Issue with Priest, wondering what to do

[Caz]

My husband and I got married in May and as part of our day, we had a beautiful Catholic marriage service at our local parish Church. The day was just perfect. I am Catholic and my husband is Jewish. In our sessions with the priest leading up to the wedding, we asked him whether the question “Will you bring up any children you have in the Catholic faith?” would be asked just of me or of both of us. My fiancé explained to the priest that he would not be able to answer this question as being “yes”, being that he’s Jewish. The priest said that this question would only be posed to myself as the Catholic. He reassured my husband that it would not be appropriate to ask someone who is not Catholic this question. We all discussed how it would be doing a disservice to the Catholic Church to have someone who is a practicing Jew agree to bring up a child in a faith he has no knowledge of! In addition, he agreed that even if the non-Catholic would like to bring any children up as a such, they would clearly not be able to a very good job of it when it’s not their own religion. They can only be supportive to the Catholic partner. This made a lot of sense to us and we were reassured that he’d said these things. However, a couple of days before the wedding during our rehearsal, the priest did in fact ask my husband that question. As I hope everyone reading this can understand given what we were told, it was a shock to us both. However, when my fiancé politely queried it, the priest said ”yes, you’ll be asked that, too”. He clearly did not want to discuss it any more than that. There was no “ sorry, I realised that I had got it wrong previously”. It was really strange. We were in total shock and not sure what to say. We carried on with the rehearsal but we went home feeling quite upset and as though we had been misled. The problem is that although my husband was very gracious about it and he did in fact answer that question as being a “yes” during our wedding ceremony, I feel quite hurt that the Priest has apparently been dishonest towards us. It goes against everything that Christianity stands for. It feels as though we were purposefully misled right up until two days before our wedding when of course it was much too late to make any other arrangements had we needed to based on this. I wonder whether I should make a complaint to someone higher up? If it was the case that the priest had been wrong when he said originally that only I would be required to answer this question, then I would have hoped he would explain his mistake in a nice way to us rather than apparently sneak it into our rehearsal like that. I thought it was possible that maybe he’d forgotten what he had told us, as I always try to see the good in people, but I don’t think that is likely since we had discussed it at quite some length. I know that some people might say to just leave things and try to move on, but it has left me feeling a little alienated from my own religion and as though it’s not what I thought it was.

 

[TheLittleLady]

It could be that the priest had the wrong page marked in the book.

The Order of Celebrating Matrimony Between a Catholic and a Catechumen or a Non-Christian - For Your Marriage

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It’s my understanding that the first answer the priest told you was in fact the correct one (that your Jewish fiance wouldn’t be asked).

I suspect the priest got mixed up, marked the wrong page in the book, confused you with a different couple etc.

Please talk to the priest.

 

[Justin_Mary]

It’s my understanding that the first answer the priest told you was in fact the correct one (that your Jewish fiance wouldn’t be asked).

It was my understanding the priest would ask if the non-Catholic would not object to the children being raised Catholic, or would allow them to be taught the Catholic faith. Not that he would actually do the teaching.

 

[1ke]

It was my understanding the priest would ask if the non-Catholic would not object to the children being raised Catholic, or would allow them to be taught the Catholic faith. Not that he would actually do the teaching.

During premarital preparation, yes. Not during the ceremony.

 

[Dlee]

As all have suggested, make an appointment with the priest. The time to ask the question was immediately after/during the rehearsal.

 

[BartholomewB]

As others have said, you need to get this sorted out with the priest. FWIW, I can tell you from my own experience what the rule was back in the twentieth century, though evidently it has changed since then. A few days before our wedding we went to the diocesan offices and had a meeting with the priest who dealt with mixed marriages. I was still an Anglican at the time. The Catholic spouse (my wife) gave a written undertaking that she would bring up our children as Catholics, and the non-Catholic spouse (me) gave a written undertaking that I would allow her to do that. That seems to be pretty much in line with what your priest told you the first time.

 

[xihha]

I was explained it as they didn’t expect my CofE husband to physically raise them to be Catholic, just to support me in doing so and generally enforce the values in family life.

 

[Mary888]

That is an inter-confessional wedding, the OP refers to an inter-religious wedding.

 

[Gorgias]

During premarital preparation, yes. Not during the ceremony.

