It is stuff like this that's forcing me move to traditional Catholicism

[InquisitorMax]

Communion Services are just the lastest in a line of iconoclastic practices in our Church. It’s just another thing to add to a list of things, that indivually, wouldn’t do much harm, but together? Oooh boy.

A contradiction is being perpetuated: that you can add more and more mundane elements to religious practices and removed sacred ones and still retain an aura of sanctity. When puzzled laity complain, the retort is: “It’s legal”. We can do it. So therefore it’s good.

That’s a non-sequitur.

In themselves, Communion Services offer greater leeway for invention in lay-led ‘services’; in practice, just like Protestants with their ‘Pastors’.

 

[TrueLight]

In themselves, Communion Services offer greater leeway for invention in lay-led ‘services’; in practice, just like Protestants with their ‘Pastors’.

You know, some pastors actually go to seminary an are “ordained”, whether those ordinations are considered valid or not. They are not all quacks.

I’m just sayin’.

A contradiction is being perpetuated: that you can add more and more mundane elements to religious practices and removed sacred ones and still retain an aura of sanctity.

I really agree with this.

And I’d love for someone to respond to my question about whether your average laity understands that he hosts are not consecrated by the presider of the communion service. That is important.

Otherwise, the line between the Priest and laity becomes really blurred.

 

[paperwight66]

I wonder if most of the laity at the communion services understand that the hosts have already been consecrated or if they think they are being consecrated by non-priests at the service?

I really do find it difficult to believe that anyone could be so misled, but if so, it is easily put right or guarded against for the future.

Just have an announcement on the bulletin if enough notice, as well as an announcement at the start of the Communion service, saying ‘If this service is new to you, you may not know that it is not a Mass, but a Communion Service authorised by the Bishop. We will be using Hosts previously consecrated by Fr…’ Or words to that effect.

Not a huge problem. Like most things, it boils down to communication and anticipating possible misunderstandings, however unlikely they may seem.

 

[TrueLight]

I really do find it difficult to believe that anyone could be so misled, but if so, it is easily put right or guarded against for the future.

Just have an announcement on the bulletin if enough notice, as well as an announcement at the start of the Communion service, saying ‘If this service is new to you, you may not know that it is not a Mass, but a Communion Service authorised by the Bishop. We will be using Hosts previously consecrated by Fr…’ Or words to that effect.

Not a huge problem. Like most things, it boils down to communication and anticipating possible misunderstandings, however unlikely they may seem.

Such an announcement would be awesome.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

And I’d love for someone to respond to my question about whether your average laity understands that he hosts are not consecrated by the presider of the communion service. That is important.

They would understand that, unless we are dealing with a catholic who never goes to church and has no clue about the faith.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Communion Services are just the lastest in a line of iconoclastic practices in our Church. It’s just another thing to add to a list of things, that indivually, wouldn’t do much harm, but together? Oooh boy.

A contradiction is being perpetuated: that you can add more and more mundane elements to religious practices and removed sacred ones and still retain an aura of sanctity. When puzzled laity complain, the retort is: “It’s legal”. We can do it. So therefore it’s good.

That’s a non-sequitur.

In themselves, Communion Services offer greater leeway for invention in lay-led ‘services’; in practice, just like Protestants with their ‘Pastors’.

OUCH!! :blackeye: I think you may be being a little harsh here.

I will be the first to agree that the Communion Services we are talking about can be mis-used and abused.
I, for one, dislike the practice of substituting them for Daily Mass, as happens very often in my diocese.
It is my understanding that the ritual was originally to be used only on Sundays,
where the spiritual benefit of the commmunity gathering is important, but there is no priest available to celebrate the Eucharist.
In some cases, I have heard people refer to Communion Services
as “Sister’s Mass” or “So & So- lay-person’s Mass” and it makes my skin crawl.
This is what needs to stop!

However, Communion Services, often times led by lay-people,
who dutifully follow the rubrics of the ritual, are the only connection to the Church community that many people who live in long-term care facilities have.
I work in one such facility and we have not had a priest who was able to say a Mass in over 8 months. Without these faithful volunteers, many people,
who in some cases helped to build our local churches & schools and were active parishoners until their health failed, would never receive the Eucharist.

I think we all need to be very careful in expressing our opinions here.
The Church has allowed for these types of services to happen.
Yes, sometimes people take their new-found “power” and let it go to their head, but I believe that this is rare.

I personally, will not attend a Communion Service in lieu of a Daily Mass.
I live in an area where I have a plethora of choices for both Daily & Sunday Mass.
I have talked with my pastor, and with priest friends who all agree that Commnion Services are often mis-used,
and in some cases, they are being done away with,
and replaced with Communal Morning Prayer when a priest is unavailable for Mass.
At least it’s a start.

