"it is finished"

[schulze43]

How do you respond to the protestant argument that says that since Jesus said that it is finished that means that we cant possibly have Jesus’ body and blood in the Eucharist and that the Sacrifice of Mass is not real…could someone please explain to me how to explain the Sacrifice of Mass? and what did Jesus really mean when He said it is finished??? any help is much appreciated thank you

 

[surritter]

I would respond by giving them the CD from Lighthouse Media where Scott Hahn explains the “Fourth Cup.” It will answer the Protestant challenge about “It is finished.” He shows how that statement from Jesus can be seen as the continuation of the Passover meal from the night before.

 

[beckycmarie]

I would respond by giving them the CD from Lighthouse Media where Scott Hahn explains the “Fourth Cup.” It will answer the Protestant challenge about “It is finished.” He shows how that statement from Jesus can be seen as the continuation of the Passover meal from the night before.

Also see this article:

September 1991)This Rock:
By Scott Hahn

It all started with a Sunday morning service at the local Evangelical church which my wife and I attended during our last year at seminary. The preacher had just finished an exciting sermon on the meaning of Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary. But something he said stuck with me. In the middle of the message, he raised a simple question: “In John 19:30, what did Jesus mean when he cried, ‘It is finished’? What does the 'it’ refer to?” Instantly the standard Evangelical answer came to my mind: Jesus’ words signify the completion of our redemption at that moment.

The preacher happened to be a fine Scripture scholar as well as one of my favorite seminary professors, so I was taken aback when he proceeded to show quite convincingly that Jesus could not have meant that. For one thing, Paul teaches that our redemption is not complete without Jesus being “raised for our justification” (Rom. 4:25). The preacher also showed how the standard Evangelical answer is taken from theology and read into the text (“eisegesis”), instead of being drawn from the text interpreted in context (“exegesis”). To my amazement, he candidly admitted he didn’t have a satisfying answer to his own question.

 

[MarcoPolo]

How do you respond to the protestant argument that says that since Jesus said that it is finished that means that we cant possibly have Jesus’ body and blood in the Eucharist and that the Sacrifice of Mass is not real…could someone please explain to me how to explain the Sacrifice of Mass? and what did Jesus really mean when He said it is finished??? any help is much appreciated thank you

They say that because they think we are making additional sacrifice, which we are not. There is one sacrifice. At mass, we participate in the one sacrifice of Christ and make it present.CCC#1330 The Holy Sacrifice, because it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ the Savior and includes the Church’s offering. The terms holy sacrifice of the Mass, “sacrifice of praise,” spiritual sacrifice, pure and holy sacrifice are also used, since it completes and surpasses all the sacrifices of the Old Covenant.

 

[Yankeegator7]

The Body and Blood that we have at Mass is the one sacrifice of the Holy Lamb of God. Everything in the Past moved toward this point in time and space and everything in the future goes back to it. I have always thought of it as time travel. Once and for all. Once and for ALL TIME. The Lord states that his flesh is real food and his blood is real drink and that they who do not have this have not life within them. Many of his followers turned away from him and stated, “Who could accept this saying, it is hard” and followed him no more. It is the perfect sacrifice that is always before the Father. It is the new Passover, just as you Catholic are the New Jew, the Family of God. Just as the OT Jew placed the lamb’s blood on the door and ate the Passover lamb in Exodus which allowed them to live, you now eat the perfect Passover Lamb that passes you over unto eternal life from Sin and Death… Pick up a copy of "The Lamb’s Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth"by
Scott Hahn, he explains it much better than I could ever hope to. Read some Karl Keating and many other Catholic authors and the Truth Shall Set You Free…

CCC#1330 The Holy Sacrifice, **because it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ **the Savior and includes the Church’s offering. The terms holy sacrifice of the Mass, “sacrifice of praise,” spiritual sacrifice, pure and holy sacrifice are also used, since it completes and surpasses all the sacrifices of the Old Covenant.

 

[Third_Day]

How do you respond to the protestant argument that says that since Jesus said that it is finished that means that we cant possibly have Jesus’ body and blood in the Eucharist and that the Sacrifice of Mass is not real…could someone please explain to me how to explain the Sacrifice of Mass? and what did Jesus really mean when He said it is finished??? any help is much appreciated thank you

Ask them what happenned when Jesus said " it is finished". The curtain of the Jewish Temple was torn, top to bottom. “It is finished” meant that the old covenant was finished and the old covenant passover was finished and the new covenant and the new covenant passover, the Lord’s Supper ( the Mass) was beginning…

Ask them if “it is finished” meant nothing else is needed then why did Christ have to rise from the dead?
If nothing else needed to be done why does Paul say “Jesus our Lord, who was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification” Rom. 4:25

Your Protestant friends claim that their sins are covered by the blood of Jesus. Ask them how is that possible when the blood of Jesus was shed 2,000 years ago?.

