It is a miracle I may be wrong---

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IF THEY ARE IGNORANT THEIR IGNORANCE MUST BE INVINCIBLE OR THEIR IGNORANCE MUST REDUCE THEIR SIN (OF NOT ENTERING THE CHURCH) TO VENIAL-----IF THEY ARE IGNORANT AN THE IGNORANCE IS THEIR FAULT BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT OPENED THEIR HEART AND MIND OR FOR SOME OTHER REASON THEY VERY WELL MAY BE IN ETERNAL DANGER–THAT IS WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO CONVERT PROTESTANTS-STOP HUGGING AND KISSNG THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN OBVIOUS ERROR --BY ALL MEANS BE CHARITABLE BUT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT CALL A SPADE A SPADE AND STOP BEING WIMPS
 
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Milliardo:
Of all the Acts of this Council, which, it has been maintained, were numerous, only three fragments have reached us: the creed, or symbol, given above; the canons; the synodal decree. Taken from New Advent: newadvent.org/cathen/11044a.htm Further, look again for the link I posted above.
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Why do the canons and synodical decree links link the Ankyra and neocaesarea councils? Those are not what is in question.
 
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jimmy:
Why do the canons and synodical decree links link the Ankyra and neocaesarea councils? Those are not what is in question.
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I copied and pasted it from New Advent; it’s linked there. Dunno why it does the same here, so go figure. 🙂
 
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marineboy:
IF THEY ARE IGNORANT THEIR IGNORANCE MUST BE INVINCIBLE OR THEIR IGNORANCE MUST REDUCE THEIR SIN (OF NOT ENTERING THE CHURCH) TO VENIAL-----IF THEY ARE IGNORANT AN THE IGNORANCE IS THEIR FAULT BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT OPENED THEIR HEART AND MIND OR FOR SOME OTHER REASON THEY VERY WELL MAY BE IN ETERNAL DANGER–THAT IS WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO CONVERT PROTESTANTS-STOP HUGGING AND KISSNG THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN OBVIOUS ERROR --BY ALL MEANS BE CHARITABLE BUT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT CALL A SPADE A SPADE AND STOP BEING WIMPS
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redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/allcaps.htm
 
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Milliardo:
Of all the Acts of this Council, which, it has been maintained, were numerous, only three fragments have reached us: the creed, or symbol, given above; the canons; the synodal decree. Taken from New Advent: newadvent.org/cathen/11044a.htm Further, look again for the link I posted above.
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I want to add that when I said no saints mentioned the canon at necea, I was speaking of the canon of scripture, not the 20 canons that nicea promulgated.
 
I have to agree that they are in a state of heresy. No one can deny that, if you do then you are falling to the sin of relitivism.

I would say that there are many sincere protestants, but I would also say that there are many that are very unsincere. If they are sincere, then they will be open to the truth.
 
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marineboy:
It is a rariTYbut I may have ben wrong about a fact–I was tlaking to a heretic last nite about various things and of course utterly defeated him. However we disagrred ona minor point about the council of Nicea 325—he said that the Council issued a decree concerning the canon of scripture-- I didnt think Nicea did–as I researched it --it does look like he was right–although I cant seem to find the writing–does anyone know? or was it just discussed at the Council and nothing was put officially in writing in terms oF TEACHING-=----I KNOW YOU ALL ARE IN SHOCK THAT I MAY HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING BUT GET OVER IT AND HELP ME OUT
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I’m never shocked when you are wrong, Marineboy. I do find, however, your triumphalistic arrogance almost breathtaking, as witnessed in the highlighted area above. You would do well to learn from our Savior, who described Himself as “meek and lowly.”
You might find that a much handier tool in evangelizing all the poor Protestants who would burn in Hell otherwise.
 
How…if you have never known the truth…can you possibly be a heretic? You can be involved with a sect that is heretical, but the individual who genuinely does not know cannot be a heretic. Imagine the native in Africa whose only contact with Christianity was through the Church of Christ missionaries. Is he a heretic? Or is he simply a schismatic, separated from the Church? I believe option B. One of the priests on EWTN also states this. I’ll dig up his full response when I have a minute.
 
