It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

[CPA2]

The Taliban and the Crusaders practiced salvation by the sword. Today the people who practice violence are those who raise a "sword” against the unborn through abortion. The Catholic Church cannot force politicians to change their positions on abortion. However, the Church does ask these politicians to HONESTLY admit in public that they are not in “full union” with the Church.

“Catholic” politicians, who dissent in a public forum from the Catholic Church’s teaching on the right to life of all unborn children, freely do so. These politicians choose to separate themselves from the Church’s teachings. They also separate themselves from the Catholic community. They have abandoned the full Catholic faith. It is DISHONEST for such a person to express “communion” with Christ and His Church through the sacrament of the Eucharist. These politicians may not claim to be Christians, and yet disbelieve what the Church teaches. There is a split between what they profess to believe and their daily lives.

It does not take a bishop to excommunicate these politicians. These “Catholic” politicians have distanced themselves from Jesus Christ and His Church. They have excommunicated themselves. These politicians may not receive Holy Communion in any Catholic Church in the world! To do so would be a lie. It would be a scandal.

 

[estesbob]

. To follow that up with giving a speechsupporting abortion is so contrary to the teachings of the Church it talkes on breah away. I hope you do represent yourself as in anyway being in accoradnace with the teachings of the Cgurch when you give such a speech.

I misread your post-you are giving a speech on adoption, not abortion. Good for you.

 

[Garland]

Hi all, my earlier post said to call ones self CATHOLIC one must believe what the church teaches. Protestants left the truth when they left the CHURCH, and politicians, either party, who hold pro-death , abortion , views cannot be in submission to the will of CHRIST and say they are CHRISTIAN in any sence of the word. Its like saying I believe in life while killing everything you touch. I didnt bring the dems or repubs into the post. I said you believe JESUS is real or you dont. You follow him or you don`t. To say you love him and vote for an abortionist is a joke. I am CATHOLIC first, last and always. Blessings Garland

 

[Worthy5]

CPA2;6528892]The Taliban and the Crusaders practiced salvation by the sword. Today the people who practice violence are those who raise a "sword” against the unborn through abortion. The Catholic Church cannot force politicians to change their positions on abortion. However, the Church does ask these politicians to HONESTLY admit in public that they are not in “full union” with the Church.

“Catholic” politicians, who dissent in a public forum from the Catholic Church’s teaching on the right to life of all unborn children, freely do so. These politicians choose to separate themselves from the Church’s teachings. They also separate themselves from the Catholic community. They have abandoned the full Catholic faith. It is DISHONEST for such a person to express “communion” with Christ and His Church through the sacrament of the Eucharist. These politicians may not claim to be Christians, and yet disbelieve what the Church teaches. There is a split between what they profess to believe and their daily lives.

It does not take a bishop to excommunicate these politicians. These “Catholic” politicians have distanced themselves from Jesus Christ and His Church. They have excommunicated themselves. These politicians may not receive Holy Communion in any Catholic Church in the world! To do so would be a lie. It would be a scandal

My friend, this poster finds it amazing that you actually hold this view in such a strong way. You have no sense of the type of govt this country is founded on—a democratic-republic with limited govt powers.

The CC has no rubric of authority on issues of American law. This idea of mixing religion excessively with politics (ie the type of role govt plays in a free society) is striking. And the further that Church officials go down this road the more foolish they appear—not in the fact of being legally pro-life, its a reasonable position. But, to assert that one is separated from the Church because one believes at some early point the govt has no business usurping this decision from the individual by the use of govt police power is-------striking.

 

[estesbob]

My friend, this poster finds it amazing that you actually hold this view in such a strong way. You have no sense of the type of govt this country is founded on—a democratic-republic with limited govt powers.

The CC has no rubric of authority on issues of American law. This idea of mixing religion excessively with politics (ie the type of role govt plays in a free society) is striking. And the further that Church officials go down this road the more foolish they appear—not in the fact of being legally pro-life, its a reasonable position. But, to assert that one is separated from the Church because one believes at some early point the govt has no business usurping this decision from the individual by the use of govt police power is-------striking.

To believe that one can seperate their politics from their Faith is…striking.

 

[CWBetts]

My friend, this poster finds it amazing that you actually hold this view in such a strong way. You have no sense of the type of govt this country is founded on—a democratic-republic with limited govt powers.

The CC has no rubric of authority on issues of American law. This idea of mixing religion excessively with politics (ie the type of role govt plays in a free society) is striking. And the further that Church officials go down this road the more foolish they appear—not in the fact of being legally pro-life, its a reasonable position. But, to assert that one is separated from the Church because one believes at some early point the govt has no business usurping this decision from the individual by the use of govt police power in this matter is-------striking.

Why are there laws against anything? Aren’t all laws. by their nature, intrusions? If I want to beat my wife, why can’t I? It is my home! The government has no right to tell me how to run my home, or discipline my kids, or whether or not I want to use recreational drugs, or own slaves, etc… Your “reasoning” of preventing government intrusion is wholly without merit.

 

[Worthy5]

=estesbob;6529195]To believe that one can seperate their politics from their Faith is…striking

Really, well my friend, do you tell the Protestant community the same thing. What does Protestantism think of the Catholic Church----do you want that codified into law too? Its part of their faith. Please do tell.

 

[Worthy5]

CWBetts;6529198]Why are there laws against anything? Aren’t all laws. by their nature, intrusions? If I want to beat my wife, why can’t I? It is my home! The government has no right to tell me how to run my home, or discipline my kids, or whether or not I want to use recreational drugs, or own slaves, etc… Your “reasoning” of preventing government intrusion is wholly without merit

You can disagree with the distinction being made in Roe. It reasonable to be legally pro-life. That is not the point. The point is to accept the legal distinction made in Roe does not warrant being excluded from the Church.

