Issues other than abortion

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Oh I suppose it’s all over the web, easy enough to find. But they don’t refer to it as infanticide. All those laws are euphemistically named.
 
It’s proves the gov’t’s intent, yes. But it doesn’t prove how strong of an effect the spending had. Poverty could’ve been worse or better without the spending.

I put on a coat to stay warm during the polar vortex. I didn’t stay warm. Putting on the coat wasn’t a failure, because I might have died without the coat.
 
Rhetorically, to give initiatives like Great Society the benefit of the doubt, what if the focus wasn’t so much on reducing poverty (like creating a ladder for social mobility and moving up to the middle class) but alleviating its impacts (such as the previous example about giving a coat)? Additionally, if I understand, Great Society’s implementation was in some ways hindered as the Vietnam War began too ovetake attention (and funds) that could have been used to help better implement the initiative.
 
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on_the_hill said:
I put on a coat to stay warm during the polar vortex. I didn’t stay warm. Putting on the coat wasn’t a failure, because I might have died without the coat.
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It was a failure on the stated goal (to stay warm). It wasn’t failure of a retroactive stated goal (stay alive) manufactured after failure of the stated goal, to save face.

Just like increase of poverty is failure of stated goal (war on poverty) but isn’t failure of a vague retroactive stated goal (“could’ve been worse” w/o the spending) manufactured after failure of the stated goal, to save face.
 
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RCIAGraduate said:
what if the focus wasn’t so much on reducing poverty
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then Govt lied with " war on poverty" so can’t be trusted
RCIAGraduate said:
Additionally, if I understand, Great Society’s implementation was in some ways hindered as the Vietnam War began
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Govt lied about starting Vietnam war (Gulf of Tonkin) by saying they were attacked by Vietnamese ships which never happened, so again if that’s true why all this blind faith in Govt?
 
Because it’s a necessary evil. Charity is nice but what if it only goes so far and ends up leaving some behind? Local and state governments only have so much capacity.
 
You keep using the wrong figures to “prove” a falsehood about anti-poverty programs. The “War on Poverty” in the 1960s was actually a huge success, with the poverty rate dropping from 22.4% in 1959, to 12.6% in 1969. That is the correct government figure. Never in the last 50 years has poverty gone above 15.2%, and that was only during the great recession. In the early 1970s, it dropped below 12%. The 2017 poverty rate was 12.3%. Poverty has not increased with government programs, it has fallen dramatically.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...merica-in-five-charts/?utm_term=.2d6d9ecb3104
 

How we define poverty is the big question

I make $11 per hour, 35 hours per week. Out of that comes around $300 for my health insurance group coverage.

My husband is on SSDI. All but $170 of his check goes to pay for his medicare premiums. $124 for Medicare, $670 for Part B plan and about $30 per month for his RX coverage. The rest goes for out of pocket medicine.

We ARE poor, yet, not so according to the federal guidelines.

Rent is $600 per month.

You do the math to see how comfy we live.
 
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Since the Ronald Reagan years, the middle class and the working class have gotten progressively poorer, while the rich class have gotten richer and richer. Those are the facts.
The R in the word Republican stands for rich. Historically, Republicans always have supported the rich.
Prior to FDR’s election, Herbert Hoover and the GOPers kept speaking of prosperity being just around the corner, while millions of Americans struggled to survive the Great Depression.
 
Exactly.

We worked hard and went to college and did all of the things we were told to do. Two people who are so smart we both earned full ride scholarships on grades and talents.

Good job, house on a golf course, money in the bank, a boat, three cars, and then we lost everything in the 2007/2008 crash. All of it. Gone. No jobs.

Went to working menial jobs just to survive.

There is NO American dream anymore.

Tell me again how I need to pull myself up by my own bootstraps (not you, @yournamehere, the other folks)
 
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Aquinas11 said:
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on_the_hill:
I put on a coat to stay warm during the polar vortex. I didn’t stay warm. Putting on the coat wasn’t a failure, because I might have died without the coat.
Click to expand...
It was a failure on the stated goal (to stay warm). It wasn’t failure of a retroactive stated goal (stay alive) manufactured after failure of the stated goal, to save face.

Just like increase of poverty is failure of stated goal (war on poverty) but isn’t failure of a vague retroactive stated goal (“could’ve been worse” w/o the spending) manufactured after failure of the stated goal, to save face.
Click to expand...
Stating the goal had no effect on the outcome. What I would want to see is something like…I don’t know…off the top of my head…the dollar for dollar comparison.

What was the dollar decline in household wealth for every dollar of government spending on poverty? For every $1 spent by the U.S. gov’t, how many dollars were lost by the target population? Or, how about: For every $1 spent by the U.S. gov’t, what was the percent increase in people below the poverty line?

I have seen the claim that poverty programs led to the dissolution of families because single parents (mothers) were eligible for more aid than married parents. Therefore, people were getting divorced on paper so as to receive higher benefits.
 
Yes, I have heard that bootstraps baloney before.
The big majority of working people work their collective butts off, but the system is rigged against them.
Pay is low, while hours are high.
We get no tax cuts.
We overpay for health care and prescription drugs.
Then we have to listen to Republicans talk about how lazy American workers are. Absolute baloney!
 
Oh, I agree. Many people who are barely keeping their head above water financially aren’t considered impoverished. This is the “official” poverty number. To be counted in the poverty section you gotta be real real poor. To get Medicaid in some states you must be practically destitute.
 
YourNameHere said:
Since the Ronald Reagan years, the middle class and the working class have gotten progressively poorer, while the rich class have gotten richer and richer. Those are the facts.
The R in the word Republican stands for rich. Historically, Republicans always have supported the rich.
Prior to FDR’s election, Herbert Hoover and the GOPers kept speaking of prosperity being just around the corner, while millions of Americans struggled to survive the Great Depression.
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I know another issue than abortion:
political posturing that uses people as pawns.
So many of our issues could be solved if people stopped the brain-dead politics.
 
Sure does! The entire swath of us who saw that dream die were devastated.
 
If I hover over your profile, it says you live in the Deep South. Are you in a high or low cost-of-living area? Everything you say is valid, but I’m always interested in that factor for context. It’s such a catch-22 the way there’s no jobs in the low-COL areas and a lot of work in areas where we can’t afford to live.

And congratulations to the OP. We are, by the way, doing what we always do on CAF - veering off into issues other than abortion. Maybe we pro-lifers care about those, too. 😉
 
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I’ve not moved, used to make 90K per year plus bonuses. The industry burst and dried up and I have uncountable former peers who are in the same boat. Personal income in my state is 14th lowest in the nation so just about in the middle, median home value is 3rd highest in the nation.
 
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phujosh said:
I would say gun violence is a crisis that needs to be addressed because we really don’t have public security and safety when anyone including a criminal or undocumented immigrant or lunatic can purchase guns and shoot anyone whether it be in workplaces, schools, clubs, restaurants, malls, movie theaters, bowling alleys, churches and synagogues, etc…
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This is not entirely true. The USA does have background checks on most guns bought commercially. If the system works, with the authorities entering the names into it of the people not supposed to be able to buy guns, they would not be able to buy guns from a store. The local drug dealer is another source, unfortunately.
 
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