It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

[CPA2]

This argument does not make sense in a democracy where there are only two parties and each candidate will have some policies that agree with the church and some policies that do not.

EX. Bush was pro life but he started two wars and allowed the torture of detainees. If I had a pro-choice candidate who would not fight the two wars or torture detainees, then I would surely vote for them.

By “pro-choice” I assume that you mean “pro-death” candidates. No one gives these small human beings a choice.

Abortion deals with life. There is no issue, even all issues combined, that equal the seriousness of abortion. Abortion is the defining issue of our times.

When you vote for a candidate, you never get 100% what you want.

We, as Catholics, can argue about war and the killing that goes on. However, there is no wiggle room on abortion. It is murder.

 

[CPA2]

Not all issues are equal . The Pope made it Crystal clear that a Catholic could, in good conscience, support the Iraq war BUT not abortion. The fact you despised Bush did not give you the right to vote for a pro-abortion canidate.

Very good point!

 

[Doc_Keele]

CPA2 - yep, that’s right, anyone who doesn’t agree with you or kage_ar must be a moral relativist! Yes, we are truly in Stalinist Russia:thumbsup:
No one could possibly disagree with you in good conscience, could they?

 

[CPA2]

CPA2 - yep, that’s right, anyone who doesn’t agree with you or kage_ar must be a moral relativist! Yes, we are truly in Stalinist Russia:thumbsup:
No one could possibly disagree with you in good conscience, could they?

“If we do not soon stop the genocide of abortion in the United States, we shall run the course of all those that prove by their actions that they are enemies of God – total collapse, economic, social, and national. The moral demise of a nation results in the ultimate demise of a nation. God is not a disinterested spectator to the affairs of man. Life begins at conception. This is an unalterable teaching of the Catholic Church. If you do not accept this you are a heretic in plain English. A single abortion is homicide.”

“No other issue, not all other issues taken together, can constitute a proportionate reason for voting for candidates that intend to preserve and defend this holocaust of innocent human life that is abortion (Father John Corapi).”

 

[CPA2]

CPA2 - yep, that’s right, anyone who doesn’t agree with you or kage_ar must be a moral relativist! Yes, we are truly in Stalinist Russia:thumbsup:
No one could possibly disagree with you in good conscience, could they?

You are correct in comparing Communism with religion. Communism is a complete philosophy of life. Communism is different from all other secular systems. Unlike other secular systems, Communism seeks to control man’s inner life. Communism is a doctrine of salvation! It wants to control the whole man, body and soul!

The difference between Communism and Christianity is the difference between love and hate. Communism is the final logic of dehumanization of man, such as we find in the practice of abortion. Communist China practices abortion on a grand scale, and so does the United States. I think that Communist China has found an ally in the United States in carrying out its abuses of dehumanization!

 

[CPA2]

CPA2 - yep, that’s right, anyone who doesn’t agree with you or kage_ar must be a moral relativist! Yes, we are truly in Stalinist Russia:thumbsup:
No one could possibly disagree with you in good conscience, could they?

I was watching an atheist convention on T.V. the other day. Atheists seem to be paranoid about this country becoming a theocracy. We would have to completely change the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to have a union of Church and State in America. I can assure the alarmists in the atheist movement that the greater opposition to that change would come from the Catholics themselves.

 

[estesbob]

CPA2 - yep, that’s right, anyone who doesn’t agree with you or kage_ar must be a moral relativist! Yes, we are truly in Stalinist Russia:thumbsup:
No one could possibly disagree with you in good conscience, could they?

You can disagree with us in good conscience BUT you would also be disagreeing with our Church. As you are not a Catholic it would be very difficualt for you to understand why this matters to us. As Catholics we look to our Church for guidance-we form our consciences in accordance with their teachings. We ignore them at our own risk.

Just becuase your or my conscience tells me something is “right” doesnt make it so.

 

[CWBetts]

If there was a choice between an anti-abortion candidate with immoral policies on absolutely everything else, and a pro-choice candidate with moral policies on everything else, I’d have to vote for the latter as a matter of conscience.

This is monstrous. You would be willing to allow the deaths the truly innocent and defenseless, in effect become their executioner, for the sins of another? There is no possible moral issue, or combination of moral issues, that can equal the weight of the slaughter of the unborn. Why don’t you just come out and admit that you have accepted the erroneous position that they aren’t worthy of the same rights as the rest of humanity. The abortion issue is paramount. It supersedes all other issues.

 

[Doc_Keele]

This is monstrous. You would be willing to allow the deaths the truly innocent and defenseless, in effect become their executioner, for the sins of another? There is no possible moral issue, or combination of moral issues, that can equal the weight of the slaughter of the unborn. Why don’t you just come out and admit that you have accepted the erroneous position that they aren’t worthy of the same rights as the rest of humanity. The abortion issue is paramount. It supersedes all other issues.

