It is the Catholic Church that makes us Christians.....

[AmateurPianist]

I don’t know what you’re getting at. Truly I don’t. I’ve tried over and over again to explain the Church’s teaching on this. I’ve quoted 2 Vatican II documents that explain it. Others have quoted the Catechism. Do you need more Church documents? Is that it? Or could I somehow explain it any differently?

I’ve been about as clear as I possibly can be–to the point of being redundant, I must admit. I’ve reached the stage where I hardly see any point in just repeating it again. Nevertheless here it is:

Baptised Christians are spiritually united to the Church, but not full members of the Church.

What is it you want? What are you looking for? What is it you want to hear?

I simply cannot understand just “what” you are asking or saying in these posts.

I get the impression that something is troubling you. What is it? Believe me, I’m trying to be helpful here.

Good grief FrDavid96…I am not Catholic and understand what you are saying here (and doing a good job at it:thumbsup. I dunno what the problem is either.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I don’t know what you’re getting at. Truly I don’t. I’ve tried over and over again to explain the Church’s teaching on this. I’ve quoted 2 Vatican II documents that explain it. Others have quoted the Catechism. Do you need more Church documents? Is that it? Or could I somehow explain it any differently?

I’ve been about as clear as I possibly can be–to the point of being redundant, I must admit. I’ve reached the stage where I hardly see any point in just repeating it again. Nevertheless here it is:

Baptised Christians are spiritually united to the Church, but not full members of the Church.

What is it you want? What are you looking for? What is it you want to hear?

I simply cannot understand just “what” you are asking or saying in these posts.

I get the impression that something is troubling you. What is it? Believe me, I’m trying to be helpful here.

Sorry father. I was just questioning the other post for sayng those outside the CC was a part of the Church. I think I got the answer already. Thank you.

 

[FrDavid96]

Here’s a quote from Dominus Iesus, a Declaration from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. 6 August 2000. It was “ratified and confirmed” by Bl. John Paul II and signed by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

1. The Lord Jesus, the only Saviour, did not only establish a simple community of disciples, but constituted the Church as a salvific mystery: he himself is in the Church and the Church is in him. Therefore, the fullness of Christ’s salvific mystery belongs also to the Church, inseparably united to her Lord. Indeed, Jesus Christ continues his presence and his work of salvation in the Church and by means of the Church, which is his body. And thus, just as the head and members of a living body, though not identical, are inseparable, so too Christ and the Church can neither be confused nor separated, and constitute a single whole Christ. This same inseparability is also expressed in the New Testament by the analogy of the Church as the Bride of Christ.

Therefore, in connection with the unicity and universality of the salvific mediation of Jesus Christ, the unicity of the Church founded by him must be firmly believed as a truth of Catholic faith. Just as there is one Christ, so there exists a single body of Christ, a single Bride of Christ: a single Catholic and apostolic Church. Furthermore, the promises of the Lord that he would not abandon his Church and that he would guide her by his Spirit mean, according to Catholic faith, that the unicity and the unity of the Church, like everything that belongs to the Church’s integrity, will never be lacking.

The Catholic faithful are required to profess that there is an historical continuity rooted in the apostolic succession between the Church founded by Christ and the Catholic Church: 'This is the single Church of Christ… which our Saviour, after his resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care, commissioning him and the other Apostles to extend and rule her, erected for all ages as the pillar and mainstay of the truth. This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in [subsistit in] the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him. With the expression subsistit in, the Second Vatican Council sought to harmonize two doctrinal statements: on the one hand, that the Church of Christ, despite the divisions which exist among Christians, continues to exist fully only in the Catholic Church, and on the other hand, that outside of her structure, many elements can be found of sanctification and truth, that is, in those Churches and ecclesial communities which are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church. But with respect to these, it needs to be stated that they derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church.

1. Therefore, there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him. The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the Catholic Church, remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches. Therefore, the Church of Christ is present and operative also in these Churches, even though they lack full communion with the Catholic Church, since they do not accept the Catholic doctrine of the Primacy, which, according to the will of God, the Bishop of Rome objectively has and exercises over the entire Church.

