Issues other than abortion

[HopkinsReb]

HopkinsReb:

Vonsalza:

No, it’s proof that people in-utero aren’t considered “full persons”.

When someone dies of natural causes, there’s no police investigation. My dad died of cancer, and we didn’t call the police. Because he didn’t have a murderer. Sometimes people die.

Miscarriages are natural tragedies. Abortions are not natural. They are part of the genocide which you are defending.

Your dad’s cancer death, while tragic, was obvious.

The cause of miscarriage is anything but. Maybe the woman wanted to have a home-abortion and told everyone it was a miscarriage. It ought to be looked into if it’s a full-blown person due protection of law.

Investigations only happen when there’s reason to suspect foul play.

There should be investigations for abortions, since you’ve admitted that it’s the killing of a person, in the genocide you defend.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

HopkinsReb:

Vonsalza:

No, it’s proof that people in-utero aren’t considered “full persons”.

When someone dies of natural causes, there’s no police investigation. My dad died of cancer, and we didn’t call the police. Because he didn’t have a murderer. Sometimes people die.

Miscarriages are natural tragedies. Abortions are not natural. They are part of the genocide which you are defending.

Your dad’s cancer death, while tragic, was obvious.

The cause of miscarriage is anything but. Maybe the woman wanted to have a home-abortion and told everyone it was a miscarriage. It ought to be looked into if it’s a full-blown person due protection of law.

Investigations only happen when there’s reason to suspect foul play.

There should be investigations for abortions, since you’ve admitted that it’s the killing of a person, in the genocide you defend.

“Miscarriage” was one of the things people called abortion in the days before it was legal, HopkinsReb.

 

[HopkinsReb]

HopkinsReb:

Vonsalza:

HopkinsReb:

Vonsalza:

No, it’s proof that people in-utero aren’t considered “full persons”.

When someone dies of natural causes, there’s no police investigation. My dad died of cancer, and we didn’t call the police. Because he didn’t have a murderer. Sometimes people die.

Miscarriages are natural tragedies. Abortions are not natural. They are part of the genocide which you are defending.

Your dad’s cancer death, while tragic, was obvious.

The cause of miscarriage is anything but. Maybe the woman wanted to have a home-abortion and told everyone it was a miscarriage. It ought to be looked into if it’s a full-blown person due protection of law.

Investigations only happen when there’s reason to suspect foul play.

There should be investigations for abortions, since you’ve admitted that it’s the killing of a person, in the genocide you defend.

“Miscarriage” was one of the things people called abortion in the days before it was legal, HopkinsReb.

Pointing out the historical use of a euphemism does not detract from the genocide you’re defending.

 

[Vonsalza]

Pointing out the historical use of a euphemism does not detract from the genocide you’re defending.

No, its showing that you’re inconsistent in what you consider to be a person. If they’re people, miscarriage does not get a free pass. Like every death of a person, it requires an explanation. What caused it?

The police will be very busy under your rules…

 

[HopkinsReb]

HopkinsReb:

Pointing out the historical use of a euphemism does not detract from the genocide you’re defending.

No, its showing that you’re inconsistent in what you consider to be a person. If they’re people, miscarriage does not get a free pass. Like every death of a person, it requires an explanation. What caused it?

The police will be very busy under your rules…

If there is reason to think that a miscarriage was an abortion, it should be investigated as a murder. Otherwise, it should not. All the abortions in the genocide you’re defending should be treated as murders, though.

Or do you think that every time someone dies of illness, there should be an investigation to be sure that someone didn’t deliberately infect or poison him?

 

[Elf01]

At this point, I’m only concerned with the “law of the land”.

The law of the land at one point defined black people as not fully human. I think you would disagree with that. I’m not concerned with the law. I want a definition of humanity that I can use to make laws.

They don’t pay taxes nor vote in the next election, for example.

Nor do infants. Do they not have humanity?

Because while in the womb, it’s biologically a part of the mother and thus under her will, since she has control over her body.

If we weren’t talking about pregnancy but conjoined twins who share a vital organ. If separated now one will die and the other will live. If they wait nine months both have a goid chance of survival. The twin who wouls survive want to separate immediately. Does her right to her iwn body override her twins right to life?

 

[Vonsalza]

If there is reason to think that a miscarriage was an abortion, it should be investigated as a murder.

So we just take mom and/or dad’s word on it, eh?

If I suddenly turned up dead, I’d hope someone looked into it…

Or do you think that every time someone dies of illness, there should be an investigation to be sure that someone didn’t deliberately infect or poison him?

If they die in a way know to be consistent with their known illness, no need, I’d imagine. But otherwise? Yup. Check the hospital for any Dr. Death’s we’ve often heard about.

My goodness. How many more crime investigators would we have to hire if you had your way?

 

[pnewton]

I’m not pro-abortion. I’m pro choice.

As I said, I will never use that term. I too am pro-choice for most things. I am not pro-choice for abortion, slavery, rape, etc. The term is meaningless.

 

[HopkinsReb]

So we just take mom and/or dad’s word on it, eh?

If I suddenly turned up dead, I’d hope someone looked into it…

Why would you hope that? You think murder is acceptable, since you’re defending genocide.

If they die in a way know to be consistent with their known illness, no need, I’d imagine. But otherwise? Yup. Check the hospital for any Dr. Death’s we’ve often heard about.

