It is NOT immoral to vote for Democrats

[twf]

There was a time when Catholics were bound under pain of sin to tithe… at that time, the Church had resources comparable to the state. That is no longer the case.
(Except perhaps in a few states such as Germany where there still is an obligatory Church tax…).

 

[KMC]

1. As Catholics we are faced with a number of issues that are of concern and should be addressed, such as immigration reform, healthcare, the economy and its solvency, care and concern for the poor, and the war on terror. As Catholics we must be concerned about these issues and work to see that just solutions are brought about. There are many possible solutions to these issues and there can be reasonable debate among Catholics on how to best approach and solve them. These are matters of “prudential judgment.” But let us be clear: issues of prudential judgment are not morally equivalent to issues involving intrinsic evils. No matter how right a given candidate is on any of these issues, it does not outweigh a candidate’s unacceptable position in favor of an intrinsic evil such as abortion or the protection of "abortion rights."

• Bishops Farrell and Vann (emphasis mine)
  Catholic Pro-Life Committee - Civic Action

 

[ChristMyLife]

whether one voted for Barak Obama, who voted

IMO, neither those who voted for Obama or McCain or Romney did anything immoral - so long as they didn’t vote for any of them in defiance of the Church or in support of laws which are against Church teaching.

Anyone who voted for McCain because they are against taking care of the poor and marginalized did something equally as immoral as those who voted for Obama to support abortion.

Neglect of the poor and indiffernce to unjust wages and murder are both mortal sins - in fact, they are both “sins that cry out to heaven” - mortal sins which the Church considers especially heinous.

The sins that cry out to heaven:

• The “blood of Abel”: homicide, infanticide, fratricide, patricide, and matricide
• The “sin of the Sodomites”
• The “cry of the people oppressed in Egypt, the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan”: slavery and marginalization
• The “injustice to the wage earner”: taking advantage of and defrauding workers

 

[Victoria33]

You seemed to mention a chapter in Matthew where Jesus did not mention sexual sins much and talked about helping the poor. Well, the church has many martyrs whose aim was to help the poor, as well as feeding millions daily, helping some find jobs as our local church does, help with clothing and so on.

I mean, just for a minor example to the big picture, St. Vincent dePaul thrift stores try to funnel the money they make into helping the poor.

Some thrift stores helped for example, stray dogs and cats, animals. That’s a worthy pursuit as well.

 

[DENNYINMI]

I agree, but I’m not sure how so many democrats have the idea that republicans are “anti” those things?? Is putting a time limit on benefits for able bodied people, anti-life? I think not. I live in a red state that has never been blue, and we do provide Medicaid for children of low income families, and WIC, and food stamps etc and I don’t think anyone but the most radical far right people would be for not providing those things. Stop believing the rhetoric. Democrat politicians tell us republicans “hate the poor” because it’s really all they have. It’s like saying we are racist for wanting to put the brakes on ILLEGAL immigration. Just more name calling, as usual.

No name calling, you’re reading into a rhetoric I have not introduced, you either believe there is a problem or you don’t.
Where is the republican agenda for alleviating the health care problem that exists? 8 years of complaint about the ACA, 2 years of complete government control of house and senate, and nothing.
Lets face it. Other than a huge tax break for the wealthy ( as lower middle class, I haven’t seen the trickle down) and taking credit for an economy that was already on the uptake, where is the accomplishment the GOP would like to tout? For the average Joe that is…

 

[ChristMyLife]

mean, just for a minor example to the big picture, St. Vincent dePaul thrift stores try to funnel the money they make into helping the poor.

Some thrift stores helped for example, stray dogs and cats, animals. That’s a worthy pursuit as wel

It certainly is.

I’ve used and supported and donated to St. Vincent de Paul. A most worthy and venerable charity.

However, they are not equipped to help the poor with housing. For that I rely on the charity of the American people and the structures of the Department of Health and Human Services.

 

[vz71]

IMO, neither those who voted for Obama or McCain or Romney did anything immoral - so long as they didn’t vote for any of them in defiance of the Church or in support of laws which are against Church teaching.

It was never my intent to kill the man, I just intended to fire 5 bullets into him.

 

[Victoria33]

A simple yes or no will do. Your answer is evasive. This means, your talk of compassion is highly questionable if one voted for a radical abortion proponent like Obama.

Oh, sure, Obama and McCain were the equivalents and if one took it to Romney and Obama, there I think it is a real false equivalent.

Please do not speak of compassion to me. No pro-lifer is going to vote for Obama and the lack of compassion that one would vote for such is beyond me.

 

[Augustinian]

Anyone who voted for McCain because they are against taking care of the poor and marginalized did something equally as immoral as those who voted for Obama to support abortion.

People who voted for McCain because they are against helping the poor were folks who were sadly misinformed about McCain’s platform.

 

[DENNYINMI]

Please point to one Catholic who is pro birth but doesn’t care after the child is born.

I call a red herring. The point was health care, and I don’t see where the GOP has made any strides.
If you do, please advise.

 

[ChristMyLife]

simple yes or no will do.

About what?

No, I do not believe someone who voted for Obama out of good will and in compliance with Church teaching did anything immoral.

