Issues with Divine Mercy Devotion

  • Thread starter Thread starter Virginia804
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
The nun who I saw in the video is in the same order, and said that though the end times are not known, they are still set, and this devotion shows it is the end times. I say, STOP THINKING ABOUT IF THIS IS THE END TIMES AND FOCUS ON CHRIST JESUS!!! I know way too many who talk of this or that prophecy about how this is the end times. I am concerned that people are too interested in this question because it makes this time period “more important” somehow. What if the end times is not for another 10,000 years. I pray it is a long way off to give people more time to repent and come to God.
 
I have read a different opinion of this issue. Here, it is stated the Octave day of Easter has always been liturgically connected to Divine Mercy.
I am sorry but I have no idea how to reasonably understand that.

The Divine Mercy devotion was a 20th century development, meaning it was non-existent in the Catholic Church before that.

Easter, of course, goes back to the origins of the Christian Church.

Can you please clarify? Thanks.
 
I am sorry but I have no idea how to reasonably understand that.

The Divine Mercy devotion was a 20th century development, meaning it was non-existent in the Catholic Church before that.

Easter, of course, goes back to the origins of the Christian Church.

Can you please clarify? Thanks.
The whole Easter season is a celebration of God’s Mercy. He gave us Jesus, the Crucified
One, to save us from our sins. Isn’t that Mercy? Why not have Divnie Mercy Sunday in
the Easter season. It magnifies the reason for Easter just that much more.

As I have stated before, this devotion is just a devotion. There are many forms of
devotions to chose from. If you have problems with this one, try another. Devotions are
meant to bring you closer to God. Whether this be through Jesus, Mary, the Holy Spirit
or the Saints and Angels. Devotions are just what they say they are–Devotions. If you
chose one or none, it is a personal choice. I don’t think God thinks anything less of a
creature who doesn’t follow a certain devotion for whatever reason.

God Bless!
 
I am sorry but I have no idea how to reasonably understand that.

The Divine Mercy devotion was a 20th century development, meaning it was non-existent in the Catholic Church before that.

Easter, of course, goes back to the origins of the Christian Church.

Can you please clarify? Thanks.
I think the article that I referred to does an excellent job of explaining in depth how and why the Divine Mercy celebration is a renewal of a liturgical celebration with ancient orgins, and not new. I suggest you read the article. It is simply another viewpoint.
 
Angels Unaware gave the excellent article to read.

If you have a problem with the date of the feast, you have to talk with Jesus about that. He, Himself, stated that it was to be that particular day. Not the Pope or St Faustina. It was Jesus. Now I don’t argue with Him about what He wants, do you?😃

God Bless!
 
Jesus said it was to be on that date? Where does it say that in scripture? Or do you mean it was in the diary? Does the Church regard what is in the diary as the same level of scripture?:confused:
 
Jesus said it was to be on that date? Where does it say that in scripture? Or do you mean it was in the diary? Does the Church regard what is in the diary as the same level of scripture?:confused:
Yes it is in the diary. May I ask a question? Do you believe in the Lourdes and in the Fatima messages? If so, why?

I ask this because these we given the Saints also to help us on the road to God. Scripture, in my opinion, gives us the whole story of Redemption (from Gensis to Revelations) and how to achieve this state in our own lives. In the Apostles Creed we state that we believe in “the communion of Saints”. Do we then think they would make false statements about what our Blessed Mary said or Jesus, our Savior has said? If you believe in Saints and their messages, why is it so hard to understand St Faustina’s message from Jesus?

I am not trying to be rude, I am trying to understand your position in regard to the Divine Mercy devotion.

God Bless!
 
As I said initially, I have problems with the devotion:
I don’t think it’s a good idea to elevate saying confession on one day more than others;
I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell people they have to say certain prayers with exact words;
I don’t think describing this as a second baptism is wise (what’s wrong with one);
I don’t think studying a diary should replace studying scripture;
I don’t like the suggestion that this devotion is proof we are in the end times,
and so on.

I find in the writings of the mystics a mixture of what seems to be genuine touches from God with their own private agendas. I think St. Fautina’s experience of the image of Christ was genuine, and also to have it painted; not sure about the rest.
And I don’t know what was said at Fatima but my faith is in Christ.
 
As I said initially, I have problems with the devotion:
I don’t think it’s a good idea to elevate saying confession on one day more than others;
I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell people they have to say certain prayers with exact words;
I don’t think describing this as a second baptism is wise (what’s wrong with one);
I don’t think studying a diary should replace studying scripture;
I don’t like the suggestion that this devotion is proof we are in the end times,
and so on.