Their usual answer is that the blood of Jesus is still being applied to us from that one time sacrifice. That’s what the Mass is… It is the one time sacrifice still being applied to us.

Remember, Jesus told the Apostles that He would be with them always, even till the end of the world. He has kept His promise. He is with us always in the Eucharist.

 

[schulze43]

thanks for the help, that all makes great sense

 

[Ignatius]

How do you respond to the protestant argument that says that since Jesus said that it is finished that means that we cant possibly have Jesus’ body and blood in the Eucharist

Frankly, I don’t see how they can possibly think that it follows at all. I’d need a detailed explanation of how they think this logic works.
Also, it can’t all be finished or we wouldn’t be still here. I mean, the resurrection hadn’t even happened yet, so He couldn’t have meant that all is finished. When it is all finished is when He will come again and that will be the end of time. Until then, we are in this world and need all that the help that He gaves us for our pilgram journey until each of us comes to the end of our mission here.

 

[rsoto]

In a book about the Theology of the Body, it was said that one translation of the original words were “It is consumated.” Like in a marriage, consumated would mean to bring to fulfillment.

 

[neophyte]

How do you respond to the protestant argument that says that since Jesus said that it is finished that means that we cant possibly have Jesus’ body and blood in the Eucharist and that the Sacrifice of Mass is not real…

I’d ask him to show me where Sacred Scripture says “since Jesus said that it is finished that means that we cant possibly have Jesus’ body and blood in the Eucharist and that the Sacrifice of Mass is not real”, and insist that he show me a passage that uses the exact words he used. Don’t let him get away with pointing to a passage that says “ABC” and claiming that it means “XYZ”.

 

[Ignatius]

As I said before, Frankly, I don’t see how they can possibly think that it follows at all. I’d need a detailed explanation of how they think this logic works.
Also, it can’t all be finished or we wouldn’t be still here. I mean, the resurrection hadn’t even happened yet, so He couldn’t have meant that all is finished. When it is all finished is when He will come again and that will be the end of time. Until then, we are in this world and need all that the help that He gaves us for our pilgram journey until each of us comes to the end of our mission here.

I need an explanation of exactly how they get that, it does not logically follow at all. Can you help clarify how they arrive at that conclusion?

 

[schulze43]

Honestly I don’t know how they arrived at that conclusion I was a little bit puzzled at their argument lol

 

[dayofwrath]

Read the book the coin of the temple by Souheil Bayoud you will see how the wheel of time moved backward to 33 AD then to present and to the future by the Holy Spirit.It is a real story which affirm that the redemption of the Lord Jesus Christ is present today.Today is the key word,only we have to do is to repent and believe.Enjoy it and God bless you.
dayofwrath.

 

[pohickgeezer]

The Eucharist is what makes Catholicism. Scott Hahn has done a remarkable job of supporting our belief in the continuing sacrifice, in which we participate each time we receive Holy Communion. I thank the Prayer Warrior for referring us to “The Hunt for the Fourth Cup.” I recommend that everyone go to that article for the convincing arguments that Mr. Hahn makes. It will only take a few minutes to read.

 

[happilycatholic]

How do you respond to the protestant argument that says that since Jesus said that it is finished that means that we cant possibly have Jesus’ body and blood in the Eucharist and that the Sacrifice of Mass is not real…could someone please explain to me how to explain the Sacrifice of Mass? and what did Jesus really mean when He said it is finished??? any help is much appreciated thank you

schulze:

Well, I would first ask the person what do they think Christ meant. What is finished? His life, His ministry, His sacrifice? All couldn’t have been ‘finished’ because Christ still lives. If Christ still lives, He can and does move around us all the time. Obviously Christ’s ministry is not finished. The only thing finished is personal sacrifice for the sins of mankind. Besides, Christ Himself claimed as much. He claimed He was the Living God, sacrificed for all who believe in Him.

