Issue with Ordaining Women

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She was among the Myrrhbearers who walked with Christ’s body to the tomb.
 
Eleven of the twelve apostles were martyred. The first 33 popes were martyred.

Of course, we should not desire martyrdom and we should be thankful to God for the peace of the age we live in, but I haven’t seen much persecution of Catholics in the west in my life.

How is Amy Coney Barrett being persecuted for her beliefs? Is she being made to renounce the faith or else suffer imprisonment or torture?
 
Your first point baffles me. You said there was a “shortage of ‘willingness to hear and respond to God’s call’.“ i said there was a shortage among bishops, but I did not mean to exclude shortages elsewhere. Many people are unwilling to hear and respond. Of course, bishops have primary responsibility in these things.

You 2nd point is just confused. We started with your statement about someone not hearing. I used the fact that bishops judge, on behalf of the Church, to explain that the unwillingness among bishops was important. There was no slight of hand, because your statements were already in plain sight.

I certainly did not mean the bishops were wrong, just that they were responsible for the shortage of priests.
 
There really is no shortage of priests. Where is it written that the faithful are entitled to have X priests per diocese/territory?
 
They’re at least supposed to have efforts taken so there’s enough to regularly administer the sacraments and celebrate mass.
 
Aren’t the priests who are ordained celebrating mass (except for those excommunicated or barred from doing so)?? What do you mean?
 
I believe that there is a precedent for that. It was alleged to me that Mother Angelica threatened that if the English translation of the Catechism of the Catholic Church included ‘inclusive’ language that she would publicly denounce it on her network.
 
Dovekin said:
I certainly did not mean the bishops were wrong, just that they were responsible for the shortage of priests.
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… because they don’t allow female priests, right? That was the intent of your statement, no?
 
Gorgias said:
because they don’t allow female priests, right? That was the intent of your statement, no?
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Actually, no. I can understand why you would think that, but that was not my intention at all.

I sincerely believe there is no shortage of men “willing to hear and respond to God’s call.” The shortage exists because bishops are alienated from these men:
But how can they call on him in whom they have not believed?
And how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard?
And how can they hear without someone to preach?
And how can people preach unless they are sent?
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I tried to join a religious order when I finished college, and was told to come back in two years. At the time when I was deciding how to order my life differently, they were unwilling. Two years later, i reapplied, up ending my life again. As I looked at that, I said ‘this is crazy’ and withdrew my application. So now I reflexively respond when people suggest there is a shortage of willingness among young men.That is not where the primary shortage is imo. The insular “prisoner of the Vatican” attitude, that fears the “world,” is a failed strategy. (and it would be an even worse failure for women if women were eligible for ordination)
As it is written,
“How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
Romans 10:14-15
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Dovekin said:
Actually, no. I can understand why you would think that, but that was not my intention at all.
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OK – since the topic of the thread is women’s ordination, I thought you meant that the bishops were failing by virtue of not ordaining women. My mistake. 👍
Dovekin said:
I tried to join a religious order when I finished college, and was told to come back in two years.
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So, sometimes, as a diocese or community looks at a prospective vocation, they discern that the answer might lie in patience. Looks like they were right, no? After all, with the perspective that time gave you, your response turned into “this is crazy.” Far better that this happens before you’re in a situation in which you feel pressure to continue through to a life-time commitment, no?
 
I have no idea if it was better “this happens before you’re in a situation…” i just know that I, and probably many others who were willing to be in that position, never had the chance. At least some of them were kept from it because priests were unwilling to hear and respond, even if that does not apply to me.

And I am pretty sure that the “patience” you cite is part of what I mean by the alienation of bishops from young men. It has nothing to do with the willingness of young men, and everything to do with the unwillingness of those who choose to be cut off from them. It might be the right course of action, it might not, but it is a factor in any shortage of priests.
 
otjm said:
While I understand your comments about how StJemma opened the discussion, I found the information helpful. I have been on our parish RCIA team for about 25 years. Something like 10 years ago we had a young woman join RCIA; she traveled a good distance but came because she had heard about our specific group.

It was helpful to me and the rest of the team to know her background (she was an engineer at Intel) as it was clear from the get-go that simplistic presentations were not going to be of any use (having been raised on the Baltimore Catechism, I understand that many Catholics do not get exceedingly farther into theology than the basics).

The young woman had an issue she struggled with through most of the program, and finally the issue fell into place. What was helpful, I say again, was knowing her background.

And I don’t find any objection to StJemma noting she is an attorney, any more than I would if someone said they were a Lutheran or Seventh Day Adventist or Latter Day Saint. At least I know where our starting point is.
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This is important. We approach people as unique persons with unique gifts and unique questions and struggles.
And as St Paul did, we preach the Gospel to them in ways that appeal to them personally and unlock the gift of faith for them personally.
In RCIA, It’s just as important to know the person as it is for the person to know the material. (maybe more so)
 
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