Issues with specific church hymn

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Melchior said:
If I’m not mistaken these “new norms” are just that the Mass parts are being re-translated and need new settings.
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While searching I found this little nugget
A trained musician with a number of published compositions to his credit, Keyes was particularly disturbed by the parish’s musical repertoire. At his first Mass, for example, t**he choir sang “Gather Us In,” whose third verse begins, “Not in the dark of buildings confining, not in some heaven light years away.” Keyes was frustrated that a Catholic hymn would appear to dismiss our desire for heaven. "I said to people at the parish, ‘That’s not what we believe!’ " says Keyes. **
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😛

uscatholic.org/church/2009/07/incoming-missal

I can’t find the link about the music. But in choir, we were told the music is all changing on the first Sunday of Advent, and a lot of the old music isn’t acceptable anymore. He doesn’t know which ones yet. The songs have to agree with Catholic Teaching and should reference the Trinity.
 
qui_est_ce said:
But in choir, we were told the music is all changing on the first Sunday of Advent, and a lot of the old music isn’t acceptable anymore. He doesn’t know which ones yet. The songs have to agree with Catholic Teaching and should reference the Trinity.
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See, I heard that too about the music changing with the revised missal. However, when I brought this up in the Liturgy & Sacraments room, the “liturgists” all said, no, no the music isn’t changing. qui est ce, what specifically have you heard?

It has been my experience that St Louis Catholics are very well informed. “Little Rome…”🙂
 
HCC said:
See, I heard that too about the music changing with the revised missal. However, when I brought this up in the Liturgy & Sacraments room, the “liturgists” all said, no, no the music isn’t changing. qui est ce, what specifically have you heard?
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I’m trying to get the information from our choir director. I have choir tonight, so I’ll ask him. I googled Catholic music but couldn’t find the link I was looking for.
It has been my experience that St Louis Catholics are very well informed. “Little Rome…”🙂
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Really? I never heard that. There are a lot of Catholics and Catholic schools are are more numerous than other places I’ve lived.
 
qui_est_ce said:
I can’t find the link about the music. But in choir, we were told the music is all changing on the first Sunday of Advent, and a lot of the old music isn’t acceptable anymore. He doesn’t know which ones yet. The songs have to agree with Catholic Teaching and should reference the Trinity.
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I’d love it if you could provide a link, otherwise it’s speculation. Could you ask your choir director for a source?

What is confirmed is that Mass parts are being changed, and they should have new settings (ie; music),
 
City_Smurf said:
The only theological problem I can see would possibly be the line “not in some heaven, light-years away”. Are we as Catholics not meant to be desirous of heaven? Do we not pray for His Second Coming &c?
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I don’t think it’s criticising the idea of desiring heaven, rather it’s criticising the mindset that heaven is remote, distant, unattainable, not really having anything to do with the here and now.

We pray, in the Our Father, for God’s will to be done on earth as it is in heaven - meaning that heaven can, after a fashion at least, be here and now. And all the mystics tell us that humans while on earth can attain mystical union with God - which is about as good a definition of heaven as you can find anywhere. Moreover the Church teaches us that this is attainable by all and that we should all strive towards is.

Fits in with Christ’s statement that ‘the Kingdom of God is within you’.

None of which makes me like the song any better, of course … 😛
 
Have another look at that hymn. It could just as easily be sung to the Devil. What’s Catholic or even Christian about it?
 
LilyM said:
I don’t think it’s criticising the idea of desiring heaven, rather it’s criticising the mindset that heaven is remote, distant, unattainable, not really having anything to do with the here and now.

We pray, in the Our Father, for God’s will to be done on earth as it is in heaven - meaning that heaven can, after a fashion at least, be here and now. And all the mystics tell us that humans while on earth can attain mystical union with God - which is about as good a definition of heaven as you can find anywhere. Moreover the Church teaches us that this is attainable by all and that we should all strive towards is.

Fits in with Christ’s statement that ‘the Kingdom of God is within you’.

None of which makes me like the song any better, of course … 😛
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I am not one who would be called a Traditionalist: Although I am very close to being one. Here is my comment on this song.

It is not a good song - period.
It will not last long.
It is not worth bothering about.
It isn’t Catholic. It is mush.

It is actually worse than kum-by-ya, if that is possible.
It is harmless and stupid.
 