But to do away with Communion Services all together, IMHO,
would be a terrible mistake.What we need to do is train people properly to to lead them,
and catechize the people in the pews.

Good catechisis- the answer to everything!!!

 

[InquisitorMax]

I will be the first to agree that the Communion Services we are talking about can be mis-used and abused.
I, for one, dislike the practice of substituting them for Daily Mass, as happens very often in my diocese.
It is my understanding that the ritual was originally to be used only on Sundays,
where the spiritual benefit of the commmunity gathering is important, but there is no priest available to celebrate the Eucharist.
In some cases, I have heard people refer to Communion Services
as “Sister’s Mass” or “So & So- lay-person’s Mass” and it makes my skin crawl.
This is what needs to stop!

And there you go. It’s already happening. You made a good point. Why have a daily Communion Service? Unless the participants think it’s an adequate substitute for Mass?

Daily communication used to be rare. Do people think it’s some kind of buffet, which you have to get, like medicine, or a compulsion?

You’re not obliged to receive every Sunday, either. You’re not supposed to receive unless you’re in a state of grace. It is one of the surprising number of things Jesus was hard about.

I think, I hope, we’re at the fag-end of this sort of degeneracy. Just a bit more scandal so the progressives are shamed to silence and the traditionalists can get on with restoring glory to our Sundays. Another three decades should do it.

 

[Thomas_Casey]

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. Everyone is allowed to agree and disagree. NO ONE is allowed to make contemptuous comments about Church law and practice or instigate disrespect and disregard for what Church allows or does not allow. You will be banned, no questions asked and no warning.

The purpose of this sight is to discuss Catholic Traditions in a manner that is edifying, enjoyable and correctly represents what the Church says.

One can disagree without being disagreeable.

Thank You

 

[RyanK]

My parish priest is out of town for a few weeks. During this time there is no daily Mass. This is no problem because in my town of 45,000 there are 8 parishes, a national shrine, and a monastery.

I went to a different parish for daily Mass. Upon arrival I discovered that they were just having a communion service that day. I thought “no problem”. Two women led the service. One read all of the readings, the response, and the Gospel of the day. Up until this point I had no problem.

The second woman then led a communion service. She did not consecrate the Eucharist, but she read the following parts from the missal: The Preparation of the Bread & Wine, The Invitation to Prayer, The Prayer Over the Gifts, The Introductory Dialogue, The Sanctus, and the Reception Before Communion.

When she said “The Lord be with you” everyone responded “and also with you” I just started praying for forgiveness. We are not responding to the individual, only a priest has the spirit.

The worst offence was when she raised the host, and then practiced self-communion saying “May the body of Christ bring me to everlasting life” According to the Norms for the Distribution and Reception of the Holy Communion only a priest can practice self-communion.

After the service I asked another member of the congregation how often they have a communion service instead of Mass; he said three times a week. This means that these abuses have occurred hundreds of times over the years. I find it hard to believe that nobody has alerted our conservative bishop.

Okay, I’m done venting now.

This is why I’m moving closer to joining a parish run by the Institute of Christ the King.

This same thing just happened to me! I had no idea which parts would be considered abuse or not and she did that and some other things I found to be questionable

 

[Cara_Serrano]

This same thing just happened to me! I had no idea which parts would be considered abuse or not and she did that and some other things I found to be questionable

I’ve been to a Mass like that, too! I was so busy noticing the abuses that I’m sure I didn’t get the full spiritual benefit from it, (assuming it actually was a valid Mass.) When I’m on the road (about half the time), it’s hard to avoid the occasional liturgical nightmare, but when I’m home I choose a parish where I don’t have to wonder about its validity. There is no Traditional Mass here, so I do travel a bit to find a reverent, if not Traditional Mass.

Some posters have stated that it’s harder to form parish friendships long distance, but for me, friendship is based on what we have in common, not how close we live to each other.

 

[alwayslooking]

I apologize. I didn’t want to start an argument. I was just stating what I saw something that I perceived as wrong. I was hoping for intelligent discussion.

Perhaps I was a little hostile toward the event. If I could change the title of the thread I would. Weather using the OF or EF Catholicism is beautiful, rich, \deep in scripture, and love for the Lord.

Why do people have to argue? Lets have intelligent discussion.

 

[Phemie]

I apologize. I didn’t want to start an argument. I was just stating what I saw something that I perceived as wrong. I was hoping for intelligent discussion.

Oh, dear, this wasn’t an argument, this was strongly held opinions.
No need to apologize.

Perhaps I was a little hostile toward the event. If I could change the title of the thread I would. Weather using the OF or EF Catholicism is beautiful, rich, \deep in scripture, and love for the Lord.

Why do people have to argue? Lets have intelligent discussion.

