Issues with "the Rapture"

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I used to be among those seperated bretheren that baught into the fairy tale of the Rapture. Further study has confinced me that thi particular man-made dogma of fundamentalism is pure hogwash. Here are some of the issues I have with the Rapture:
1.) It can be found nowhere in early Christianity. It can’t even be found among the reformers like Calvin, Luther, and Wesley. It was invented in the late eighteenth century, but didn’t become popularized until the mid nineteenth century bu John Nelson Darby. Even among protestent beliefs, it is a new kid on the block.
2.)When compared with what was written about the end-times in ths Scriptures, it just doesnt match up! When Jesus compares the Kingdom of God to a wheat field what is said? Here is the parable from the NRSV-CE (Mtt. 13:24-30):

He put before them another parable: ‘The kingdom of heaven may be compared to someone who sowed good seed in his field; but while everybody was asleep, an enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and then went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared as well. And the slaves of the householder came and said yo him, “Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? where, then did these weeds come from?” He answered, “an enemy has done this.” The slaves said to him “Then do you want us togo gather them?” But he replied, “No; in the gathering the weeds you would uproot the wheat along with them. Let both of them grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Collect the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn”’

Jesus explains that He is the sower and the field is the world. The good seed are the faithful, and the bad seed are those who have been corrupted by the devil, who is the enemy. Lastly the reapers are angels who come at harvest time, or the end of the age. What happens, according to this parable? The evildoers of the world are taken away, leaving the faithful behind! The faithful are not gathered until after the evil are judged and cast into hell! This flies directly in the face of what we are told about the Rapture, where the faithful are “caught up” before the tribulation, leaving the wicked behind. Something does not match up here.
4.) We are going to have to endure troubles and persecutions. In fact a blessing comes along with persecution:

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prphets who were before you. (Mtt. 5:10-12)
There are lots of other things to be told, but this is enough to get the thread started.
 
I know… Why so many people buy into that stuff is beyond me. 🤷
Good job with getting that out there. 👍
 
I know… Why so many people buy into that stuff is beyond me. 🤷
Good job with getting that out there. 👍
Honestly, I cannot clim the credit. I have been listening to Scott Hahn and John Martignoni (If its misspelled, my apologies!)
 
Honestly, I cannot clim the credit. I have been listening to Scott Hahn and John Martignoni (If its misspelled, my apologies!)
At least you can remember what you learned! Whenever I hear something like that, it goes in one ear, waits until I think “Well, that makes sense!”, then goes out the other. 😊
 
At least you can remember what you learned! Whenever I hear something like that, in goes in one ear, waits until I think “Well, that makes sense!”, then goes out the other. 😊
It also helps that I used to be a CHICKlet Fundamentalist. I know their doctrines. So its less for me to study and learn anew.
 
Has anybody here read Jack Chick’s Last Generation? I mean it’s stuff like that sum up my reasons why I don’t buy into this Rapture nonsense. I mean come on. Every good “Christian” suddenly disappearing just like that? I mean isn’t that a little too… I don’t know…

Simple?

Mundane?

Boring even?

Come on people. The Rapture has gotta be the worst apocalyptic scenario that has ever been born out of the human imagination. The is the end of the world we’re discussing here. Give me an alien invasion! Armageddon! Heck! Have satan come out of the ground as a giant monster and put me in a mech to fight him.

Okay I know people are obviously going to say I’ve been watching too much TV, playing too many video games, or reading too many comic books (especially with that last one XD). But setting that aside, things like the Rapture just simply defy common sense. That’s all I’m saying really.

Besides, Imo, this world’s boring enough already. Are you going to tell me that the way it ends is also boring? :rolleyes:

I rest my case.
 
Has anybody here read Jack Chick’s Last Generation? I mean it’s stuff like that sum up my reasons why I don’t buy into this Rapture nonsense. I mean come on. Every good “Christian” suddenly disappearing just like that? I mean isn’t that a little too… I don’t know…

Simple?

Mundane?

Boring even?

Come on people. The Rapture has gotta be the worst apocalyptic scenario that has ever been born out of the human imagination. The is the end of the world we’re discussing here. Give me an alien invasion! Armageddon! Heck! Have satan come out of the ground as a giant monster and put me in a mech to fight him.

