Issues other than abortion

[goout]

Children are always dependent on someone for care.

It’s good to note at least a small amount of progress here.
We admit that human beings can be helpless, and still human beings, right? Being dependent does not disqualify one from human rights.
Is that correct?

Am I hearing you correctly?

 

[Vonsalza]

Now on that we agree. Thank God for the proliferation of birth control.

 

[Sbee0]

Sbee0:

Yes, “personhood” is something that is exactly what man (or woman) says it is and nothing more. I couldn’t have said it better.

Yes. Identical to “rights”.

Separation of church and state goes both ways of course, it was originally meant to protect religious faith from goverment meddling.

What’s a little closer to the truth is that America was already somewhat religiously pluralist and no one wanted a situation where a Christian sect they didn’t like ruled the government.

Nope there’s no need to be nudged “closer” to anything, I’m spot on as it is. Thanks for the offer though. LOL.

Separation goes both ways and was always meant as such by the founders. See clause, establishment and clause, free exercise.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Children are always dependent on someone for care.

It’s good to note at least a small amount of progress here.
We admit that human beings can be helpless, and still human beings, right? Being dependent does not disqualify one from human rights.
Is that correct?

Am I hearing you correctly?

No progress, I’m afraid.

I can show you a few hundred posts back where I acknowledge some limited personhood on the part of the fetus.

The reality of it doesn’t override the personhood of the mother.

Choice on the part of the woman is a logical necessity.

 

[goout]

goout:

Vonsalza:

Children are always dependent on someone for care.

It’s good to note at least a small amount of progress here.
We admit that human beings can be helpless, and still human beings, right? Being dependent does not disqualify one from human rights.
Is that correct?

Am I hearing you correctly?

No progress, I’m afraid.

I can show you a few hundred posts back where I acknowledge some limited personhood on the part of the fetus.

The reality of it doesn’t override the personhood of the mother.

Choice on the part of the woman is a logical necessity.

Ok. Child is “strictly dependent” in your words. And that disqualifies it from humanity.
ok…
Or is an infant 3/5ths of a person.
Hey, you were born at the wrong time and place.

 

[goout]

Yes, I know. Your ethical construct is better than being human.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

goout:

Vonsalza:

Children are always dependent on someone for care.

It’s good to note at least a small amount of progress here.
We admit that human beings can be helpless, and still human beings, right? Being dependent does not disqualify one from human rights.
Is that correct?

Am I hearing you correctly?

No progress, I’m afraid.

I can show you a few hundred posts back where I acknowledge some limited personhood on the part of the fetus.

The reality of it doesn’t override the personhood of the mother.

Choice on the part of the woman is a logical necessity.

Ok. Child is “strictly dependent” in your words. And that disqualifies it from humanity.
ok…
Or is an infant 3/5ths of a person.
Hey, you were born at the wrong time and place.

No, it’s not disqualified from humanity. It just doesn’t override the personal autonomy of mama.

I’m not trying to enslave women goout. Pro lifers are.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

The difference is peril. A fetus bodily threatens a woman

How high are those rates?

 

[Vonsalza]

Doesn’t matter. You dont get to choose for mama when it’s too high or not high enough.

For Pete’s sake, please stop trying to control women. While there is doubt about whether fetuses are people, we all certainly know women are people.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

While there is doubt about whether fetuses are people, we all certainly know women are people.

Life is more important than choice.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Doesn’t matter. You dont get to choose for mama when it’s too high or not high enough.

Making the exception the rule is bad logic.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

While there is doubt about whether fetuses are people, we all certainly know women are people.

Life is more important than choice.

Not in America.

“Give me liberty or give me death”

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Give me liberty or give me death”

She does have other liberties. And there are many other restrictions to what is allowed and not allowed here.

 

[Vonsalza]

This is not a decision you get to make for her.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

It’s definitely possible.

 

[Vonsalza]

It’s definitely possible.

Oh sure, any expression of fascism as possible.

Just be aware though that the state that can ban abortion can also order it

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Just to be aware though that the state that can ban abortion can also order it

I don’t follow. Abortion is already legal here.

 

[Vonsalza]

Sure, it’s legal but not mandated. So again a state that can ban abortion can also order, or mandate it in situations it deems desirable.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

That’s the state’s problem.

 

[Vonsalza]

Uhhh… okay…

(???)