It is stuff like this that's forcing me move to traditional Catholicism

[alwayslooking]

My parish priest is out of town for a few weeks. During this time there is no daily Mass. This is no problem because in my town of 45,000 there are 8 parishes, a national shrine, and a monastery.

I went to a different parish for daily Mass. Upon arrival I discovered that they were just having a communion service that day. I thought “no problem”. Two women led the service. One read all of the readings, the response, and the Gospel of the day. Up until this point I had no problem.

The second woman then led a communion service. She did not consecrate the Eucharist, but she read the following parts from the missal: The Preparation of the Bread & Wine, The Invitation to Prayer, The Prayer Over the Gifts, The Introductory Dialogue, The Sanctus, and the Reception Before Communion.

When she said “The Lord be with you” everyone responded “and also with you” I just started praying for forgiveness. We are not responding to the individual, only a priest has the spirit.

The worst offence was when she raised the host, and then practiced self-communion saying “May the body of Christ bring me to everlasting life” According to the Norms for the Distribution and Reception of the Holy Communion only a priest can practice self-communion.

After the service I asked another member of the congregation how often they have a communion service instead of Mass; he said three times a week. This means that these abuses have occurred hundreds of times over the years. I find it hard to believe that nobody has alerted our conservative bishop.

Okay, I’m done venting now.

This is why I’m moving closer to joining a parish run by the Institute of Christ the King.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

My parish priest is out of town for a few weeks. During this time there is no daily Mass. This is no problem because in my town of 45,000 there are 8 parishes, a national shrine, and a monastery.

I went to a different parish for daily Mass. Upon arrival I discovered that they were just having a communion service that day. I thought “no problem”. Two women led the service. One read all of the readings, the response, and the Gospel of the day. Up until this point I had no problem.

The second woman then led a communion service. She did not consecrate the Eucharist, but she read the following parts from the missal: The Preparation of the Bread & Wine, The Invitation to Prayer, The Prayer Over the Gifts, The Introductory Dialogue, The Sanctus, and the Reception Before Communion.

When she said “The Lord be with you” everyone responded “and also with you” I just started praying for forgiveness. We are not responding to the individual, only a priest has the spirit.

The worst offence was when she raised the host, and then practiced self-communion saying “May the body of Christ bring me to everlasting life” According to the Norms for the Distribution and Reception of the Holy Communion only a priest can practice self-communion.

After the service I asked another member of the congregation how often they have a communion service instead of Mass; he said three times a week. This means that these abuses have occurred hundreds of times over the years. I find it hard to believe that nobody has alerted our conservative bishop.

Okay, I’m done venting now.

This is why I’m moving closer to joining a parish run by the Institute of Christ the King.

Hopefully you’ll do the right thing and report the abuse yourself?

 

[alwayslooking]

Hopefully you’ll do the right thing and report the abuse yourself?

Already ahead of you.

 

[TimothyH]

When she said “The Lord be with you” everyone responded “and also with you” I just started praying for forgiveness. We are not responding to the individual, only a priest has the spirit.

Deacons as well. Just a point of interest.

-Tim

 

[bethanysamuel]

That is insane. You’re doing the right thing reporting it.

 

[jbelokur]

If I had a parish run by the Institute of Christ the King I would be attending there in stead. And this is coming from a guy who has an awesome priest who says the NO as reverently and as faithfully as I have ever seen. There is no room for this nonsense in the TLM, it can’t happen.

 

[TrueLight]

Well first, I don’t think anything should **force **you to start attending a traditional mass.

Do you like the EF?

I’m sure there must be a reverent OF somewhere.

 

[jbelokur]

Do you like the EF?