Actually, there is a question about children in the questions that are asked prior to the I do’s, which is worded in such a way that might lead to a misunderstanding…

@Caz, I’m wondering whether you and your husband aren’t conflating the intent of the two questions. During pre-marital preparation, the priest asks the Catholic person in the couple “will you do everything in your power to baptize and raise any children in your marriage as Catholics?”, and then he asks the non-Catholic whether they’ve witnessed the Catholic’s answer. As you mention, there is no longer any requirement that the non-Catholic make this promise himself.

During the wedding ceremony, though, there’s a different question that’s asked, with a subtly different intent:
“Are you prepared to accept children lovingly from God and to bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?”

This question isn’t asking him to make the promise that you made during the pre-marital interview. Rather, it’s just asking him to affirm that he would accept children in this marriage and raise them in a Godly way. The wording is traditional, and I can see where you’d take it the way ya’ll have, but it’s not trying to sneak in a promise that the non-Christian spouse might be unwilling to make.

If you looked at the texts of the three different forms of a Catholic wedding (that is, between two Catholics, between a Catholic and a non-Catholic Christian, and between a Catholic and an unbaptized person), you’d see that the third form – the one that you experienced – goes out of its way in its language to respect the non-belief of those present who are not Christian.

However, the validity of the marriage depends on the form of the questions, so this question maintains consistency in its wording with the way that it’s asked in every other Catholic wedding ceremony.

I’m sorry that there was this confusion, and it seemed to you that the priest was “being dishonest.” He wasn’t; it just seems that he didn’t explain it sufficiently or clearly enough to you. Your husband wasn’t being asked “will you baptize and raise your children Catholic?”, but just “will you raise your children in a way that’s consistent with Catholic moral standards?”

 

[Gorgias]

It was my understanding the priest would ask if the non-Catholic would not object to the children being raised Catholic, or would allow them to be taught the Catholic faith.

Back in the day, that was the case. Not anymore…

FWIW, I can tell you from my own experience what the rule was back in the twentieth century, though evidently it has changed since then.

Yes, it has! I believe that the change came about in the '80s, around the time of the promulgation of the updated Code of Canon Law. (Don’t quote me on this, but my recollection is that it changed because of the changes in the canons.)

It used to be that both spouses – the Catholic and the non-Catholic – were asked to promise to baptize and raise their child(ren) Catholic. You know how that worked out, right? The Catholic kicked the non-Catholic under the table, and the non-Catholic jumped and said, “umm… yeah. whatever.”

I think that part of the rationale behind the change was in order that the Church wouldn’t be asking non-Catholics to make promises that they didn’t particularly intend to keep.

the non-Catholic spouse (me) gave a written undertaking that I would allow her to do that. That seems to be pretty much in line with what your priest told you the first time.

Actually… no. The OP’s husband wasn’t asked to promise or sign anything, but rather, was just asked verbally to confirm that he’d witnessed the promises his fiancee had just made…

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It used to be that both spouses – the Catholic and the non-Catholic – were asked to promise to baptize and raise their child(ren) Catholic. You know how that worked out, right? The Catholic kicked the non-Catholic under the table, and the non-Catholic jumped and said, “umm… yeah. whatever.”

Me before fiance and I went to meet with the priest: “Now remember, if he asks about raising the children Catholic, the answer is YES. Don’t say anything else and don’t make any jokes, or he won’t marry us.”

 

[Caz]

During the wedding ceremony, though, there’s a different question that’s asked, with a subtly different intent:
“Are you prepared to accept children lovingly from God and to bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?”

Hi, thank you for your response. We definitely didn’t confuse the question with this one. We were aware that this additional question would be asked as well and we were both happy to answer “yes” to it. We discussed this question with the priest in advance as well. We were made fully aware of all three questions and who would be asked them. It was only the question I described in my post that the priest confirmed would be directed only to me.

 

[Caz]

That’s very possible. There was actually another little mistake made in the ceremony so perhaps he hadn’t performed many marriage services before.

 

[Caz]

Yes, we definitely should have asked. Just that the priest seemed to be in such a hurry during the rehearsal and there was not really any time to ask questions at the end unfortunately.

 

[Gorgias]

We were made fully aware of all three questions and who would be asked them. It was only the question I described in my post that the priest confirmed would be directed only to me.