Okay I know people are obviously going to say I’ve been watching too much TV, playing too many video games, or reading too many comic books (especially with that last one XD). But setting that aside, things like the Rapture just simply defy common sense. That’s all I’m saying really.

Besides, Imo, this world’s boring enough already. Are you going to tell me that the way it ends is also boring? :rolleyes:

I rest my case.
I’m just curious why you read something by Jack Chick?!
 
I’m just curious why you read something by Jack Chick?!
1.) Humor (meaning something for me to roll my eyes at :rolleyes:)

2.) I need it to create people my characters can make fools out of. 😛
 
Good points, CW, and you’re right, there are many more. And I’ll add one more, but first I wanted to point out that we should be more specific with the terminology. There is nothing wrong with the word “rapture”, in fact, its our word! It comes from St. Jerome’s Latin Vulgate where St. Paul says we will be “caught up” (1 Thess. 4:17), which is “rapiemur” in Latin. The problem is saying that this “rapture” will occur before Judgment Day, which, as you pointed out, is a completely novel teaching. I like to simply say the “secret rapture”, that way it can apply to either pre- or mid-trib theories, which are not only false, but absurd - planes falling from the sky, cars crashing into each other, and the F.B.I. being called in to investigate all these missing persons!

But the whole idea of the saints being resurrected - “caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” And then Jesus bringing us back to earth to live with un-resurrected people on this decaying, dying planet for yet another 1000 years, is even more absurd! I like this verse:

“Neither do men pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.” (Matthew 9:17)

Why would God give us new, incorruptible, glorified bodies and put us back on this old, corrupted and decaying planet? He wouldn’t! No, there will be “a new heaven and a new earth”, for our new bodies - because that’s how God rolls!

scripturecatholic.com/second_coming.html
 
Many years ago back during the “Jesus freak” movement in the late 60’s I would of and did buy into that stuff. i would have actually believed the “Left Behind” books. As I have gotten much older and back into my Catholic roots i see the "Left Behind " stuff and rapture theology as mere propaganda and a smoke screen to get people away from actually living the Gospel message of Jesus. I remember attending churches where you’d think the only book was Revelations and about the only stuff from Jesus you heard was the apocalyptic stuff.
The Left Behind books and the Narnia series by Lewis are both apologetic novels but, in Lewis case he doesn’t make it so blatantly obvious he’s trying to convert you.
Also I’m sure it’s great comfort to the early Christian martyrs who become lion kibble that God will spare the church in the last days the horrors of the tribulation. A and B do not logically follow here. Also what about the people in Rwanda who died for their faith or the folks in Myanmar (Burma) who are dying for it now?
 
Many years ago back during the “Jesus freak” movement in the late 60’s I would of and did buy into that stuff. i would have actually believed the “Left Behind” books. As I have gotten much older and back into my Catholic roots i see the "Left Behind " stuff and rapture theology as mere propaganda and a smoke screen to get people away from actually living the Gospel message of Jesus. I remember attending churches where you’d think the only book was Revelations and about the only stuff from Jesus you heard was the apocalyptic stuff.
The Left Behind books and the Narnia series by Lewis are both apologetic novels but, in Lewis case he doesn’t make it so blatantly obvious he’s trying to convert you.
Also I’m sure it’s great comfort to the early Christian martyrs who become lion kibble that God will spare the church in the last days the horrors of the tribulation. A and B do not logically follow here. Also what about the people in Rwanda who died for their faith or the folks in Myanmar (Burma) who are dying for it now?
I thought both C.S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien were Catholic? (and BTW, why dont British authors use their names? G.K. Chesterton is another one!)
 