I’m not dogging you, but it is phrases like these that remind me of the protestant denomination I grew up in and served as pastor. We had on Sunday an 8am “Liturgical service”, a 9:30am “Contemporary Service” and an 11am “Traditional Service”. Whatever suits your fancy that’s the one your chose. This is not the worship of All-might God I see in the Old Testament, and it is not the worship of this same God that I see in the historic Catholic Church. Worship is not about our preferences it is about God, and our shaping our consciousness and preferences to His will.

jb

 

[TrueLight]

I’m not dogging you, but it is phrases like these that remind me of the protestant denomination I grew up in and served as pastor. We had on Sunday an 8am “Liturgical service”, a 9:30am “Contemporary Service” and an 11am “Traditional Service”. Whatever suits your fancy that’s the one your chose. This is not the worship of All-might God I see in the Old Testament, and it is not the worship of this same God that I see in the historic Catholic Church. Worship is not about our preferences it is about God, and our shaping our consciousness and preferences to His will.

jb

You’re right. You’re not dogging me.

Since there are two forms that the the Pope tells us are both valid, one can like, or at least prefer, one over the other.

 

[TheExorcist]

If I had a parish run by the Institute of Christ the King I would be attending there in stead. And this is coming from a guy who has an awesome priest who says the NO as reverently and as faithfully as I have ever seen. There is no room for this nonsense in the TLM, it can’t happen.

Or even an FSSP parish? We have one right by us and its great.

 

[jbelokur]

Or even an FSSP parish? We have one right by us and its great.

I’m a big fan of FSSP as well. Great priests, and awesome witnesses.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

I’m not dogging you, but it is phrases like these that remind me of the protestant denomination I grew up in and served as pastor. We had on Sunday an 8am “Liturgical service”, a 9:30am “Contemporary Service” and an 11am “Traditional Service”. Whatever suits your fancy that’s the one your chose. This is not the worship of All-might God I see in the Old Testament, and it is not the worship of this same God that I see in the historic Catholic Church. Worship is not about our preferences it is about God, and our shaping our consciousness and preferences to His will.

jb

But when 2 things are both completely valid, we may choose between them. For a Mass, all other things being equal (completely orthodox, etc), which one a person prefers is as good a way to pick one to attend as any other reason. You’ve gotta decide somehow.

I’m sorry to hear about the abuses. I’ve never actually experienced such a thing, but I guess I’m young yet and perhaps just very lucky.

 

[TimothyH]

To me, a parish is more than the Mass. Mass is the most important part of the parish but the parish goes beyond just the Mass.

After our individual families, our parish is the context under which we are called to love one another. We should do business with our fellow parishoners wherever possible, make friends from our parish, and we should make an effort to know others in our parish so that we can pray for them when they have hard time and so they can pray for us. We should know others in our parish to the point where we are able to straighten each other out if needed - to walk up and say, “I love you too much to let you continue in sin. I want to see you in heaven. Please stop.” The parish is the primary unit of membership in Christ’s body - it is where the Body of Christ should touch our lives daily.

Yes, the parish must be united around the altar and around the Eucharist. Each parish is first and foremost a Eucharistic community and if they are not united around the Eucharist, they will be united around nothing and unable to love each other. But it saddens me that people are willing to abandon their parish - the parish God placed them in - at what seems like every tip of the hat. And I fail to see why one would throw their present parish in the garbage because of what they experienced as a guest at a completly different parish. I’m not saying that is what the OP is doing (although the screen name is suspicious ). For all I know he could have prayed and agonized about this for a long time. But everyone seems so restless… looking for an excuse to move here… and then looking for an excuse to move there… Flitting about like a bird from tree to tree.

How can anyone make friends whom they can genuinely love in a meaningful way if they move from parish to parish or go to a parish seven zip codes away from where they live, shop, play golf and four school districts away from where their kids go to school?

*Hey, can you give me a ride to the repair shop so that I can pick up my car? Ah… Uh… well… I live across town and come here for the Mass.

Hey, wanna come and hang out at my pool after Mass? No, we live on the other side of the city and my mom and dad come here because they they had issues with the Mass at our old Church.*

See what I mean? That’s why I love Cistercian Monks so much. They don’t vow poverty, chastity and obedience. They vow obedience, ongoing conversion and stablity. A 45 year old cistercian monk looked me in the eye, waved his hand as if to draw my attention to the church and cloister, and said, “This is where I will die.”

Forgive me my brother’s and sisters. Please forgive me. I am not saying this out of anger or as a lecture. It’s just that I spent 44 on my own, without a parish and now my best friends are Catholics from my town who I worship with and who’s kids play with my kids and I love them and pray for them and they pray for me. Perhapse I’m off base. I apologize if I am.

