Issues with specific church hymn

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vz71

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OK, I am at Mass this past Sunday, and the choir breaks out with this bizarre song that I have not heard before.
After a few minutes of listening, I determined this is not something that has any place in a Catholic Mass. But I am stuck as to what specific doctrinal problems there are.
Perhaps because the song stays so vague it is hard to nail down anything.

Having been stumped, I am bringing the lyrics here.
Please help me with this. I want to present a coherent argument before the parish priest why this hymn should never be sung in the church again, but I need specific church teaching that is being subverted.
Just an opinion that it is annoying is hardly cause to ban it.

So here are the lyrics:
Here in this place, new light is streaming,
now is the darkness vanished away.
See, in this space, our fears and our dreamings,
brought here to you in the light of this day.
Gather us in - the lost and forsaken,
gather us in - the blind and the lame.
Call to us now, and we shall awaken,
we shall arise at the sound of our name.
We are the young - our lives are a mystery,
we are the old - who yearn for your face.
We have been sung throughout all of history,
called to be light to the whole human race.
Gather us in - the rich and the haughty,
gather us in - the proud and the strong.
Give us a heart so meek and so lowly,
give us the courage to enter the song.
Here we will take the wine and the water,
here we will take the bread of new birth.
Here you shall call your sons and your daughters,
call us anew to be salt for the earth.
Give us to drink the wine of compassion,
give us to eat the bread that is you.
Nourish us well, and teach us to fashion
lives that are holy and hearts that are true.
Not in the dark of buildings confining,
not in some heaven, light years away,
but here in this place, the new light is shining;
now is the Kingdom, now is the day.
Gather us in - and hold us forever,
gather us in - and make us your own.
Gather us in - all peoples together,
fire of love in our flesh and our bone.
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The best I can come up with is that this “bread that is you” sounds more like consubstantiation rather then transubstantiation. And this “wine of compassion” is incorrect altogether.
Of course, like I said…it is vague.

Can anyone nail it down?
 
vz71 said:
OK, I am at Mass this past Sunday, and the choir breaks out with this bizarre song that I have not heard before.
After a few minutes of listening, I determined this is not something that has any place in a Catholic Mass. But I am stuck as to what specific doctrinal problems there are.
Perhaps because the song stays so vague it is hard to nail down anything.

Having been stumped, I am bringing the lyrics here.
Please help me with this. I want to present a coherent argument before the parish priest why this hymn should never be sung in the church again, but I need specific church teaching that is being subverted.
Just an opinion that it is annoying is hardly cause to ban it.

So here are the lyrics:

The best I can come up with is that this “bread that is you” sounds more like consubstantiation rather then transubstantiation. And this “wine of compassion” is incorrect altogether.
Of course, like I said…it is vague.

Can anyone nail it down?
Click to expand...
In my parish we have sung this song for years as an entrance hymn. it’s called “Gather Us In”. I am not fond of it, but not for theological reasons. I find it hard to sing and too wordy. Since Jesus Himself calls Himself the “Bread of Life”, I can’t see anything improper in the lines “the bread that is you.” That does not sound like Consubstantiation. Also, one of the Memorial Acclamations is “When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death, Lord Jesus, until you come again in glory.” So if you object to the word “bread” in the song, you probably would also object to that Memorial Acclamation, I would think, since it says “Bread” not Body, and “Cup”, not “Blood”. I don’t think you have an argument here, except that you don’t like the song.
 
vz71 said:
OK, I am at Mass this past Sunday, and the choir breaks out with this bizarre song that I have not heard before.
After a few minutes of listening, I determined this is not something that has any place in a Catholic Mass. But I am stuck as to what specific doctrinal problems there are.
Perhaps because the song stays so vague it is hard to nail down anything.

Having been stumped, I am bringing the lyrics here.
Please help me with this. I want to present a coherent argument before the parish priest why this hymn should never be sung in the church again, but I need specific church teaching that is being subverted.
Just an opinion that it is annoying is hardly cause to ban it.

So here are the lyrics:

The best I can come up with is that this “bread that is you” sounds more like consubstantiation rather then transubstantiation. And this “wine of compassion” is incorrect altogether.
Of course, like I said…it is vague.

Can anyone nail it down?
Click to expand...
I don’t really see any theological issues in the lyrics, but if it’s sung the way I think it is, I’m sure I’d hate it!

I sure wish church musicians had a proper sense of what is sacred music and what isn’t. Seems like my parish is the only one for miles that actually plays sacred, truly Catholic, music.
 
The only theological problem I can see would possibly be the line “not in some heaven, light-years away”. Are we as Catholics not meant to be desirous of heaven? Do we not pray for His Second Coming &c?
 
City_Smurf said:
The only theological problem I can see would possibly be the line “not in some heaven, light-years away”. Are we as Catholics not meant to be desirous of heaven? Do we not pray for His Second Coming &c?
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Not only that, it exposes Haugen’s Lutheran background. In a Catholic Mass, Heaven IS present right in front of us in the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
 
While I would consider this song to be “acceptable” from a strictly theoloical sense, I find it inappropriate for mass. My main issue is its focus, and the lyrics concern “we” as humans, “us” being drawn in by God, and other egocentric notions. Instead of extolling what we shall do for God, the song should rather focus on what God has done for us, as mass is a time to extoll the amazing nature of the Holy Trinity. It’s just far too anthropocentric for my taste.
 
Seems many are as stumped as I am.

Something pointed out to me though:
Here in this place, new light is streaming,
now is the darkness vanished away.
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Wait a sec…isn’t this place the Catholic church?
Isn’t God already present physically? Then what is this ‘new light’?
Surely there was not darkness there to ‘vanish away’…right?