We try, but it doesn’t always happen. The one thing I’ve learned from these forums is to do a lot of homework before I complain of something as an abuse.

I don’t care for Celebrations of the Word with Communion myself, but we were without a priest for 3 weeks at the end of July/beginning of August and will be without a priest again for at least 2 weeks after our pastor leaves on the 22nd. That means that on the 28th I’ll be leading one of those liturgies myself as a service to my community.

And if there happens to be a death at that time? Another gal and I are trained to do all the funeral rites, if we have to. We’ve been lucky so far, when we had two deaths last summer while there was no priest, we provided the Prayers at the time of Death, the Prayers when gathering in the presence of the body, the Funeral Vigil and the Transfer of the Body to the Church. In one case we had a priest step off a plane and come directly to the church to celebrate a funeral Mass so that we didn’t have to do the Funeral Liturgy outside of Mass. He was back on the plane four hours later, heading back to his home parish. Too many of those moments and we exhaust our ‘pastoral care’ budget in a very short time.

 

[terrig]

And if there happens to be a death at that time? Another gal and I are trained to do all the funeral rites, if we have to. We’ve been lucky so far, when we had two deaths last summer while there was no priest, we provided the Prayers at the time of Death, the Prayers when gathering in the presence of the body, the Funeral Vigil and the Transfer of the Body to the Church. In one case we had a priest step off a plane and come directly to the church to celebrate a funeral Mass so that we didn’t have to do the Funeral Liturgy outside of Mass. He was back on the plane four hours later, heading back to his home parish. Too many of those moments and we exhaust our ‘pastoral care’ budget in a very short time.
End Quote:
I didn’t realize the Church allowed lay persons to do funerals. The funeral Mass is a very important thing - glad to hear some priests would take the time to fly to one. I am blessed to live in Central Texas where we have a lot of parishes close by. Our retired priests also step in to help with daily Masses. When our pastor went to India for 5 weeks, the retired priests helped. I will pray continue to pray for vocations especially for those parts of the country that really need them.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Well first, I don’t think anything should **force **you to start attending a traditional mass.

Do you like the EF?

I’m sure there must be a reverent OF somewhere.

I agree. We shouldn’t be forced into anything in the faith. If its forced, then it won’t last.

 

[paperwight66]

I’ve been to a Mass like that, too! I was so busy noticing the abuses that I’m sure I didn’t get the full spiritual benefit from it, (assuming it actually was a valid Mass.) .

If you are referring to the service attended by the OP, you do know it wasn’t a Mass? That’s the whole point of this discussion.

 

[CompSciGuy]

Nobody? Then how has Latin managed to remain the codified language of Christianity since the early centuries? In due time, Modern English as we know it is predicted to go the way of Old English and Middle English and Shakespeare. Into oblivion.

Dead in the sense that the vast majority of the world, let alone Christendom, does not speak or understand it. If you like going to mass in Latin then that’s fine but it’s not for everyone.

 

[Te_Deum]

I’ve been to a communion service led by a deacon before. To be honest it was basically the Ordinary Form without a consecration…

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

My parish priest is out of town for a few weeks. During this time there is no daily Mass. This is no problem because in my town of 45,000 there are 8 parishes, a national shrine, and a monastery.

I went to a different parish for daily Mass. Upon arrival I discovered that they were just having a communion service that day. I thought “no problem”. Two women led the service. One read all of the readings, the response, and the Gospel of the day. Up until this point I had no problem.

The second woman then led a communion service. She did not consecrate the Eucharist, but she read the following parts from the missal: The Preparation of the Bread & Wine, The Invitation to Prayer, The Prayer Over the Gifts, The Introductory Dialogue, The Sanctus, and the Reception Before Communion.

When she said “The Lord be with you” everyone responded “and also with you” I just started praying for forgiveness. We are not responding to the individual, only a priest has the spirit.

The worst offence was when she raised the host, and then practiced self-communion saying “May the body of Christ bring me to everlasting life” According to the Norms for the Distribution and Reception of the Holy Communion only a priest can practice self-communion.

After the service I asked another member of the congregation how often they have a communion service instead of Mass; he said three times a week. This means that these abuses have occurred hundreds of times over the years. I find it hard to believe that nobody has alerted our conservative bishop.

Okay, I’m done venting now.

This is why I’m moving closer to joining a parish run by the Institute of Christ the King.

Out of curiosity, which Monastery would this be? I’m looking into the Religious life and I’m always interested in looking at other communities.

 

[ProVobis]

Dead in the sense that the vast majority of the world

Is there a language which the vast MAJORITY of the world understands? Even English, which is spoken by fewer than 20% of the world (even if you include it as a second-language), varies from country to country, and is becoming more and more corrupt. Or maybe you’re thinking in java?