You are not responding to the claim I made. Under your ridiculous view of how criminal justice works, every time somebody dies of an infectious disease, there should be a police investigation to make sure someone hadn’t secretly snuck into their home and exposed them to it. After all, even if there’s no evidence of foul play, apparently we have to investigate any death as if there might have been.

My goodness. How many more crime investigators would we have to hire if you had your way?

Probably none. I would like to hire a few more prosecutors to handle the abortionists carrying out the genocide you’re defending.

 

[Vonsalza]

The law of the land at one point defined black people as not fully human. I think you would disagree with that. I’m not concerned with the law. I want a definition of humanity that I can use to make laws.

As stated ad nauseam, there isn’t one that would satisfy both of us. Thus we must default to the woman’s right to choose what happens to her body.

Nor do infants. Do they not have humanity?

When they’re no longer biologically depended on their mother, she no longer has the right to determine what happens to them as part of her body.

If we weren’t talking about pregnancy but conjoined twins who share a vital organ. If separated now one will die and the other will live. If they wait nine months both have a goid chance of survival. The twin who wouls survive want to separate immediately. Does her right to her iwn body override her twins right to life?

I’m having a hard time understanding what it is you’re saying here, but the principle remains the same. When inside moms body, they’re part of mom. She gets to decide what happens to her body.

 

[Vonsalza]

After all, even if there’s no evidence of foul play, apparently we have to investigate any death as if there might have been.

Lol, you discovered that there was no evidence of foul play… by investigating.

 

[HopkinsReb]

HopkinsReb:

After all, even if there’s no evidence of foul play, apparently we have to investigate any death as if there might have been.

Lol, you discovered that there was no evidence of foul play… by investigating.

So you do think that literally every death that occurs should be investigated to rule out foul play? That’s a weirdly thorough view of murder investigations from someone who defends genocide.

 

[Vonsalza]

So you do think that literally every death that occurs should be investigated to rule out foul play?

Yup. Odd you seem to disagree, being pro-life and all.

 

[Ender]

Personhood is a progression. Birth is a critical step that completely separates you, biologically, from your mother.

If personhood exists only at birth then it is not a progression, it is an event, and as I said before it is something extrinsic to the fetus. It is not determined by the nature of the fetus but by the nature of its environment.

 

[HopkinsReb]

HopkinsReb:

So you do think that literally every death that occurs should be investigated to rule out foul play?

Yup. Odd you seem to disagree, being pro-life and all.

Being pro-life means that I have to support a murder investigation for every single person who ever dies for any reason whatsoever?

You make really bizarre claims to twist my words. I guess it’s not surprising from an admitted defender of genocide.

I don’t think there should have been a murder investigation for my dad, though I suppose it’s theoretically possible that my mom could have been slipping him things in his food that increased the risk of pancreatic cancer.

 

[Victoria33]

Abortion is big money, I don’t know if one is in the USA but it appears there are already calls for infanticide, no kidding and this is what the pro-abortion side brings us, willingly or not. This with governor Northam in Virginia is but one example.

The whole equation is being changed and no, I don’t believe most abortions are obtained by women in their 30s either.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Personhood is a progression. Birth is a critical step that completely separates you, biologically, from your mother.

If personhood exists only at birth then it is not a progression, it is an event,

No, progression. Huge jump at birth. Before if you suddenly died, there’d be no investigation, more than likely. After? Your death warrants looking into.

At 18 you can participate in state elections and the military and smoke and own a rifle.

At 21 you can own a handgun and drink booze.

At 25 you can run for congress.

At 35 you can run for prez.

Progression.

 

[Vonsalza]

Being pro-life means that I have to support a murder investigation for every single person who ever dies for any reason whatsoever?

I should hope so.

You make really bizarre claims to twist my words. I guess it’s not surprising from an admitted defender of genocide.

No, your position just isn’t as consistent as you think it is.

I don’t think there should have been a murder investigation for my dad, though I suppose it’s theoretically possible that my mom could have been slipping him things in his food that increased the risk of pancreatic cancer.

Without intending to be mean, the subject being your late father, the coroner absolutely carried out an investigation when he filled out your father’s death certificate. Now, it may not have been a production of CSI, but he looked into it and made his determination.

 

[HopkinsReb]

I should hope so.

That’s ridiculous, but it’s what I expect from a supporter of the mass slaughter of infants. This is, quite frankly, the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard from a member of the pro-infant-dismemberment camp, but hey, it’s good to be surprised now and again.

No, your position just isn’t as consistent as you think it is.

It’s just as consistent as I think it is.

Without intending to be mean, the subject being your late father, the coroner absolutely carried out an investigation when he filled out your father’s death certificate. Now, it may not have been a production of CSI, but he looked into it and made his determination.

No, he didn’t look into whether someone deliberately increased my father’s risk factors for cancer, so he didn’t really check into whether there was foul play.

 

[Vonsalza]

That’s ridiculous, but it’s what I expect from a supporter of the mass slaughter of infants.

The name-calling is tiresome and inconsistent with someone actually trying to have rational discourse.

It’s just as consistent as I think it is.

Quite right.

No, he didn’t look into whether someone deliberately increased my father’s risk factors for cancer, so he didn’t really check into whether there was foul play.

Sure, he didn’t look into whether your grandmother putting talc on his baby-bottom in those early days contributed to his untimely demise. Sure.

But per the requirements of his job, he had to do at least a little searching. It’s what he gets paid to do.