I find in the writings of the mystics a mixture of what seems to be genuine touches from God with their own private agendas. I think St. Fautina’s experience of the image of Christ was genuine, and also to have it painted; not sure about the rest.
And I don’t know what was said at Fatima but my faith is in Christ.
Once again, you are confusing the plenary indulgence with the revelation. The plenary indulgence requires confession, for obvious reasons. You must be in a state of grace to receive an indulgence.

I am confused about your insistence that the revelation says prayers have to be said a certain way. No more so than the rosary.

If somebody described this as a second baptism, they were wrong. That’s not what’s going on.

I also don’t understand why you have this odd idea that the revelation of any saint would replace scripture.

We are in the end times. Jesus told the disciples that we are in the end times 2000 years ago.

I am baffled at where you perceive a private agenda in the writings of St. Faustina.

Are you Catholic? You don’t sound like it.
 
As I said initially, I have problems with the devotion:
I don’t think it’s a good idea to elevate saying confession on one day more than others;
I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell people they have to say certain prayers with exact words;
I don’t think describing this as a second baptism is wise (what’s wrong with one);
I don’t think studying a diary should replace studying scripture;
I don’t like the suggestion that this devotion is proof we are in the end times,
and so on.

I find in the writings of the mystics a mixture of what seems to be genuine touches from God with their own private agendas. I think St. Fautina’s experience of the image of Christ was genuine, and also to have it painted; not sure about the rest.
And I don’t know what was said at Fatima but my faith is in Christ.
If you attend Mass then you do pray prayers with exact words. If you pray the Hail Mary, you pray exact word. The same with the Our Father. The Hail Mary is not in Scripture, nor is the exact wording of the Our Father that we use. I don’t get the second baptism thing at all. I just believe there is no hidden agendas with the Saints. For what end did St Faustina gain? Her life at the convent was horribly humilating by others there, she was physically sick with TB, and her writings were ordered by Father Sopocko due to time constraints in confession. They were not made public until she was already dead.

The promises that Jesus made for Divine Mercy includes going to confession. I try and go weekly for myself because I am a sinner and can always find sin within myself. It is not a matter of one day being better than others, it is the special graces involved. Going to confession frees the soul from sin if it is contrite and thus opens it to recieving more graces. This is what we strive for. To be the image of Jesus, at all times. Jesus was sinless, that is where we want to be. Confession is a tool given to us to keep our souls pure. We go and empty ourselves of sin and then are filled with graces. On Divine Mercy Sunday we are guarenteed even more graces for ourselves and for those who need it more than ourselves.

As far as studying the diary versus Scription. I do both. I also study other saints writings. They did not get to be saints without God. So if they are saints, they have something that I want. A more substantially united heart with Jesus. This is what I want and they have the know how. Scripture gives me foundations for my faith and the saints reaffirm it.

No one likes end times. I seriously wonder why. Is it because our souls are not ready if He should come today? That is a scary thought. That is why I stated earlier in a post, that I live each day as if it were my last. Who knows but God when the end will be. I don’t really think of it daily or even monthly. The book of Revelations is my least favorite. I think the point of our lives is to do God’s Will daily. Our own death is a reality more so than the “end times”.

As I have said before, there are a great many devotions out there. Only most of them have exact workings and prayers. The Rosary is one of them. If you don’t see the value in one try another.

God is always calling us to worship. Some do it through prayers and devotions, others do it through services rendered to those in need, and some do it by spreading the Good News their entire life. It doesn’t have to be all or one. It is what is most comfortable between you and God!

God Bless from the mercy swimmer.
 