Am I reaching here? Feels like I am.
But I also rarely have this type of gut reaction to a song. And this is coming from someone that heard bongo drums played during Mass.

Something is seriously wrong with the song.
 
Don’t like the song, wish it would go away like “Sons of God”.

😃
 
I have always hated this song and songs of it’s ilk. However, like you, I couldn’t p(name removed by moderator)oint exactly what is wrong with it. However, as I’ve been sitting here reading over the lyrics you posted, I can tell you at least the mentality that it is embodying, that is very troubling.

There is a great documentary out right now, you can see it on Netflix, called Helvetica. It is about the creation of the type-font “Helvetica.” It doesn’t speak about liturgy specifically, but it discusses the mindset in post-WW II Europe that believed if we brought everything down to a base level, made all things (street signs, products, clothing, type-face, religions, ect…) look the same there would be no more conflict. Everything would have clarity and there would be no more divisions.

This idea was very popular in places like Switzerland, Belgium, certainly in France and somewhat in Italy. Vatican II fathers, like, Hans Kung, certainly came out of this ethos. It didn’t only happen in the Catholic Church, it was also happening in Protestant churches. Leaders in most major denominations were getting together through various World Church Council gatherings to create within their denominations a church of sameness. That is, if all churches ‘looked alike’ we could overcome all our differences.

What is the next step of this philosophy? “The Global Ethic,” that is what these same people who wanted all churches the same in the 60s are calling for now. Hans Kung, father of Vatican II, is at the forefront of this movement now. Check it out on Youtube. The idea of no religion, just global standards of ethics that all must adhere to. And so we get in verse 4 of “Gather Us In:”

Not in the dark of buildings confining,
not in some heaven, light years away,
but here in this place, the new light is shining;
now is the Kingdom, now is the day.
 
Wasn’t there just a thread on “Gather us In” in latin a few days ago?

Doesn’t matter what they do to it, its horrible!
 
That hymn opened our Mass just yesterday. All I can say is that the folks gathered belted it out pretty well compared to some of the dreck we are exposed to. Personally I prefer some of the older hymns that are singable by the unwashed as well as the scripture based ones that were once sung by the St. Louis Jesuits. We use that Oregon hymn book which contains some pretty good stuff, but our "liturgist’ seems to be fascinated by the worst of the mixture. Why not The King of Glory, Holy God We Praise Your Name, etc.? The people know them and can sing them well, but “Oh, dear they don’t fit the feast or readings like these more contemporary ones do.” There are many we have never sung before, are totally unfamiliar with, but it fits and we WILL use it; only once till these particular readings occur again in the three year cycle. We were much better off without a Liturgist when the choirs chose the hymns for the day they were scheduled to sing. I cannot recall the last time we used the organ. Its piano or guitar or both along with drums. I think its because no one knows how to play an organ.:mad:
 
Brendan said:
Not only that, it exposes Haugen’s Lutheran background. In a Catholic Mass, Heaven IS present right in front of us in the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
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Wait a minute…you mean the author of this hymn is lutheran?
That would place a different light upon the lyrics.

It would certainly explain why the song doesn’t sound at all reflective of Catholic teaching.
 
doanli said:
Don’t like the song, wish it would go away like “Sons of God”.

😃
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Is that the one that goes like this, “Gather round the table of the Lord, Eat his Body Drink his Blood” to a sing-songy tune?
 
qui_est_ce said:
Is that the one that goes like this, “Gather round the table of the Lord, Eat his Body Drink his Blood” to a sing-songy tune?
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Sons of God
hear his holy word,
gather round the table of the Lord…

Yup, that be the one. Now I’ll probably have that ear work in my head all night and they’ll probably play it at the Celebration of the Word on Sunday.😃
 
Phemie said:
Sons of God
hear his holy word,
gather round the table of the Lord…

Yup, that be the one. Now I’ll probably have that ear work in my head all night and they’ll probably play it at the Celebration of the Word on Sunday.😃
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I hated it even in the '70’s high school. It so banal.
 
Whatever happened to the letter of Vatican II (yeah…those silly documents :rolleyes:), instead of the “spirit”?!?
 
vz71 said:
OK, I am at Mass this past Sunday, and the choir breaks out with this bizarre song that I have not heard before.
After a few minutes of listening, I determined this is not something that has any place in a Catholic Mass. But I am stuck as to what specific doctrinal problems there are.
Perhaps because the song stays so vague it is hard to nail down anything.

Having been stumped, I am bringing the lyrics here.
Please help me with this. I want to present a coherent argument before the parish priest why this hymn should never be sung in the church again, but I need specific church teaching that is being subverted.
Just an opinion that it is annoying is hardly cause to ban it.

So here are the lyrics:

The best I can come up with is that this “bread that is you” sounds more like consubstantiation rather then transubstantiation. And this “wine of compassion” is incorrect altogether.
Of course, like I said…it is vague.

Can anyone nail it down?
Click to expand...
in this there is no mention of whom we are talking about. there is no God or Jesus mentioned here. it could be addressed to anyone. the phrase not in some Heaven, it is awfull. the language treatment is awfull. but what do i know. most of the songs in teh Church today, are just as awfull.
 
wisdomseeker said:
the phrase not in some Heaven, it is awfull. the language treatment is awfull.
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How about “enter the s-o-o-o-o-o-n-n-n-g.” Who can hold their breath so l–o-o-o-n-n-n-g?

What does that mean, “enter the song?”
 
Phemie said:
Sons of God
hear his holy word,
gather round the table of the Lord…

Yup, that be the one. Now I’ll probably have that ear work in my head all night and they’ll probably play it at the Celebration of the Word on Sunday.😃
Click to expand...
Nah.

It’s politically incorrect now. ("SONS of God"); unless they’ve changed it to Kids of God or something. 😉
 
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