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Affirmed:
How…if you have never known the truth…can you possibly be a heretic? You can be involved with a sect that is heretical, but the individual who genuinely does not know cannot be a heretic. Imagine the native in Africa whose only contact with Christianity was through the Church of Christ missionaries. Is he a heretic? Or is he simply a schismatic, separated from the Church? I believe option B. One of the priests on EWTN also states this. I’ll dig up his full response when I have a minute.
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Technically, the African is then a pagan. A heretic is a Christian, denying the teachings of the Church, a schismatic is someone who removes themselves from communion with the See of Peter, and an apostate rejects Christianity post-baptism. I think those terms are correct, but I’m not 100% certain.
 
“A heretic is a Christian, denying the teachings of the Church”
Agreed. But if they are ignorant of the teachings of the Church, they cannot be a heretic. You simply cannot deny that which you have no knowldge of. I’ll try to find that piece of of EWTN I was talking about.
 
Affirmed said:
“A heretic is a Christian, denying the teachings of the Church”
Agreed. But if they are ignorant of the teachings of the Church, they cannot be a heretic. You simply cannot deny that which you have no knowldge of. I’ll try to find that piece of of EWTN I was talking about.
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I wasn’t arguing with your assertion, I was clarifying the terminology.
 
How…if you have never known the truth…can you possibly be a heretic? You can be involved with a sect that is heretical, but the individual who genuinely does not know cannot be a heretic.
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The difference being squabbled over is that of ***material ***versus ***formal ***sin. Both are sins, but the former may have diminished or no guilt due to ignorance. I say “may” as it is also quite possible that guilt may be increased due to ***affected ***ignorance.

So, it is correct to say that Protestants are heretics, materially speaking. Not all are heretics*** formally ***speaking.

See here: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sin for a discussion of material versus formal sin.
But if they are ignorant of the teachings of the Church, they cannot be a heretic.
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I disagree, if you mean material heresy. I agree if mean formal heresy. You don’t seem to be making a distinction where Catholicism does indeed make a distinction.
 
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marineboy:
It is a rariTYbut I may have ben wrong about a fact–I was tlaking to a heretic last nite about various things and of course utterly defeated him. However we disagrred ona minor point about the council of Nicea 325—he said that the Council issued a decree concerning the canon of scripture-- I didnt think Nicea did–as I researched it --it does look like he was right–although I cant seem to find the writing–does anyone know? or was it just discussed at the Council and nothing was put officially in writing in terms oF TEACHING-=----I KNOW YOU ALL ARE IN SHOCK THAT I MAY HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING BUT GET OVER IT AND HELP ME OUT
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Nicea issued twenty canons known to be authentic:​

piar.hu/councils/ecum01.htm

Muslims and others sometimes accuse the council of destroying inconvenient Biblical books, or of introducing paganism by means of it - ideas which are completely false.

Even I have been wrong on occasion - I can believe that others may have been 🙂 ##
 
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Affirmed:
But the Church does not regard those born into Protestantism as heretics. They are born into it through no fault of their own. The Protestant faith may be heretical, but it’s memebrs are schismatic. Separated.
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To be a heretic, one has to be a Catholic, and to deny what one knows to be a truth revealed by God, and to be obstinate in one’s denial.​

So - Protestants are not heretics ##
 
I think marineboy is awesome–GREAT RESPONSES ON THE DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO APOLOGETICS
 
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tpillip:
I think marineboy is awesome–GREAT RESPONSES ON THE DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO APOLOGETICS
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He may be right, but his approach may be a bit harse don’t you think ?

One can be 110% correct but if they scream it in your ear, you may not hear a word they say.

wc
 
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wcknight:
He may be right, but his approach may be a bit harse don’t you think ?

One can be 110% correct but if they scream it in your ear, you may not hear a word they say.

wc
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Just as you can’t see a brick if it hits you in the eye​

 
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