As I said initially, I have problems with the devotion:
I don’t think it’s a good idea to elevate saying confession on one day more than others;
As a person in the pew, you and I don’t have to think it is a good idea or a bad one. The liturgy falls under the authority of the Holy See. I hate to be blunt, but they are not interested in what the man in the pew thinks is a good or a bad idea. They are interested in what is consistent with the scripture and the teaching magisterium of the Church. If something is consistent, then it is assumed by the Church’s authorities.
I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell people they have to say certain prayers with exact words;
But the Church does this all the time. The prayers of the sacraments must be said in a very specific way. The prayers in the Liturgy of the Hours must be said in a very specific way. The prayers at the profession of vows of religious, must be said very specifically or the profession is invalid. The rosay must be said in a very specific manner or it’s not the rosary. I’ll give you an example from my own religious community. If we fail to say “our Holy Father St. Francis” and simply say “St. Francis” in the rite of profession, the vows are illicit and the rite has to be repeated to make it legal.
I don’t think describing this as a second baptism is wise (what’s wrong with one);
When you say that something is AS something else, you are making an analogy, not an equality. There is difference. The analogy here is that the plenary indulgence leaves you free of all culpability of sin, as you were after your baptism. Therefore, if you die in this state, you do not go to purgatory. Confession can forgive your sin, but justice requires that you purge the culpability in purgatory, even though you have been restored to sanctifying grace.
I don’t think studying a diary should replace studying scripture;
The Church has never said that the study of the diary replaces the study of scripture. She only says that the diary is consistent with scripture. Therefore, it is worthy of belief.
I don’t like the suggestion that this devotion is proof we are in the end times, and so on.
The phrase “the end times” is allegorical. It does not mean that the world is going to end shortly. The term was used by St. Paul, St. John and the prophets. The term refers to the fulfillment of God’s promise to save humanity.
I find in the writings of the mystics a mixture of what seems to be genuine touches from God with their own private agendas.
If you believe that their writings contain private agendas, then you question the writer’s honesty. In which case you would have to question the Church’s infallibility when it declares these writings to be of the Holy Spirit and works of theology that contain the truth. We would have to question why the Church would declare so many mystics Doctors? A doctor is a Latin term for one who teaches truth. If someone like St. Teresa of Avila is a Doctor, she is a teacher of truth. Her writings cannot contain hidden personal agendas. Otherwise, the Church has made a grave mistake, a doctrinal mistake or a teaching mistake. But the Church allows us to teach theology from the writings of the mystics and to use them to better understand revelation.
I think St. Fautina’s experience of the image of Christ was genuine, and also to have it painted; not sure about the rest.
If the Church believes that the request to celebrate Mercy Sunday on the Sunday after Easter, it is because it is consistent with the liturgical calendar and consistent with the faith of the Church. The Church prays as she believes and believes as she prays. Therefore, the content regarding Mercy Sunday was not a novel idea, but one that is consistent with what the Church has always believed but never included in its liturgical calendar. This happens all the time. We often add to our liturgical calendar, whether it be a saint’s feast day, an event or a truth of faith, such as God’s mercy.
And I don’t know what was said at Fatima but my faith is in Christ.
It is our faith in Christ that tells us that what Faustina wrote and saw is legitimate. How do we know this? Because everything that she saw and wrote is consistent with Christ’s teachings about the mercy of the Father.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
As a person in the pew, you and I don’t have to think it is a good idea or a bad one. The liturgy falls under the authority of the Holy See. I hate to be blunt, but they are not interested in what the man in the pew thinks is a good or a bad idea. They are interested in what is consistent with the scripture and the teaching magisterium of the Church. If something is consistent, then it is assumed by the Church’s authorities.

But the Church does this all the time. The prayers of the sacraments must be said in a very specific way. The prayers in the Liturgy of the Hours must be said in a very specific way. The prayers at the profession of vows of religious, must be said very specifically or the profession is invalid. The rosay must be said in a very specific manner or it’s not the rosary. I’ll give you an example from my own religious community. If we fail to say “our Holy Father St. Francis” and simply say “St. Francis” in the rite of profession, the vows are illicit and the rite has to be repeated to make it legal.

When you say that something is AS something else, you are making an analogy, not an equality. There is difference. The analogy here is that the plenary indulgence leaves you free of all culpability of sin, as you were after your baptism. Therefore, if you die in this state, you do not go to purgatory. Confession can forgive your sin, but justice requires that you purge the culpability in purgatory, even though you have been restored to sanctifying grace.

The Church has never said that the study of the diary replaces the study of scripture. She only says that the diary is consistent with scripture. Therefore, it is worthy of belief.

The phrase “the end times” is allegorical. It does not mean that the world is going to end shortly. The term was used by St. Paul, St. John and the prophets. The term refers to the fulfillment of God’s promise to save humanity.

If you believe that their writings contain private agendas, then you question the writer’s honesty. In which case you would have to question the Church’s infallibility when it declares these writings to be of the Holy Spirit and works of theology that contain the truth. We would have to question why the Church would declare so many mystics Doctors? A doctor is a Latin term for one who teaches truth. If someone like St. Teresa of Avila is a Doctor, she is a teacher of truth. Her writings cannot contain hidden personal agendas. Otherwise, the Church has made a grave mistake, a doctrinal mistake or a teaching mistake. But the Church allows us to teach theology from the writings of the mystics and to use them to better understand revelation.

If the Church believes that the request to celebrate Mercy Sunday on the Sunday after Easter, it is because it is consistent with the liturgical calendar and consistent with the faith of the Church. The Church prays as she believes and believes as she prays. Therefore, the content regarding Mercy Sunday was not a novel idea, but one that is consistent with what the Church has always believed but never included in its liturgical calendar. This happens all the time. We often add to our liturgical calendar, whether it be a saint’s feast day, an event or a truth of faith, such as God’s mercy.