No one really knows what exactly Christ meant. The Church however believes that Christ is with us as He promised. What Christ said in that moment is not as important as what He said the night before at the Passover meal with the Apostles. Christ lives in the Eucharist because we don’t eat dead things. Dead sacrafices are unclean. Christ would not have instructed us to eat a simple object in His memory. Even the manna came from Heaven and so it had to have a living quality as nothing in Heaven is dead. If a person is eating crackers and drinking juice to remember Christ’s sacrifice, they are falling short. Christ was and is alive. When Christ said “the flesh is of no aval” He meant earthly things cannot help you. Crackers and juice are earthly objects holding absolutely no divine meaning or power.

Christ himself transformed the Bread and Wine into the elements of the Eucharist when He said He did. “This is my Body”. This was while He was still living as human, flesh and blood. Christ gave the Bread and Wine divine meaning and power.

Nothing you say will ever make anyone believe anything. A person has to feel something moving within them to believe in something. Pray for the person and offer what you believe.

God Bless,

HC

 

[james62]

Some great answers here! i would especially second (or third, or fourth!) the idea to listen to Hahn’s CD, “The Lamb’s Supper”. Great stuff on the Passover and the Eucharist…not leaving much room for the modern Protestant view of symbolism only. Since i am still (“officially”) a Protestant - though very Catholic i my heart - i’ve grown up hearing all of these Protestant one-liners and cliches thinking they are tearing down those Catholic “traditions of men”. But now that i’m looking deeper for the answers, i see how short of a distance their modern arguments really go.

As for “it is finished”, i would also then ask the Protestant what the meaning of the resurrection is if Jesus tells us that “it is finished” on the cross. Did the resurrection have nothing to do with “the plan”? Also, if they try the “gotcha” of saying they have put the host and wine under a microscope and found no platelets or bone marrow, i would ask the Prot if they believe “Jesus lives in their heart”. Of course they will say, “YES!”, then ask them if they were to undergo open heart surgery, would the doctors find a little tiny Jesus sitting in their aorta? This might give them something to ponder over time…

But listen to Hahn! Great stuff!

 

[usemelord]

The Fourth Cup and The Lamb’s Supper are certainly excellent sources. I like the way one of our local priests explained it. He said that Christ died once and only once; we are not sacrificing Him again at every Mass. Rather the Liturgy of the Eucharist is a “re-presentation;” that is, once consecration takes place Christ’s body and blood–His Real Presence–are being presented to us again and again every time we attend Mass. What an indescribable blessing for all of us.

 

[surritter]

The Fourth Cup and The Lamb’s Supper are certainly excellent sources. I like the way one of our local priests explained it. He said that Christ died once and only once; we are not sacrificing Him again at every Mass. Rather the Liturgy of the Eucharist is a “re-presentation;” that is, once consecration takes place Christ’s body and blood–His Real Presence–are being presented to us again and again every time we attend Mass. What an indescribable blessing for all of us.

A related story: For about a year, I had an email exchange with a Protestant who always griped about the “re-sacrificing” business.

I finally got him with this analogy: If a movie is shown on a TV network and broadcast to a million households, how many times was the movie aired? Once or one million times? He said “once, of course.” Well the sacrifice on the altar at Mass is the same thing! Jesus died once, but this sacrifice is “broadcast” through time and space to each Mass.

You see, he couldn’t grasp the idea of “transcending time” because he kept thinking about the historical fact of Good Friday. I agreed in the historical event, but showed him how each Mass “taps into” the sacrifice, just as each television “taps into” the movie.
Of course, we just went on to argue about other things then…

 

[pohickgeezer]

I understand that the Eucharistic celebration is ongoing, rather than repeated over and over, and that we individually join in on the celebration each time we receive Holy Communion. To me, that makes our individual opportunity to participate even more profound.

 

[happilycatholic]

A related story: For about a year, I had an email exchange with a Protestant who always griped about the “re-sacrificing” business.

I finally got him with this analogy: If a movie is shown on a TV network and broadcast to a million households, how many times was the movie aired? Once or one million times? He said “once, of course.” Well the sacrifice on the altar at Mass is the same thing! Jesus died once, but this sacrifice is “broadcast” through time and space to each Mass.

You see, he couldn’t grasp the idea of “transcending time” because he kept thinking about the historical fact of Good Friday. I agreed in the historical event, but showed him how each Mass “taps into” the sacrifice, just as each television “taps into” the movie.
Of course, we just went on to argue about other things then…

I LOVE THIS!

:bounce:

God Bless,

Hc