-Tim-

 

[TrueLight]

Forgive me my brother’s and sisters. Please forgive me. I am not saying this out of anger or as a lecture. It’s just that I spent 44 on my own, without a parish and now my best friends are Catholics from my town who I worship with and who’s kids play with my kids and I love them and pray for them and they pray for me. Perhapse I’m off base. I apologize if I am.

-Tim-

I don’t know. I don’t think it is as easy to do the neighborhood parish thing in some locations. Most of the parishes I have been to in the City are so-called commuter parishes.

Yet, it is possible to build friendships even at distant parishes. There is no EF in my neighborhood and that is the form of mass I am drawn to.

I just started attending a parish 2.5 hours away and a couple had me over for dinner then drove me to the train.

As a Protestant I still attended churches at least 1 hour away. And there was lots of community.

There aren’t any Catholic ghettos anymore, definitely not where I live.

 

[TimothyH]

I don’t know. I don’t think it is as easy to do the neighborhood parish thing in some locations. Most of the parishes I have been to in the City are so-called commuter parishes.

Yet, it is possible to build friendships even at distant parishes. There is no EF in my neighborhood and that is the form of mass I am drawn to.

I just started attending a parish 2.5 hours away and a couple had me over for dinner then drove me to the train.

As a Protestant I still attended churches at least 1 hour away. And there was lots of community.

There aren’t any Catholic ghettos anymore, definitely not where I live.

You know how out of the ordinary everything is in New York City, right? By that I don’t mean wrong, just completely different from the way things are in the most of the rest of the country.

May I assume that you are single without children? A single woman with no children who takes the Metro North from Penn Station to Stamford for Mass is not the same as a husband and wife with four kids in Catholic School in Marietta, Georgia, or Suffolk County for that matter.

“Do the neighborhood parish thing” makes it sound so trite. I’m glad you have the freedom to travel to the Mass you are drawn to. Really I am. But I see it here too. A family three blocks away from my house who used to sit in the pew right in front of me now drives right past the Church to get to another Parish further away and the only reason I got when I called to ask if they were OK because I hadn’t seen them in Church was that they like acoustic guitar and the priest in the other parish smiles when he hands out communion. I see the wife in the supermarked every few months and met the husband for the first in over a year. I’m thinking to myself like, “but didn’t you have friends at Church?”

-Tim-

 

[MTurner]

Something similar happened to me just last Thursday. Because of my work schedule, I wasn’t able to go to my church (FSSP) for Mass one morning and went to a noon Mass at a parish right down the street from my work. I had never been there. Right before Mass, a woman came in and announced that the priest had been unavoidably detained and he would not be coming. She then said there would be a Communion service instead. I stayed, more out of curiosity than anything. It was similar to what was described above with the readings and the Gospel and then the Communion rite of sorts, and, if I remember correctly, it was done just as was described previously. It was all done by 3 women. I was concerned/confused/didn’t really even know what to think. I was completely unsure if I should even receive the Eucharist. It was not the norm at this parish, luckily, but, at the same time, it was odd.

Thoughts on whether or not receiving would be appropriate?

I know It is the B, B, S & D of Christ, as It was taken out of the tabernacle, but the whole thing was so bizarre, I wasn’t sure what to do.

 

[At_Trent]

I’m not dogging you, but it is phrases like these that remind me of the protestant denomination I grew up in and served as pastor. We had on Sunday an 8am “Liturgical service”, a 9:30am “Contemporary Service” and an 11am “Traditional Service”. Whatever suits your fancy that’s the one your chose. This is not the worship of All-might God I see in the Old Testament, and it is not the worship of this same God that I see in the historic Catholic Church. Worship is not about our preferences it is about God, and our shaping our consciousness and preferences to His will.

jb

but if one form fills a spiritual hunger whereas another doesn’t, and one has a choice… the Church has given us that choice

 

[Zacdecat]

Golly!

Have never witnessed it and probably would not have stayed that long either. However, recently we had a little march for the protection of the unborn and met up at the end for a cuppa and a biscuit. I was surprised to hear one Catholic lady say how many memories Benediction brought back for her which had been offered at my church.

