Issues other than abortion

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VanitasVanitatum said:
Within reason. If you bump into me and I kill you would that be justified?
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No. But I think self defense argument is taken a bit far sometimes. However, it can sometimes be very difficult to ascertain when someone wishes to impart harm on someone.
 
VanitasVanitatum said:
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Vonsalza:
We’re typically talking about people who have been meaningfully separate from their mothers since birth.
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That doesn’t overide what the DNA says which is that they are not the same person.
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DNA doesn’t define personhood. It’s a philosophical, legal concept. Science can only tell us how fetal development works.

Miscarriages contained unique DNA, yet most don’t consider those events to be the death of a person.
VanitasVanitatum said:
The fetus can react to things too.
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In later stages of the pregnancy, sure. Like when my wife drank something with a lot of sugar in it. Activity picked up with my kids. They were almost people, separate from my wife.

But not yet.
 
I know several people who can remember being born, so I presume that they were aware and had brain activity both before and after birth.
 
Vonsalza said:
Miscarriages contained unique DNA, yet most don’t consider those events to be the death of a person.
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I’m sure any woman that has had a miscarriage when she was aware that she was pregnant would disagree with you.

Or if your wife had miscarried would you have mourned?

On a related note did you keep scan photos? If so why?
 
JimG said:
I know several people who can remember being born, so I presume that they were aware and had brain activity both before and after birth.
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You know people that think they remember it.

You can’t remember anything prior to your second year of life. It’s not possible.
 
Elf01 said:
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Vonsalza:
Miscarriages contained unique DNA, yet most don’t consider those events to be the death of a person.
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I’m sure any woman that has had a miscarriage when she was aware that she was pregnant would disagree with you.
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On a personal note, sure. She chose to.

On a societal note, under laws everyone has to follow, no. We don’t. I’m sure the coroner didn’t visit your friend after her tragedy.
 
There is no doubt that the woman and the unborn child are two distinct human beings. They do not have the same DNA, they have different physical features, possibly different sex. Unborn children have been successfully operated on in the womb. The obstetrician has two patients and pays attention to both of them.
 
JimG said:
There is no doubt that the woman and the unborn child are two distinct human beings.
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I agree fully.

There’s lots of doubt over when that fetus is a separate “person”.

Also, there is no doubt that a woman is entitled to control over her own body just like you’re in control of yours.

If she doesn’t want it sacrificed for a pregnancy she doesn’t want, you don’t have the right to make her do it, Jim.
 
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I once read about a case in Virginia about 10 years ago where a woman gave birth and then smothered her unwanted newborn child with a pillow. The judge acquitted her of infanticide, saying that what she did was no different from a late-term abortion because the umbilical cord was still attached.

So it seems that defining personhood starting at birth is not at all clear cut. Does the child have to be detached from the woman to be considered a “person” even when it is living and breathing outside of the womb?
 
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