Hmm… so, in your meeting prior to the wedding, you asked whether the third question during the service would only be asked of you, and not your husband? And the priest said yes?!?

That’s really, really odd. In fact, that’s not what the ceremony allows. (To further cloud the issue, this third question is somewhat ‘optional’ – it may be omitted. In fact, it is often omitted, for example, when the couple is advanced in years and child-bearing really isn’t part of the equation.)

Giving the benefit of the doubt to the priest, I’m wondering whether he wasn’t confused: as part of the pre-marital interview, the question about raising children Catholic is always asked when one spouse is non-Catholic. And, since 1983 or thereabouts, the question is no longer posed to the non-Catholic fiance. Is it possible that he thought you were talking about asking the question at the meeting and not at the ceremony?

 

[Phemie]

Gorgias:

It used to be that both spouses – the Catholic and the non-Catholic – were asked to promise to baptize and raise their child(ren) Catholic. You know how that worked out, right? The Catholic kicked the non-Catholic under the table, and the non-Catholic jumped and said, “umm… yeah. whatever.”

Me before fiance and I went to meet with the priest: “Now remember, if he asks about raising the children Catholic, the answer is YES. Don’t say anything else and don’t make any jokes, or he won’t marry us.”

We married in 1975 and hubby had to promise to allow the children to be raised Catholic. I wasn’t present when my fiance was asked that question as his part of the prenuptial investigation and counselling was done with the Catholic Padre on the military base where he was posted, 2 provinces away from where I was living. I met with my Pastor in the parish where I’d been baptized and confirmed and had received all my sacraments.

Luckily we had discussed the raising of children long before we’d reached the “meet with the priest” stage.

It was always my understanding that the bride and groom were questioned separately, under oath, during that part of the prenuptial investigation.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

We got married in 1994. The priest didn’t question us separately. I thought he would ask the question you said you were asked because I’d mostly heard about the old school rules from old Catholics in my family.

I think the priest might have asked us together about raising the kids Catholic and I said we planned to do that and my husband-to-be said he was fine with it, had no objection. I think that was the end of the topic. Priest didn’t seem really interested in asking us a lot of questions, which surprised me because his manner was that of an old-timey and by-the-book serious priest.

 

[Phemie]

We got married in 1994. The priest didn’t question us separately. I thought he would ask the question you said you were asked because I’d mostly heard about the old school rules from old Catholics in my family.

I think the priest might have asked us together about raising the kids Catholic and I said we planned to do that and my husband-to-be said he was fine with it, had no objection. I think that was the end of the topic. Priest didn’t seem really interested in asking us a lot of questions, which surprised me because his manner was that of an old-timey and by-the-book serious priest.

It may be a diocesan policy where I live. I’m almost positive that the paperwork includes the comment that the prospective spouses are interviewed separately, and then there is a section where the non-Catholic spouses sign a statement to the effect that they have been informed of the Catholic’s promise and have had the meaning of the promise explained to them.

 

[JohnLilburne]

In the liturgical book, The Order of Celebrating Matrimony , it has the following for all four types of marriage ceremony:

“The following question may be omitted, if circumstances suggest this, for example, if the couple are advanced in years.

Are you prepared to accept children loving from God
and to bring them up
according to the law of Christ and his Church?

The bridegroom and bride each say:

I am.”

This is in n. 60, 94, 128 and 159 of the book. The 159 is the chapter “The Order of Celebrating Matrimony Between a Catholic and a Catechumen or a Non-Christian”.

If the couple are not advanced in years, is the question optional? I am not sure.

It seems that the Conference of Bishops could decide to omit the question. It has in Chapter IV “ADAPTATIONS TO BE PREPARED BY THE CONFERENCES OF BISHOPS”:

“41. In preparing adaptations, the following points should be kept in mind: …

3 ) Provided the structure of the sacramental rite is preserved, the order of the parts may be adapted. If it seems more appropriate, the questions before the consent may be omitted, provided the law is observed that the person assisting ask for and receive the consent of the contracting parties.”

The question is part of “The Questions Before the Consent” in the ritual.

So by communicating your concerns to the Bishop, Vicar General and/or Priest there may be an improvement.

[Excerpts from the English translation of The Order of Celebrating Matrimony, © 2013, International Commission on English in the Liturgy Corporation. All rights reserved.]