I used to be among those seperated bretheren that baught into the fairy tale of the Rapture. Further study has confinced me that thi particular man-made dogma of fundamentalism is pure hogwash. Here are some of the issues I have with the Rapture:
1.) It can be found nowhere in early Christianity. It can’t even be found among the reformers like Calvin, Luther, and Wesley. It was invented in the late eighteenth century, but didn’t become popularized until the mid nineteenth century bu John Nelson Darby. Even among protestent beliefs, it is a new kid on the block.
2.)When compared with what was written about the end-times in ths Scriptures, it just doesnt match up! When Jesus compares the Kingdom of God to a wheat field what is said? Here is the parable from the NRSV-CE (Mtt. 13:24-30):

He put before them another parable: ‘The kingdom of heaven may be compared to someone who sowed good seed in his field; but while everybody was asleep, an enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and then went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared as well. And the slaves of the householder came and said yo him, “Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? where, then did these weeds come from?” He answered, “an enemy has done this.” The slaves said to him “Then do you want us togo gather them?” But he replied, “No; in the gathering the weeds you would uproot the wheat along with them. Let both of them grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Collect the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn”’

Jesus explains that He is the sower and the field is the world. The good seed are the faithful, and the bad seed are those who have been corrupted by the devil, who is the enemy. Lastly the reapers are angels who come at harvest time, or the end of the age. What happens, according to this parable? The evildoers of the world are taken away, leaving the faithful behind! The faithful are not gathered until after the evil are judged and cast into hell! This flies directly in the face of what we are told about the Rapture, where the faithful are “caught up” before the tribulation, leaving the wicked behind. Something does not match up here.
4.) We are going to have to endure troubles and persecutions. In fact a blessing comes along with persecution:

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prphets who were before you. (Mtt. 5:10-12)
There are lots of other things to be told, but this is enough to get the thread started.
CW,
I agree. Jesus is coming back once!
The book,’ Left Behind ’ by Tim Lahaye and Jenkins talks about this event.
They also have made a movie about this. it’s an entertaining story but that’s it. 🙂

God bless,
jean
 
There will be a rapture. The Bible is clear that Christ is returning for His people, and when He does, they will be taken from the earth. But not all Christians agree as to when or how this will happen. What you are referring to is the eschatology of most dispensationalists called pre-millenialism. They believe that Christ will have a literal thousand year reign on the earth. But not until seven literal years of tribulation occurs, before which time Christ returns to rapture believers only to spare them. Then He returns again to reign on earth with His church, while residing in a literal temple in Jerusalem for one thousand years. After that is the judgment. It’s very complex to be sure. As compared to the simple, Jesus returns once and calls all of humanity to stand before Him in judgment.
 
I thought both C.S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien were Catholic? (and BTW, why dont British authors use their names? G.K. Chesterton is another one!)
C(live) S(tapels) Lewis was Anglican, fell away from the church during adolescence. His friends, J.R.R. Tolkien and others, were instrumental in his return, in his 30s, to the church into which he was baptised.

Excellent de-bunking of the rapture here, thanks.
 
I used to be among those seperated bretheren that baught into the fairy tale of the Rapture. Further study has confinced me that thi particular man-made dogma of fundamentalism is pure hogwash. Here are some of the issues I have with the Rapture:
1.) It can be found nowhere in early Christianity. It can’t even be found among the reformers like Calvin, Luther, and Wesley. It was invented in the late eighteenth century, but didn’t become popularized until the mid nineteenth century bu John Nelson Darby. Even among protestent beliefs, it is a new kid on the block.
2.)When compared with what was written about the end-times in ths Scriptures, it just doesnt match up! When Jesus compares the Kingdom of God to a wheat field what is said? Here is the parable from the NRSV-CE (Mtt. 13:24-30):

He put before them another parable: ‘The kingdom of heaven may be compared to someone who sowed good seed in his field; but while everybody was asleep, an enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and then went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared as well. And the slaves of the householder came and said yo him, “Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? where, then did these weeds come from?” He answered, “an enemy has done this.” The slaves said to him “Then do you want us togo gather them?” But he replied, “No; in the gathering the weeds you would uproot the wheat along with them. Let both of them grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Collect the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn”’