Sorry, but that’s a ludicrous position to take. Voting sensibly make you an executioner? Please
I don’t accept your nonsensical straw man argument at all.

 

[CWBetts]

Sorry, but that’s a ludicrous position to take. Voting sensibly make you an executioner? Please
I don’t accept your nonsensical straw man argument at all.

I never said that voting sensibly makes you an executioner. Veoting for prop-abortion candidates is never sensible. I state again, there is no issue, or combination ov issues, that can equal the gravity of abortion.

 

[Doc_Keele]

I never said that voting sensibly makes you an executioner. Veoting for prop-abortion candidates is never sensible. I state again, there is no issue, or combination ov issues, that can equal the gravity of abortion.

You can repeat time after time, doesn’t make you either right or persuasive.

 

[CWBetts]

You can repeat time after time, doesn’t make you either right or persuasive.

What is equal to the slaughter of the innocents? I have said there are no issues with the same gravity. I have the Church backing me up. What issues do you think outweigh abortion?

 

[Doc_Keele]

What is equal to the slaughter of the innocents? I have said there are no issues with the same gravity. I have the Church backing me up. What issues do you think outweigh abortion?

The slaughter of the innocents refers to something else. The Church backing you up is not an argument, but an appeal to authority.

I don’t believe that one issue would decide how I vote full stop, although I couldn’t rule it out. A vote for a representative in the legislature is not like a vote in a referendum is it?

As it happens I tend to vote for CPA, which is pro-life, so my voting record is probably more pro-life than most Catholics in the UK.

 

[CPA2]

Doc Keele:

It is a bit of a paradox, isn’t it? I once tried to understand the bible so that I would have faith. That did not work. The bible did not make any sense to me. You must have faith in order to understand God’s word. Now the bible is coming alive for me and every word has meaning.

Our senses lead us to reason. Additionally, God made our reasoning ability to lead us to faith. However, we have short-circuited the process. Our reasoning ability does not lead us to God because our culture tears reason from its roots in God.

As you can see, reason has its roots in God. You may recall that the fruits of the Holy Spirit (God) are love, peace, wisdom, etc. However, that is not the way it is in the real world, is it? We live in a chaotic, unstable and evil world. We are more evil than at the time of Noah. If the origin of life is blind evolution, should we expect life to be any different than unstable and fluid?

Look at abortion. We murder over 4,000 unborn babies in the United States every day. Some on this forum would argue that abortion is “reasonable.” If man is reduced to matter, and therefore a thing, then it is “reasonable.” Reason loses its dominance and man has no other value than being an instrument of power.
Do you understand the true spirit of the Gospel? I think, based on your posts, that you do not understand the “spirit” of the Gospel, in spite of your intelligence.

Did the Pharisees “understand” the Scriptures? I think that they were good lawyers because they studied the Law. However, they were BLIND TO THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW.

I think that you have to separate the law of God into the words, with its range of interpretations, and the spirit in which it was given. Jesus condemned the Pharisees because they said that they could see, and yet they were blind.

 

[CWBetts]

The slaughter of the innocents refers to something else. The Church backing you up is not an argument, but an appeal to authority.

I don’t believe that one issue would decide how I vote full stop, although I couldn’t rule it out. A vote for a representative in the legislature is not like a vote in a referendum is it?

As it happens I tend to vote for CPA, which is pro-life, so my voting record is probably more pro-life than most Catholics in the UK.

Can you actually NOT dodge the question? What issue comes close to the gravity of abortion?

 

[Doc_Keele]

Can you actually NOT dodge the question? What issue comes close to the gravity of abortion?

It’s not dodging the question. You can’t mandate that I take a deontological approach. I would assess each voting decision individually.

 

[estesbob]

It’s not dodging the question. You can’t mandate that I take a deontological approach. I would assess each voting decision individually.

You are, of course, a single issue voter. For instance if a canidate ran in the UK who advocated rounding up all 7 years olds and killing them I doubt you would vote for them even if you agreed with them on every other issue. Why do you make an exception for abortion which causs far more carnage than killing all 7 year olds would?

 

[Doc_Keele]

estesbob please read post 113:thumbsup:

 

[estesbob]

estesbob please read post 113:thumbsup:

I did-now could you answer my question I posed in post #117?

 

[CWBetts]

It’s not dodging the question. You can’t mandate that I take a deontological approach. I would assess each voting decision individually.

You most certainly are dodging the question. You say that there are issues that would equal abortion. What are they?