It is our faith in Christ that tells us that what Faustina wrote and saw is legitimate. How do we know this? Because everything that she saw and wrote is consistent with Christ’s teachings about the mercy of the Father.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
Your Good!!!😃
 
It is most unfortunate that your exposure to this devotion was in this way. Most of it was opinion. You should take what she said as a grain of salt.

May I ask who the nun is, and what the video is, as I may know this woman? The gloom and doom stuff is going around these days, but, it’s not official stuff.

I think it is a temptation of the enemy to keep you away from this devotion altogether. It is beautiful, and powerful. Obviously, Our Lord knew of these dark days to come. Frankly, I would be somewhat in despair without the reassurance of the Divine Mercy.

You may be a melancholic who should avoid some of the mystics like St. Teresa of Avila, or even Faustina’s diary. It moves us to a kind of despair.

You sound like the type to stick to St. Francis DeSales and St. Therese of Liseux (sp?), etc. You will be edifyed in your faith by it. They are both warm and encouraging, and, I envy St. Therese’s relationship with Jesus.

I was warned about this by a very holy priest who knew his stuff. As a spiritual director, he would forbid certain people to read certain things because of the strong nature of some of the stuff.

Certain personality types should stick with certain types of spirituality. There is something for everyone. Some people need to hear that gloom and doom to keep them motivated. Some need to concentrate on God’s affection and care. They are already motivated, and are sensitive souls.

But, don’t avoid a great devotion like the Divine Mercy. You would be missing out on graces galore. 🙂
 
I entered the Catholic Church at about 40, after being baptised at 14,
Virgina, what christian faith were you baptised in? I ask this, as the answer might help those of us who have been conversing with you, to understand why you seem to have so much reticence when it comes to believing anything about the catholic faith except what is written in scripture.

May God’s blessing be upon you.
 
Angels Unaware gave the excellent article to read.

If you have a problem with the date of the feast, you have to talk with Jesus about that. He, Himself, stated that it was to be that particular day. Not the Pope or St Faustina. It was Jesus. Now I don’t argue with Him about what He wants, do you?😃

God Bless!
Really?

Jesus stated that?

WOW! How cool!

But I’m a bit sad, I’ve been a Catholic Christian all my life, and Jesus never told me…why not?

I certainly would not argue with Jesus.

So…please help…whom did Jesus tell?
 
I have read a different opinion of this issue. Here, it is stated the Octave day of Easter has always been liturgically connected to Divine Mercy.

thedivinemercy.org/mercysunday/dms.php

The Meaning of the Day
Clearly, Divine Mercy Sunday is not a new feast established to celebrate St. Faustina’s revelations. Indeed, it is not primarily about St. Faustina at all — nor is it altogether a new feast! As many commentators have pointed out, The Second Sunday of Easter was already a solemnity as the Octave Day of Easter; nevertheless, the title “Divine Mercy Sunday” does highlight and amplify the meaning of the day…"
Yes, we can all find opinions to support our personal preferences and beliefs.

Please, let’s be honest here, this is a completely new feast…this was unheard of, unimagined, and never referenced prior to the later 20th century.
 
Yes, we can all find opinions to support our personal preferences and beliefs.

Please, let’s be honest here, this is a completely new feast…this was unheard of, unimagined, and never referenced prior to the later 20th century.
Regardless, the point is that the Church finds the celebration of God’s mercy consistent with her teachings and with the liturgical calendar. In this regard, there is nothing new, except a new solemnity, not a new concept.

Solemnities are introduced and deleted from the Roman liturgical calendar quite often. In fact, there are very few solemnities celebrated by the universal Church. Most are celebrated by episcopal conferences and by religious orders. For example, I was a missionary in South America, the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption are not solemnities there. They are feast days. In Ecuador, where I was stationed, the feast of St. Francis and the feast of St. James the Greater are solemnities and holy days of obligation, because these are the patron saints of the country.

In Europe and the Middle East, some Eastern Catholic Churches celebrate Easter at the same time as the Orthodox, not with the Roman Church and Mercy Sunday is celebrated the week after, which places it about two weeks after our celebration.

The point is that the liturgical calendar is really quite flexible as long as it is consistent with Church law, scripture and doctrine.

This year the Franciscans skip the Tuesday of the Third Week of Easter to celebrat the feast of Bl. Luchesio, the first Secular Franciscan Brother. The Dominicans skipped the the Wednesday of the Third Week of Easter to celebrate the feast of St. Catherine of Siena, the Secular Dominican and Doctor of the Church.

