Issue with Ordaining Women

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poche said:
That was Cardinal Willibrands opinion, Pope St John Paul’s understanding of the response was something different
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Whatever the Cardinal or the Pope thought, Dr Runcie’s letter was clearly, and contrary to what you have said, couched in theological, not sociological, terms. Such is obvious to anyone reading it. The Cardinal responded, arguing in theological terms for the Catholic position, as one would expect. I don’t see why you should think the Pope and the Cardinal differed on this, They both, of course, argued the Catholic theology, which I quite understand a Catholic is expected dutifully to accept.

I have no standing in this argument about women’s ordination, and wouldn’t attempt an opinion on it. But you seem anxious not simply to establish that the pro-women’s-ordination position is theologically wrong, but that it is not possible to make any theological argument for it at all. Which is daft, given that many theologians take the position (wrongly, perhaps) that women’s ordination is theologically acceptable.
 
I don’t think you understand the whole “We don’t have the authority” part of why women cannot be ordained.

Also, the Church is very much infallible. It’s part of the magisterium.
 
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JackMcCoy said:
Is that the same Church that has no problem covering up pedofile actions by priests?
As I said, the Church is run by men. Men in human beings. Human beings are imperfect.
The Church says that women cannot be priests.
The Church says that priests cannot marry.
The Church is NOT infallible.
Therefore some day women maybe able to be priests and some day, priests may be able to marry.
Some ministers from other religions, who are married, have converted to become priests.
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You are confusing decisions they make as humans versus decisions of our faith.
 
Leave the Church. There’s no reason for you to be Catholic if you don’t believe that the Church has moral authority.
 
There is no doubt in my mind that women would make excellent Priests.

However, that is not in God’s plan for us in His Church. Think of Our Lady, she was willing to be what God wanted her to be. She is our role model, especially for women. She is now Queen of Heaven and Earth.

Women can operate in many capacities and do them all extremely well, big and small. But first and foremost, what does God want for us?

The Holy Scriptures state 1 Timothy 2.12 that a woman is not to have authority over a man. the letter was from Paul written to Timothy and was addressing church matters.

StJemma, the woman who started this post, is obviously talented and accomplished in many good things. Nonetheless, we are not God, we are His creation, and He said, “No,” for female Priests in the capacity in which she speaks, that is ordained.

On the other hand 🙂 beginning with the Sacrament of Baptism, we, all men and women, become priests, according to Holy Scripture and Church teaching.

Read about it 1 Peter 2. Paul wrote in verses 5 and 9, “…you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.”

Read The Revelation of Jesus Christ chapter one. Verse 6 states that
“…[He] has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.”

Read Revelation 5. Verses 9 to 10 says,
“And they sang a new song, saying:
'You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals; for You were slain, and have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and have made us kings and priests to our God: and we shall reign on the earth.”

In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, read about our role as priests starting at #1544. Indeed, we as priests have much work to do.

Best regards to StJemma!
 
There is another source that comes from Canon Law;

Can. 1024 A baptized male alone receives sacred ordination validly.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3P.HTM

The operative word in reference to the word “male” in Latin is “vir.” What the Code of Canon Law is saying is that even if the bishop goes through the imposition of hands and all of the ceremonies of the ordination with the woman as a recipient that ordination would not be valid.
 
Does not the minister of every sacrament act “in Persona Christi” when conferring that sacrament?

If so, cannot women act “IPC” when baptizing and marrying? After all, it is Christ who baptizes and marries through that woman.
 
Want to be a leader?

Do something to help immigrants like Francis Xavier Cabrini.

Be a soldier and fight for country and Christendom like St. Joan of Arc.

Raise a family of saints, like Azelie-Marie Guerin.

Past saints have found many important roles, and no saint will ever be a female priest.
 
Ryan1 said:
Does not the minister of every sacrament act “in Persona Christi” when conferring that sacrament?
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No, since anyone can validly baptize someone without Holy Orders. Also, marriage is done by the couple getting married, not the clergyman accepting their vows.
 
I assumed that In Persona Christi meant that it is Christ himself ministering the sacrament.
 
JackMcCoy said:
The fact that we have a shortage of priests merits the discussion for change.
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JackMcCoy said:
If women were allowed to become priests and if priests were allowed to marry, I believe the Church would be strengthened.
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Jack,

Are you familiar with the shortage of ministers in mainline Protestant denominations? They allow what you propose, and it hasn’t strengthened their numbers. In fact, when women were permitted to become ministers, the number of ministers spiked for a short while… and then went back down to approximately the same number that it had been previously.

If the presence of married and female ministers didn’t solve the shortage of ministers for our Protestant brothers and sisters, why should we expect it should solve the problem for us?
JackMcCoy said:
if priests were allowed to marry
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WingsOfEagles said:
I believe allowing Roman Catholic Priests to marry will probably be re-examined at some point.
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Just to clarify – there’s a difference between “allowing priests to marry” and “allowing married men to become priests”. The former will never happen; the latter is something that the Church could choose to implement for the Latin Rite.
 
The early church had a severe “shortage” of priests. But the apostles successfully converted thousands in their lifetime.

We have a faith shortage, not a priest shortage.
 
Again, I’m not arguing for the ordination of women. I’m arguing that women should be included among the Vatican’s decision makers. I don’t see why ordination is necessary for that role.
 
Ryan1 said:
The early church had a severe “shortage” of priests. But the apostles successfully converted thousands in their lifetime.
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It’s kinda an ‘apples and oranges’ argument, don’t you think? After all, some of the most fervent Catholics are those who convert as adults. (Take a look at the bio’s for seminarians in your diocese. You might be surprised at the number of converts in that group.)

And, in the time of the apostles, the number of ‘adult converts’ as a percentage of Church membership was orders of magnitude larger than it is today. So… same dynamic, but very different situation?
We have a faith shortage, not a priest shortage.
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I don’t think it’s so much a shortage in ‘faith’ as it is a shortage in ‘willingness to hear and respond to God’s call’… 🤷‍♂️
 
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