I attend a SPPX serviced chapel and the lady attends the ordinary Church in the area. I think personally, the real tragedy the modern church has is all the novelty…so that one parish maybe very conservative whilst the next one can be so …other…

 

[Cat]

I’ve never experience a Catholic Communion service other than on Good Friday, and those, at least the ones that I’ve attended, are always presided over by priests.

But I’ve heard about Communion services, which are done in parishes that don’t have a priest available to offer daily Mass.

My question is, are you SURE that the Communion service in the OP was abusive? Are you absolutely positive?

After all, this is a COMMUNION SERVICE done by laypeople, not a Mass done by a priest. There are different rubrics.

And Communion services ARE allowed in Catholic parishes when there is no priest to offer daily Mass.

I would like to see someone who is knowledgeable examine that description of a Communion service and break it down as to which parts are abusive and which aren’t,and I would like to see the source of the rubrics for a lay Communion service.

Please understand that I am NOT saying that the OP is definitely wrong about this. I honestly don’t know, but I would LIKE to know. We are fortunate in our diocese to have a surplus of priests, so I have never been part of a Communion service. But I’m sure others do have Communion services at their parishes, and I think it would be good to know what is liturgically-correct for a Catholic Communion service.

E.g., I believe that when there is no priest, it is permissible for a layperson to do the readings. Not sure about the Gospel. Since it isn’t a Mass, I don’t see a problem, since all of us (I’m a woman) read the Gospel both in private and in family and fellowship groups. I think the key is that “it is not a Mass, so the rubrics of the Mass are not applicable.”

But I don’t know for certain, and I would like to know.

Of course the lay person would not consecrate the bread and wine. In a Communion service, previously consecrated hosts are used. So I don’t see any abuse in that. It would have been an obvious abuse had the layperson tried to consecrate hosts.

I’m not sure about which readings are appropriate for a Communion service. I agree that what the OP quoted sounds strange. But it could well be that the lay woman honestly did not know what prayers are appropriate for a Communion service, and so she just prayed what she is familiar with. This could easily be corrected so that in the future, those who preside over the Communion service would read the correct prayers.

Keep in mind that if the parish has a priest on a limited basis, it could well be that catechesis at that parish is very limited, and it’s understandable that the laypeople are not up to snuff on how a Communion service should be done. I don’t know that, and I’m part of a very vibrant parish and diocese with excellent catechesis opportunities.

And I could easily be wrong about this, and perhaps it is permissible for a layperson (including a woman) to read these prayers during a Communion service. We need to know for CERTAIN before condemning it as abusive.

I’m hoping that someone has a link to the rubrics of a proper Catholic Communion service and can post them here.

The OP quotes from the Norms of Distribution and Reception of Holy Communion, which seems like a good source, but I don’t know if the portion he quoted has anything to do with a Communion Service. The rubrics are different for a Mass by a priest and a Communion service by a layperson.

My question is, in the absence of a priest (which is why Communion services are done in parishes), how is the layperson who is presiding supposed to receive Holy Communion if they don’t self-communicate? Is another layperson supposed to offer them Holy Communion? If this is the case, perhaps the woman didn’t realize this, and this could be easily corrected in the future.

I’m not sure if she offered the correct prayer to say, “May the Body of Christ bring me to everlasting life.” It’s certainly theologically correct, and I pray a variation of it when I pray the Anima Criste. But we would need to see the rubrics of a layperson Communion service before definitely saying that this is abusive.

Do you all see what I’m saying here? Before we leap, we should look. I am very interested in “looking” and I hope that someone knowledgeable will chime in to this thread and describe the proper way to do a Catholic Communion service. Thanks!

 

[Cat]

This is what I’ve found so far:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=121020

This is a thread from 2006, so perhaps it’s out of date. But it references a Source called Holy Communion and Worship of Eucharist Outside of Mass.

I looked up this text, and here is a link to a PDF of a Communion service order:

dioceseoflansing.org/worship/PTCommunionOutsideMass.pdf

I wish I had more time, but have to go to work. I’ll look back in on this thread later. Hope others can find more up-to-date sources. Thanks.