It is NOT immoral to vote for Democrats

[ChristMyLife]

but healthcare is a right anymore than affordable housing a right.

That is in direct opposition to Magisterial Church teaching.

If I show you the Magisterial teachings on those subjects, would you be willing to realign yourself with what the Church teaches?

 

[AZ42]

How can someone claim to be pro life if they see no problem with a poor person flinging themself off a bridge out of despair? Technically that’s not harming the common good…

But it is. Having people kill themselves harms the common good much like all murder. It creates a whole host of problems.

 

[ChristMyLife]

American Catholics need to look to Christ, and Church, first, and political party second.

Amen brother, spot on.

 

[AZ42]

If I show you the Magisterial teachings on those subjects, would you be willing to realign yourself with what the Church teaches?

I have seen no such documents ever saying affordable housing is a right, but if they exist, I would like to see them.

 

[Victoria33]

So you also believe what the Church says about the sanctity of life, so how can one vote Democratic then?

 

[RealisticCatholic]

There are non-negotiable Catholic issues, and THEN there is how some Catholics and Catholic organizations express these non-negotiable issues. Ultimately, they will express them in a way that gives you not only the ends but the means.

For example:

1. Church teaches non-negotiable that abortion is intrinsically evil.
2. Catholic organization X says that this means you must vote for someone who advocates for a sudden and absolute legal change whereby all abortions are not longer allowed, and for people pursuing abortion to be punished, and for there to be little else to prevent abortion other than its immediate illegality.

We cannot conflate these two.

 

[Augustinian]

I believe basic access to medicine and health care is a basic human right

A “right” to health care is contrary to US Constitution. Health care is a service, and if its a “right”, it means performing health care is an obligation for someone else and working to pay for that service is still someone else’s obligation.

Obligating others to do things- seems to be a violation of the 13th Amendment prohibiting slavery.

Further designating a “right” to health care doesn’t specify what level of health care is a “right”. Who gets a pacemaker, and who gets pain pills? I guess Death Panels can be established for that.

 

[ChristMyLife]

CCC 2288

"Life and physical health are precious gifts entrusted to us by God. We must take reasonable care of them, taking into account the needs of others and the common good.

Concern for the health of its citizens requires that society help in the attainment of living-conditions that allow them to grow and reach maturity: food and clothing, housing, health care, basic education, employment, and social assistance."

I told you I’m not spouting off some communist far left garbage - I’m simply calling for exactly what the Magisterium of Holy Mother Church teaches.

I can find you other references in the Magisterial teachings showing affordable housing and shelter are basic human rights, which the Church teaches her flock are supposed to support.

 

[Victoria33]

I believe charity has been carried out better by the Church and other organizations than the government.

Why stop then with this country? Let’s prioritize by need, that is Christian and some are in grater need. Let’s build homes and feed for example, all of Africa.

 

[AZ42]

Concern for the health of its citizens requires that society help in the attainment of living-conditions that allow them to grow and reach maturity: food and clothing, housing, health care, basic education, employment, and social assistance."

And I agree. I think this merely a matter of definition. You call is right of the individual, I call it an obligation of his fellow humans.

 

[Augustinian]

Concern for the health of its citizens requires that society help

“Society” is not synonymous with “government”, much less “US Federal Government”

 

[BornInMarch]

The idea is that the Democratic Party has being Pro-Abortion as one of it’s official planks (among other policies the church disapproves of).

 

[ChristMyLife]

Church says about the sanctity of life, so how can one vote Democratic then?

There are other issues besides opposing abortion - anti-abortion is only one of about a dozen pro life issues which a Catholic with a well formed conscience must consider when choosing a candidate.

Also, if a Catholic disagrees with certain things of a politicians platform, that doesn’t mean voting for them is suppoeting everything they support. It’s almost impossible to find a candidate who you literally agree 100% of the time with.

Lastly, one must consider the position of the particular candidate. Is a State Treasurer really going to make a difference in ending abortion?

 

[edwest]

All things considered, candidates who are for abortion should not be voted for. All voters should do their own research regarding candidates and use trustworthy sources, and look at recommendations from trustworthy groups. For those unfamiliar with the internet, they should contact a trustworthy group for information.

 

[Victoria33]

There are non-negotiable Catholic issues, and THEN there is how some Catholics and Catholic organizations express these non-negotiable issues. Ultimately, they will express them in a way that gives you not only the ends but the means.

For example:

1. Church teaches non-negotiable that abortion is intrinsically evil.
2. Catholic organization X says that this means you must vote for someone who advocates for a sudden and absolute legal change whereby all abortions are not longer allowed, and for people pursuing abortion to be punished, and for there to be little else to prevent abortion other than its immediate illegality.

We cannot conflate these two.

Yes, we can conflate the two and I won’t shirk my responsibility and support the Culture of Death and then, rationalize it. This is what Pope Benedict talked about the dictatorship of moral relevancy. Many Catholics would rather be executed than, find some convenient explanation that allows themselves to vote in such a manner. I find that idea absolutely repugnant.

 

[ChristMyLife]

believe charity has been carried out better by the Church and other organizations than the government.

I don’t.

My wife and I are both disabled. I’m a disabled US Military Veteran. You know who has been charitable and helped us survive? The US Govt which I served and our State Govt.

The only thing the Church has done for us is give us a $30 food voucher every 3 months…

We had an apartment fire where we lost everything. I told my Pastor and you know what the Church did for us? Nothing. Couldn’t even get a bed frame from the Church.

You know who did help us? The American Red Cross.

Back 5 years ago I was homeless and I visited a Priest for help. You know what help I got from the Church? Nothing. The Priest actually laughed and showed me pictures of the beautiful new home he was getting ready to move into.

Wanna know who did help? The State DHHS of where I live.

 

[AZ42]

There are other issues besides opposing abortion - anti-abortion is only one of about a dozen pro life issues which a Catholic with a well formed conscience must consider when choosing a candidate.

Some issues however, must carry more weight than others. Killing a person is far worse than not giving him affordable housing (something the democratic party is big on).

 

[twf]

The Holy Father disagrees with you. He has used that exact phrasing - basic health care as a basic right. The entire civilized world outside of the US disagrees with you. The idea of Catholics contesting that health care is a basic right would be absurd and unthinkable in any context outside of the US… the Church always ran hospitals when she could… as a solemn duty and obligation.

 

[Victoria33]

There are other issues besides opposing abortion - anti-abortion is only one of about a dozen pro life issues which a Catholic with a well formed conscience must consider when choosing a candidate.

Also, if a Catholic disagrees with certain things of a politicians platform, that doesn’t mean voting for them is suppoeting everything they support. It’s almost impossible to find a candidate who you literally agree 100% of the time with.

Lastly, one must consider the position of the particular candidate. Is a State Treasurer really going to make a difference in ending abortion?

Please cite the dozen pro-life issues you speak of. Okay, death penalty, we’ve got that though, I don’t know if the Vatican actually does call that a pro-life issue.

The Church stresses a stance against abortion I will not give in to moral relativism which seems to be what some are saying, Pope Benedict warned against this.

 

[ChristMyLife]

Back 5 years ago I was homeless and I visited a Priest for help. You know what help I got from the Church? Nothing. The Priest actually laughed and showed me pictures of the beautiful new home he was getting ready to move into.

Wanna know who did help? The State DHHS of where I live.