HelenRose said:
It is not a good song - period.
It will not last long.
It is not worth bothering about.
It isn’t Catholic. It is mush.

It is actually worse than kum-by-ya, if that is possible.
It is harmless and stupid.
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I agree with everything except it not lasting long. It’s been around for 28 years & is very popular in many parishes. For my sins, I belong to such a parish. 😦
 
We sing this quite often at the beginning of mass. Don’t really like it myself. Then again, the music at my parish is plain horrible.
 
Bonnie said:
I agree with everything except it not lasting long. It’s been around for 28 years & is very popular in many parishes. For my sins, I belong to such a parish. 😦
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28 years is nothing. The Gregorian Chant will be with us another 2.000 years either here on Earth or in Heaven. This silly song will be gone, let us say, in another 15 years - 20 years at the utmost.

PS I am being rather silly. On a more serious note: I converted to the Catholic Church. I was active as a musician in a Protestant Church. This is a Protestant song. I agree that it has no place in a Catholic Hymnal but it will fade. Some of my friends who are Protestant decry the total lack of real decent music that is being produced for them also. It is a dumbing down of congregations.

When I was a child my grandmother took me to the Assembly of God Church. The congregation sang 4 part hamony and sang it well. I don’t think that many Protestant or Catholic Church congregations are learning that any more.

It isn’t necessary to dumb down music and I think in time people will get sick of it whether or not they are Catholic or Protestant.

Music doesn’t have to be difficult to be beautiful. Some of the most beautiful songs are very simple. But fluff is fluff and “Gather Us In” is fluff.
 
HelenRose said:
I am not one who would be called a Traditionalist: Although I am very close to being one. Here is my comment on this song.

It is not a good song - period.
It will not last long.
It is not worth bothering about.
It isn’t Catholic. It is mush.

It is actually worse than kum-by-ya, if that is possible.
It is harmless and stupid.
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I really agree with you. I never really liked it very much, nor do I know anyone who does. I cut it out a few years ago. Funny though, I like Kum Ba Ya, at least in principle. It is the same message as Veni Sancte Spiritu. But still I know what you mean.
 
Phemie said:
Sons of God
hear his holy word,
gather round the table of the Lord…

Yup, that be the one. Now I’ll probably have that ear work in my head all night and they’ll probably play it at the Celebration of the Word on Sunday.😃
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“Sons of God” by James Theim, OSB from the 1966 FEL recording, Mass for Young Americans

Note “Sons of God” like many other pieces of music that have found their way into the OF Mass wasn’t written to be used in Mass. The new form of the Mass wasn’t even promulgated by Paul VI until three years later in 1969.

Many pieces like this were written for use in CCD classes and worship sessions for children and youth outside of the Mass. Anyone interested in the background of this and other songs written prior to 1970 at a time when the *new Mass NO was not yet promulgated *can find extensive background in the podcasts by Ken Canedo which explore the cultural context of the 1960s in which those pieces were written, again, not expecting their songs would be used in a Mass, but rather in the classrooms and youth gatherings they were written to be used in. Sadly thanks to music leaders in parishes around the US many ended up in the Mass after the Mass of Pope Paul VI eventually became the OF of the Mass.

(“Sons of God” written by Br Theim is very close in sound to “Here We Are” written by Ray Repp for his 4th grad CCD class because Br Theim liked “Here We Are” and adapted it for his “Sons of God”. Podcast Chapter Six: Mass for Young Americans (Part 1))
 
Melchior said:
I’d love it if you could provide a link, otherwise it’s speculation. Could you ask your choir director for a source?

What is confirmed is that Mass parts are being changed, and they should have new settings (ie; music),
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I talked to my choir director and I stand corrected. The mass parts are being rewritten. He doesn’t know of any directive for changing the music to be more theologically Catholic.
 
qui_est_ce said:
I talked to my choir director and I stand corrected. The mass parts are being rewritten. He doesn’t know of any directive for changing the music to be more theologically Catholic.
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Thanks for checking back! Yeah, I thought that was the case. Technically we were both right though, as there will be some changes to some music 🙂
 
Melchior said:
Thanks for checking back! Yeah, I thought that was the case. Technically we were both right though, as there will be some changes to some music 🙂
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I’m still checking, though. I know I saw a website that specifically addressed appropriate wording for mass songs.
 
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