 

[Victoria33]

However, they are not equipped to help the poor with housing. For that I rely on the charity of the American people and the structures of the Department of Health and Human Services.

Again, the US has aided abortion mills of planned parenthood that target minority neighborhoods, spare me talk of government compassion. It’s already said, the government relies on Christian organizations. Charitable organizations will exist regardless of the government.

 

[Augustinian]

I call a red herring. The point was health care, and I don’t see where the GOP has made any strides.
If you do, please advise.

Both political parties are in favor of helping the poor in regards to health care.

The difference is that the Democrats are insisting on managing health care for everyone instead of just the indigent.

 

[ChristMyLife]

It’s already said, the government relies on Christian organizations. Charitable organizations will exist regardless of the government.

Excellent news.

Let’s work to fight against and change the things the Govt does wrong and work to support and build up those things it does right.

 

[DENNYINMI]

The difference is that the Democrats are insisting on managing health care for everyone instead of just the indigent.

I see. No homework regarding the ACA as of yet, eh?
Get back to me when you are ready to discuss it. The Conservative Heritage Foundation adored it.

Does it need some “working out”? I think so. But it was the beginning of a plan that was dissed for reasons unknown to me.

Do you pool your car insurance? Taxes for road service’s? Police? Fire? School systems?

And yet you see a problem with the pooling of resources for one of the most fundamental of needs that carries with it the possibility of wiping out a life savings after one catastrophe.

I question the priorities of the GOP within their right to life battle cry.

How do you care for something you cannot see, when you don’t care for something (someone) that you can??

 

[phil19034]

The sins that cry out to heaven:

• The “blood of Abel”: homicide, infanticide, fratricide, patricide, and matricide
• The “sin of the Sodomites”
• The “cry of the people oppressed in Egypt, the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan”: slavery and marginalization
• The “injustice to the wage earner”: taking advantage of and defrauding workers

OK – which bullet points on your list are OFFICIALLY SUPPORTED by the Democratic Party?
*infanticide (abortion is a form of infanticide)
*euthanasia (can be a form of fratricide, patricide, and/or matricide)
*sin of the Sodomites

Now, which positions are supported by the Republican Party? NONE.

• Some might say “cry of the foreigner” but the United States actually accepts a LARGE number of asylum seekers each year, and financially helps nations & people all over the world. The Republicans are NOT against immigrants. We are simply against people crossing the boarder illegally. We want people to come here without committing a felony to do so. Assume for a moment that you put a sign on your front door that says “room for rent” and the next day found that someone broken into your house in order to claim the bed for themselves. Would you be willing to rent them the room?
• some might say “injustice for the wage earner.” But this is not true. Republicans want everyone to have the opportunity to make lots of money. Republicans simply value the dignity of work (which is also a very Catholic principle). Republicans and other conservatives value hard work so much, that most of them are not willing to accept handouts themselves. I know many poor conservatives who refused to accept welfare, food stamps, etc. They would rather work a 3rd job than accept handouts. We just have a different point of view.

God bless.

 

[ChristMyLife]

OK – which bullet points on your list are OFFICIALLY SUPPORTED by the Democratic Party?
*infanticide (abortion is a form of infanticide)
*euthanasia (can be a form of fratricide, patricide, and/or matricide)
*sin of the Sodomites

Now, which positions are supported by the Republican Party? NONE.

I think it’s clear that you view the Democratic Party as totally evil and nothing good, and the Republican party as good with a few small warts that need to be worked on.

Therefore, IMO, your own bias and political leaning is skewing your judgment.

I view both parties as having both good and evil qualities, and members of both parties being both good and evil people.

I think neither party is perfectly evil nor perfectly good, and I can understand why someone would suppoet one party over the other, whichever party they may support.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

Please point to one Catholic who is pro birth but doesn’t care after the child is born.

I call a red herring. The point was health care, and I don’t see where the GOP has made any strides.
If you do, please advise.

The GOP has not made any strides because now they can’t agree.

You have to remember, today’s GOP is made up of two major groups: conservatives and libertarians. Conservatives don’t want anyone to lose health care and are not going to want to sign off on anything that turns out to be non-Christian. But Libertarians have no problem letting the system crash.

It’s like Trump has said multiple times. The GOP could have done NOTHING with Obamacare and waited for it to self implode. But then, millions of people who are on it would have been screwed. Or the GOP could work on replacing it.

But the problem is that the libertarians and stanch anti-federalists want to simply get rid of it, and gamble with current Obamacare customers (aka - simply rip the band-aid off). While the Religious Rite wants to make sure that no one loses their coverage in the process.

 

[DENNYINMI]

Republicans want everyone to have the opportunity to make lots of money.

just wow. I’m at a loss for words with some of the hook, line and sinker rhetoric here but the post requires at least 10 characters…lol

 

[KMC]

Not where Trump is concerned.

Since you want to go there: What specifically has Trump done while in office that outweighs the support Obama has for abortion, planned parenthood, embryonic stem cell research.

If you want to talk about “satanically influenced”, then tell me how supporting the slicing, dicing, chemical burning of unborn babies is not satanically influenced?