On the other hand, the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery, are not Churches in the proper sense; however, those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church. Baptism in fact tends per se toward the full development of life in Christ, through the integral profession of faith, the Eucharist, and full communion in the Church.

For the sake of making the text easier on the eyes, I’ve removed the scripture notations and the footnotes. Of course, the underlining is my own.

I know this is “late in the game” but this is that elusive “quote from a single source” that I’ve been looking for from the very beginning here–the one that answers the OPs question. I regret it took me so long to find it.

 

[TrueLight]

Allow me a manner of speaking. Only those who behold the Beatific Vision are Christians in the absolute sense. And, only Mary beholds the Beatific Vision in the most intimate sense. We Christian in our affinity to Mary.

What?

That statement completely confuses me. Any references would help.

 

[Telstar]

Good grief FrDavid96…I am not Catholic and understand what you are saying here (and doing a good job at it:thumbsup. I dunno what the problem is either.

I’m just guessing that perhaps English is not their primary language and they’re having a problem understanding it in English? Several people have stated it as clearly as it can be said.

Even though non-Catholics are not members of the Catholic Church, they are still ***connected ***to the Body of Christ (the Church) as long as they have been Baptized in the name of the Trinity, and, ***if ***their church’s method of Baptism is considered to be valid by the Catholic Church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Here’s a quote from Dominus Iesus, a Declaration from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. 6 August 2000. It was “ratified and confirmed” by Bl. John Paul II and signed by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

1. The Lord Jesus, the only Saviour, did not only establish a simple community of disciples, but constituted the Church as a salvific mystery: he himself is in the Church and the Church is in him. Therefore, the fullness of Christ’s salvific mystery belongs also to the Church, inseparably united to her Lord. Indeed, Jesus Christ continues his presence and his work of salvation in the Church and by means of the Church, which is his body. And thus, just as the head and members of a living body, though not identical, are inseparable, so too Christ and the Church can neither be confused nor separated, and constitute a single whole Christ. This same inseparability is also expressed in the New Testament by the analogy of the Church as the Bride of Christ.

Therefore, in connection with the unicity and universality of the salvific mediation of Jesus Christ, the unicity of the Church founded by him must be firmly believed as a truth of Catholic faith. Just as there is one Christ, so there exists a single body of Christ, a single Bride of Christ: a single Catholic and apostolic Church. Furthermore, the promises of the Lord that he would not abandon his Church and that he would guide her by his Spirit mean, according to Catholic faith, that the unicity and the unity of the Church, like everything that belongs to the Church’s integrity, will never be lacking.

The Catholic faithful are required to profess that there is an historical continuity rooted in the apostolic succession between the Church founded by Christ and the Catholic Church: 'This is the single Church of Christ… which our Saviour, after his resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care, commissioning him and the other Apostles to extend and rule her, erected for all ages as the pillar and mainstay of the truth. This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in [subsistit in] the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him. With the expression subsistit in, the Second Vatican Council sought to harmonize two doctrinal statements: on the one hand, that the Church of Christ, despite the divisions which exist among Christians, continues to exist fully only in the Catholic Church, and on the other hand, that outside of her structure, many elements can be found of sanctification and truth, that is, in those Churches and ecclesial communities which are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church. But with respect to these, it needs to be stated that they derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church.

1. Therefore, there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him. The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the Catholic Church, remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches. Therefore, the Church of Christ is present and operative also in these Churches, even though they lack full communion with the Catholic Church, since they do not accept the Catholic doctrine of the Primacy, which, according to the will of God, the Bishop of Rome objectively has and exercises over the entire Church.

On the other hand, the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery, are not Churches in the proper sense; however, those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church. Baptism in fact tends per se toward the full development of life in Christ, through the integral profession of faith, the Eucharist, and full communion in the Church.

For the sake of making the text easier on the eyes, I’ve removed the scripture notations and the footnotes. Of course, the underlining is my own.

I know this is “late in the game” but this is that elusive “quote from a single source” that I’ve been looking for from the very beginning here–the one that answers the OPs question. I regret it took me so long to find it.

Thank you father, I do appreciate your effort and do understand what all this means. God bless always.