This year October 4 falls on a Sunday. Every parish and every religious house staffed by Franciscans will not celebrate the Sunday, but will celebratae the Solemnity of St. Francis. It overrides the Sunday and is a holy day of obligation for Franciscans and their parishes. This has been approved by Pope Benedict.

Case in point, the liturgical calendar is not written in stone. The Church prays as she believes and believes as she prays.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
= In fact, there are very few solemnities celebrated by the universal Church.
Examples? Solemnities are not, to my knowledge, left to the decision of particular regions or conferences.

To be honest, I can’t believe your statement is correct about the Immaculate Conception and Assumption not being Solemnities. Can you PLEASE provide some Church teaching to substantiate your claim/recollection? They may not have been Holy Days of obligation, but that is completely separate from whether or not they are Solemnities.

Anxiously awaiting your clarification.
In Europe and the Middle East, some Eastern Catholic Churches celebrate Easter at the same time as the Orthodox, not with the Roman Church and Mercy Sunday is celebrated the week after, which places it about two weeks after our celebration.

The point is that the liturgical calendar is really quite flexible as long as it is consistent with Church law, scripture and doctrine.
I again find it very hard to believe it’s true that Eastern Catholics celebrate Easter in accordance with the Orthodox Church (whom they are not in communion with) rather than the Catholic Church (whom they are in communion with). Again, please, for my own enlightenment at least, can you provide some reference for this? I freely admit I don’t know as much about the Eastern Catholic Churches as I’d like, but what little I do know leads me to believe your claim cannot be fact.
 
Examples? Solemnities are not, to my knowledge, left to the decision of particular regions or conferences.

To be honest, I can’t believe your statement is correct about the Immaculate Conception and Assumption not being Solemnities. Can you PLEASE provide some Church teaching to substantiate your claim/recollection? They may not have been Holy Days of obligation, but that is completely separate from whether or not they are Solemnities.

Anxiously awaiting your clarification.
This was a decision of the CELAM (Conferencia Episcopal de Latino America) Latin American Episcopal Conference. The reason is actually very simple. The concept of solemnity in Spanish culture is different from our own. Solemnity in the Spanish culture means a high holy day, which is normally a holy day of obligation. Therefore, they use the word “feast” when it is not a holy day of obligation. It is a language issue, not a theological one. They still maintain feast by classes (first, second and third). They have no memorials either. They have solemnities and feasts.
I again find it very hard to believe it’s true that Eastern Catholics celebrate Easter in accordance with the Orthodox Church (whom they are not in communion with) rather than the Catholic Church (whom they are in communion with). Again, please, for my own enlightenment at least, can you provide some reference for this? I freely admit I don’t know as much about the Eastern Catholic Churches as I’d like, but what little I do know leads me to believe your claim cannot be fact.
I didn’t know this myself until I read about it in this thread by Eastern Catholics/Byzantine Catholics.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=245308

Hoope that helps.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
Yes, we can all find opinions to support our personal preferences and beliefs.

Please, let’s be honest here, this is a completely new feast…this was unheard of, unimagined, and never referenced prior to the later 20th century.
Is it so hard to believe that Jesus would come in the last hundred years or so? Does it have to be long, long ago to be worthy of Him? People are so easy to say this could not be. When in fact Jesus has provided us with Saints for the whole of the 2000+ years since His Death and Resurrection. Why can only miracles occur in years gone by? Why can’t He chose a new Feast Day? Is it not for Him to decide what He wants and when?

It would be wonderful if Jesus communicated to each of us personally in the way He does the saints. Chosen ones have especially hard lives and are tested continously in ways we can only dream about. Their loyalty and faithfulness to God is ever-consusming. Are you willing to give up your life as it is and to completely live for God alone? They lead an extraordinary life that most of us are not willing to live. It requires so much more than going to Church weekly or daily. It is more than giving alms to the poor or donating your time for others. Saints have a big responsiblity to do exactly what God says to do and with no hesitation, no matter what it costs them in the long run. They sacrifice their lives for God’s Will. How many of us are truly deserving or willing to endure what a saint goes through. I wish Jesus would come and talk to me also, only I know that my soul is not pure enough and my love for God is not strong enough. It is my desire to strive to become like St Faustina. This is the epitome of “success” that I could attain on this earth. I trust in the saints word and so does the Church. I trust the Pope and what he says goes in my book. The teachings of the Church are infalliable and I chose to believe what she says. I don’t always agree with her (Church) , yet, I so as she instructs.

God Bless
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top