Jesus explains that He is the sower and the field is the world. The good seed are the faithful, and the bad seed are those who have been corrupted by the devil, who is the enemy. Lastly the reapers are angels who come at harvest time, or the end of the age. What happens, according to this parable? The evildoers of the world are taken away, leaving the faithful behind! The faithful are not gathered until after the evil are judged and cast into hell! This flies directly in the face of what we are told about the Rapture, where the faithful are “caught up” before the tribulation, leaving the wicked behind. Something does not match up here.
4.) We are going to have to endure troubles and persecutions. In fact a blessing comes along with persecution:

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prphets who were before you. (Mtt. 5:10-12)
There are lots of other things to be told, but this is enough to get the thread started.
You know, talk about the rapture bothers alot of people, but it don’t bother me. They say the rapture could take place any moment, but you could die any moment to. I don’t stop planing my life even though I know one day I will die. Don’t let it bother you so much. Love covers a multitude of sins. Key word SINS. If they are sinning love them anyway. As far as them being seperated brothers, your wrong the blood of Jesus adopted us as children of God and through the Holy Spirit we cry abba Father. I use to be a protestant hater and then a catholic hater, but the Lord told me one day “you want to go to heaven?” ah yea!! You can’t do it if you hate. Why Lord? Because God is Love! God Bless you and live everyday as though it was your last, because one day you will be right.
 
I thought both C.S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien were Catholic? (and BTW, why dont British authors use their names? G.K. Chesterton is another one!)
Tolkien was a catholic and Lewis might as well have been even though he was high church anglican. He has one of the best explanations on the necessity of purgatory I’ve eve read.
Lewis grew up in Northern Ireland hence a reluctance to jump the pond.
As far as the initial game don’t forget GB Shaw and i took a class on 20th century ethics in college mostly Brits and there was enough intials to require a whole box of alpha bits! The exception to the rule Oscar Wilde and Lady Wilde his mom but they were Irish by the grace of God.:irish3::shamrock2: I think it’s because Brittish kids get saddled with names like Clive Rupert, Cuthbert, Wilberforce, Clayborne, Leslie and Evelyne and these are the guys. There’s also Hermoine for the girls but, I digress.
 
There will be a rapture. The Bible is clear that Christ is returning for His people, and when He does, they will be taken from the earth. But not all Christians agree as to when or how this will happen. What you are referring to is the eschatology of most dispensationalists called pre-millenialism. They believe that Christ will have a literal thousand year reign on the earth. But not until seven literal years of tribulation occurs, before which time Christ returns to rapture believers only to spare them. Then He returns again to reign on earth with His church, while residing in a literal temple in Jerusalem for one thousand years. After that is the judgment. It’s very complex to be sure. As compared to the simple, Jesus returns once and calls all of humanity to stand before Him in judgment.
Unfortunately, the way the “rapture” is taught among Evangelicals is an invented doctrine that no one had heard of before Darby. To believe in this to accept the kind of “traditions of man” that Jesus condemned–the ones than turn the Scriptures into a lie. If I am wrong, do not spout your own words, but rather show me wrong, usng Scripture, Holy tradition, Magestertial teaching, the ECFs, something. If I am wrong, show me. DOn’t just spout opinion, which is all you have offered. Where is something you have with authority?
 
i have only recently learned that the whole rapture theory is hogwash thanks to a talk about it by michael voris it’s on his website st michael’s media or you can google one true faith

and here is an except of the talk on youtube

youtube.com/watch?v=ydI7KrjweeU
 
Before I really got into my faith, I read the Kid’s Left Behind Series (all 40 of them:D) and actually believed them. Now that I’m actually paying attention to my beliefs, I understand my mistake.
How can Protestants, who are supposed to believe sola scriptura believe in a rapture before Judgement Day?
🤷
 
Unfortunately, the way the “rapture” is taught among Evangelicals is an invented doctrine that no one had heard of before Darby. To believe in this to accept the kind of “traditions of man” that Jesus condemned–the ones than turn the Scriptures into a lie. If I am wrong, do not spout your own words, but rather show me wrong, usng Scripture, Holy tradition, Magestertial teaching, the ECFs, something. If I am wrong, show me. DOn’t just spout opinion, which is all you have offered. Where is something you have with authority?
I wasn’t sharing my opinion at all. I was merely stating the interpretations of dispensationalist pre-millenialists. I reject dispensational theology.
 
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