Back to your example----well your wife is a born person not an early fetus intrinsically a part of a women’s body. The Court, the body that does have the rubric of authority on issues of American law, believed that distinction was significant in order to advance the policy of limited govt—a policy necessary for a free society.

Regards,

 

[CWBetts]

Really, well my friend, do you tell the Protestant community the same thing. What does Protestantism think of the Catholic Church----do you want that codified into law too? Its part of their faith. Please do tell.

Morality is not subjective. It is absolute. We are not calling for things like requiring Mass attendance, but for the moral imperative to preserve life. I am sure you can see the difference.

 

[estesbob]

Really, well my friend, do you tell the Protestant community the same thing. What does Protestantism think of the Catholic Church----do you want that codified into law too? Its part of their faith. Please do tell.

I dont see why it matters what the Protestant Community thinks of the Catholic Church. The Magestrium of the Catholic Church has a moral duty to confront intrinsic evil and do everything legally in their power to stop it. A Catholic has a moral duty to do the same. Just as those who support abortion have every right to see their view codified in law those who oppose it have every right to try and have it banned. As Catholics we dont have the choice of ignore the issue becuase it might confilct with our political views.

 

[estesbob]

You can disagree with the distinction being made in Roe. It reasonable to be legally pro-life. That is not the point. The point is to accept the legal distinction made in Roe does not warrant being excluded from the Church.

,

A Catholic can not support abortion either directly or indirectly. You are trying to split hairs I suspect to ratioanlize supporitng people who favor keeoing abortion legal.

 

[Worthy5]

=estesbob;6529307]I dont see why it matters what the Protestant Community thinks of the Catholic Church. The Magestrium of the Catholic Church has a moral duty to confront intrinsic evil and do everything legally in their power to stop it. A Catholic has a moral duty to do the same. Just as those who support abortion have every right to see their view codified in law those who oppose it have every right to try and have it banned. As Catholics we dont have the choice of ignore the issue becuase it might confilct with our political views

You indicated faith and politics cannot be separated. Look, no one said the Church should not speak out morally against abortion, as should ever catholic. But that does not mean a catholic must support a complete govt take over in this area using its police power or otherwise he/she is excluded from the Church.

 

[estesbob]

You indicated faith and politics cannot be separated. Look, no one said the Church should not speak out morally against abortion, as should ever catholic. But that does not mean a catholic must support a complete govt take over in this area using its police power or otherwise he/she is excluded from the Church.

Yet you seem to be quite comfortable to have the govt to use police power to allow abortion. One is not excluded by the Church-they exclude themsleves when they reject the teaching of the Church

 

[Worthy5]

estesbob;6529324]A Catholic can not support abortion either directly or indirectly. You are trying to split hairs I suspect to ratioanlize supporitng people who favor keeoing abortion legal.

No, this poster is for limiting govt power. A good Catholic should not support low wages that contributes to poverty for families, but does that mean a good catholic should support a law requiring a $ 100.00 minimum wage. Or rather one can if he/she wants but he/she should not be banned from the Church for doing so.

 

[CWBetts]

No, this poster is for limiting govt power. A good Catholic should not support low wages that contributes to poverty for families, but does that mean a good catholic should support a law requiring a $ 100.00 minimum wage. Or rather one can if he/she wants but he/she should not be banned from the Church for doing so.

Do you understand the concept of “intrinsic moral evil”? I mean seriously!

 

[Worthy5]

[estesbob;6529356]Yet you seem to be quite comfortable to have the govt to use police power to allow abortion.

No, that would be having the police arrest a women because she did not have an abortion.

One is not excluded by the Church-they exclude themsleves when they reject the teaching of the Church.

But that is just it—the Church has no teaching authority on issues of civil law. There is no authority or teaching to reject.

 

[Worthy5]

CWBetts;6529382]Do you understand the concept of “intrinsic moral evil”? I mean seriously!

Do you understand the concept of limited government? I mean seriously!
Look be legally pro-life—fine. Just do not say someone is not a Catholic because they are pro-choice. (excluding late terms and funding issues—the govt has to step in at some point)

 

[estesbob]

No, this poster is for limiting govt power. A good Catholic should not support low wages that contributes to poverty for families, but does that mean a good catholic should support a law requiring a $ 100.00 minimum wage. Or rather one can if he/she wants but he/she should not be banned from the Church for doing so.

You opinion and my opinion is irelvant. The Church teaches that abortion is an intrinsic evil and can not be supported either directly or indirectly. Nobody is banning anyone from the Church-people choose to exclude themselves by rejecting what she teaches. as Chesterson said “The gates of hell are locked form the inside”.

 

[CWBetts]

Do you understand the concept of limited government? I mean seriously!
Look be legally pro-life—fine. Just do not say someone is not a Catholic because they are pro-choice. (excluding late terms and funding issues—the govt has to step in at some point)

Someone cannot be Catholic without being Pro-Life. Procuring, assisting in, performing, or otherwise materially aiding in abortion earns one an automatic excommunication

 

[estesbob]

Do you understand the concept of limited government? I mean seriously!
Look be legally pro-life—fine. Just do not say someone is not a Catholic because they are pro-choice. (excluding late terms and funding issues—the govt has to step in at some point)

You need to take this up with the Church-I dont set the Doctrines. It matters not whether you convince anyone that supporting abortion is can be in any way reconciled with Church teaching and is not a grevious sin, The facts are as they are.