pelliccio:
…the Israeli’s … don’t care what the rest of the world thinks; they just get the job done. They are the only military in the world that would exterminate a quadriplegic in a wheel chair, with a hell fire cruise missile.
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Paid for by the US taxpayer to boot.

You said a mouthfull, A.Pelliccio.

 
St. James:
I am also sad that people kill each other. The use of the term, “Zionist” is germane to this discussion, however. The Israeli state is founded in racial and religious inequality which creates the mindset which allows for the slaughter of innocent Palestinians.

The US media is effectively downplaying and even covering up attrocities committed by Israelis. These things need to be made known to the world.

I agree very much that we must all recognize each other as children of God. Unfortunately, Judaism, the official religion of the Israeli state, regards non-Jews (Gentiles: the other nations) as animals.

“Thus it may be inferred that the All Merciful declared their children to be legally fatherless, for [so indeed it is also] written, Whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.” (Yebamoth 98a, Babylonian Talmud)
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I can see both sides,terrorism on either side is wrong.St.James and Gillam the problem is the problem of evil and what the devil can convince people of in the name of God to do.The ratioanal that you mentioned about the Jewish people thinking people that are not Jews are animals is evil, the terrorist acts of walking into a crowd and blowing themselves up is evil.No one can murder like that and blame God for it,it is against Gods commandment.I have a Jewish uncle who lost all but his immediate family and one uncle in the holocaust.He is not a practicing Jew,but he is disturbed what is going on over there,he feels bad for the Palestinians(not the terrorists).Both sides MUST look at each other as humans created by God,and we need to pray for them both that the devil will not use them for his evil means.God Bless
 
’I can’t imagine anyone who considers himself a human being can do this’

On Friday a four-year-old Palestinian boy was shot dead by a soldier - the most recent child victim of the Israeli army. Chris McGreal investigates a shocking series of deaths

Monday July 28, 2003
The Guardian

"Nine-year-old Abdul Rahman Jadallah’s promise to the corpse of the shy little girl who lived up the street was, in all probability, kept for him by an Israeli bullet.

The boy - Rahman to his family - barely knew Haneen Suliaman in life. But whenever there was a killing in the dense Palestinian towns of southern Gaza he would race to the morgue to join the throng around the mutilated victim.

Then he would tag along with the surging, angry funerals of those felled by rarely seen soldiers hovering far above in helicopters or cocooned behind the thick concrete of their pillboxes.

Haneen, who was eight years old, had been shot twice in the head by an Israeli soldier as she walked down the street in Khan Yunis refugee camp with her mother, Lila Abu Selmi…"

Full Article:

guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1007051,00.html
 
That is diabolical:mad: I am going to pray against all the evil going on over there.God bless
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
That is diabolical:mad: I am going to pray against all the evil going on over there.God bless
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The Guardian is a pretty pro-palestinian leaning newspaper and you need to read their articles carefully.

Diabolical? Well, let’s look at the article and try to figure out what is going on. Here is a quote from the article:

The killing of Haneen is clearer in the commander’s mind. “We checked it and we know that on the same day there was shooting of a mortar,” he says. “The troops from the post shot back at the area where the mortar was launched, the area where the girl was killed. We didn’t see if we hit someone. I assume that a stray bullet hit Haneen. Unfortunately.” Doesn’t he think that simply shooting back in the general direction of a mortar attack is irresponsible at best? He says not. “You cannot have soldiers sitting and doing nothing when they are shot at,” he says.

Doesn’t sound diabolical to me.

What is diabolical is for Palestinians to hide behind children and fire mortars. Why are they firing mortars anywhere around children?
 
Gilliam, I don’t agree with you about all subjects, but your take on the Palestinian/Israeli problem is very wise. It is sad that terrorists and despots use innocent civilians. I remember when Sadaam did the same thing in the first Gulf War. He put women and children next to sensitive installations to be used as “human shields.”

Certainly the Israelis have done wrong actions that have harmed innocent civilians, but in general, that is not their goal. Their press, and human rights groups are testament to that. In fact, Mr. St. James has quoted the Israeli press more than once. This kind of self-criticism and striving to minimize civilian injuries isn’t seen by the Palestinians nor the insurgents in Iraq.
 
Does anyone remember that story about that frightened 16 year old retarded child who the Palestinian terrorists equiped with bombs so he could blow himself up?
It’s a shame the Palestinians create these situations like they do.
 
I will be visiting Israel shortly. From that perspective I have to say I am pleased the Israeli’s work so hard to defeat the terrorists. These terrorists have used children and put them in harms way. Sometimes even trying to get the IDF to shoot at them so they can get “good” press. Also in every conflict civilians are killed. It is almost impossible to avoid. Especially is city street fighting. But we should not accept the Arab presses word on anything. If you want a sample go to www.memri.org and read what they say when they don’t think we are listening.
 
I want to be very clear on this. I am not anti-Palestinian. I would not want to be in their shoes and I wish them the best. My point of view is that they will never have peace by trying to push Israel into the sea with terrorism.

If they want to live in peace and have their own country, I think they now have that opportunity. They need to grab it. They need to be parrt of the connected world community of nations, not a rebel gang.
 
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