It is the Catholic Church that makes us Christians.....

[Rence]

It doesn’t have to be rude. When one believes that Christ was not divine, or that God is nothing more than an exalted human being, among other non-Christian beliefs, why in the world should they be called Christian? They simply aren’t. They have formed their own religion. The fact that they would like to ride on the coat tails of Christianity is really beside the point. They are what they are and it is not Christian. If your four year old claims to be an adult is it rude to explain to them why they are not, even if they throw a fit?

“Christians” are followers of Christ. If one identifies him/herself as a Christian, then he/she is a Christian, a follower of Christ. Denying it because it doens’t fit one’s criteria, is just that: it doesn’t fit that person’s criteria. But the Christian, is still a Christian, as he/she is a follower of Christ.

And no one is saying that all non-Catholics are not Christian. But there are some who wish to borrow the name who have nothing at all in commom with Christian beliefs. Calling one’s self something is not what makes one something. I can call myself President of the United States, but I would either be lying or completley delusional.

Here you speak of “in common with Christian beliefs”, but that’s from a Catholic perspective. Someone who follows Christ in accordance to their religion’s teaching is still a Christian. They just don’t have the same rules and requirements as the Church.

 

[Rence]

The Catholic Church is the only Church which Jesus founded and the fullness of the Truth lies within it. Scripture is clear that baptism is what makes one a Christian and not just personal testimony, faith alone, or belief. Even the demons believe that Jesus is the Son of God and not everyone who says, “Lord, Lord,” will be saved.

Did I deny any of the above? Nope, I didn’t.

 

[wisdomseeker]

“Christians” are followers of Christ. If one identifies him/herself as a Christian, then he/she is a Christian, a follower of Christ. Denying it because it doens’t fit one’s criteria, is just that: it doesn’t fit that person’s criteria. But the Christian, is still a Christian, as he/she is a follower of Christ.

Here you speak of “in common with Christian beliefs”, but that’s from a Catholic perspective. Someone who follows Christ in accordance to their religion’s teaching is still a Christian. They just don’t have the same rules and requirements as the Church.

Fr David is right, it is the CC that makes one Chrisitian. if anyone claims to be a Christian and it is outside the walls of the CC, it is because the CC brought them the knowledge about God.

 

[Cavaradossi]

Fr David is right, it is the CC that makes one Chrisitian. if anyone claims to be a Christian and it is outside the walls of the CC, it is because the CC brought them the knowledge about God.

I beg to differ. Christ brought us the knowledge of God through the Incarnation which was then transmitted to us through the work of the Apostles. I don’t think that the claim that the Roman Catholic Church brought the knowledge of God to the Orthodox is in any way believable.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I beg to differ. Christ brought us the knowledge of God through the Incarnation which was then transmitted to us through the work of the Apostles. I don’t think that the claim that the Roman Catholic Church brought the knowledge of God to the Orthodox is in any way believable.

Orthodox? was not the Church called Catholic Church from the beggining? where the name orthodox come from?

 

[Rence]

Orthodox? was not the Church called Catholic Church from the beggining? where the name orthodox come from?

The name is Orthodox Catholic Church, and which came first depends on which side of the fence you sit. The Orthodox Catholic Church believes it came first, and the Roman Catholic Church broke from it. The Roman Catholic Church believes it came first, and the Orthodox Catholic Church broke from it. They’re both Catholic, they both claim succession from Christ and the original Apostles. But the Orthodox Catholic Church, called “Orthodox” because it believes the changes the Catholic Church wanted were unorthodox, liberal and just plain old incorrect; and to distinguish itself from the Roman Catholic Church, which they believe took a turn from the Truth.

 

[Rence]

I beg to differ. Christ brought us the knowledge of God through the Incarnation which was then transmitted to us through the work of the Apostles. I don’t think that the claim that the Roman Catholic Church brought the knowledge of God to the Orthodox is in any way believable.

I’m sure the Lutherans, the Baptists, Church of Christ, Mormons, Quakers, etc., don’t believe that the Roman Catholic Church brought knowledge of God to them either. If you ask them, they’ll point to their own denomination…just like Cathlolics point to the Catholic Church. It’s just hard for some people to understand another’s point of view, when the only point of view they will acknowledge is their own. Obviously, by looking at the followers of Christ in the world around us, one can see that the Catholic Church isn’t the only way leading to Christ. In the distant past, that claim was correct because there was only the Catholic Church. But it’s not the same today, obviously, given all the non-Catholic Christian denominations that lead people to Christ.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I’m sure the Lutherans, the Baptists, Church of Christ, Mormons, Quakers, etc., don’t believe that the Roman Catholic Church brought knowledge of God to them either. If you ask them, they’ll point to their own denomination…just like Cathlolics point to the Catholic Church. It’s just hard for some people to understand another’s point of view, when the only point of view they will acknowledge is their own. Obviously, by looking at the followers of Christ in the world around us, one can see that the Catholic Church isn’t the only way leading to Christ. In the distant past, that claim was correct because there was only the Catholic Church. But it’s not the same today, obviously, given all the non-Catholic Christian denominations that lead people to Christ.

where did you get your information from? surely this is not the Teachings of the Church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

The name is Orthodox Catholic Church, and which came first depends on which side of the fence you sit. The Orthodox Catholic Church believes it came first, and the Roman Catholic Church broke from it. The Roman Catholic Church believes it came first, and the Orthodox Catholic Church broke from it. They’re both Catholic, they both claim succession from Christ and the original Apostles. But the Orthodox Catholic Church, called “Orthodox” because it believes the changes the Catholic Church wanted were unorthodox, liberal and just plain old incorrect; and to distinguish itself from the Roman Catholic Church, which they believe took a turn from the Truth.

there is no Roman Catholic Church. The Church is called Catholic Church.

And no, everyone who leaves the Catholic Church, chose for themselves a name. The CC remains the same. There is only one Catholic Church. The See is in rome.
You dont know what you are talking about. Please dont give wrong informatio to people.

 

[Rence]

where did you get your information from? surely this is not the Teachings of the Church.

Where did I get what information from?

 

[Rence]

there is no Roman Catholic Church. The Church is called Catholic Church.

And no, everyone who leaves the Catholic Church, chose for themselves a name. The CC remains the same. There is only one Catholic Church. The See is in rome.
You dont know what you are talking about. Please dont give wrong informatio to people.

Really? “There is no Roman Catholic Church”? Sorry, I disagree. Of course there is a Roman Catholic Church. And yes, the See is in Rome. And yeah, I know what I’m talking about. And I’m not giving “wrong” information to people.

 

[Psalm_51]

Fr David is right, it is the CC that makes one Chrisitian. if anyone claims to be a Christian and it is outside the walls of the CC, it is because the CC brought them the knowledge about God.

This is simply false. Many people who were brought up in a Protestant family learned what they were taught and were baptized in the name of the triune God. They know nothing about the Catholic Church in many cases and are taught in some cases that the CC is not even Christian. However, the CC recognizes as a Christian anyone from another faith tradition who was properly baptized.

As the Cathechism of the Catholic Church teaches:

*818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272 *

 

[BenMasada]

No, it is not the Catholic Church that makes of one a Christian, but the acknowledgement that Jesus was Christ. In fact, it doesn’t matter if one is a Catholic or of any other branch of Christianity. If he or she believes that Jesus was Christ, behold, a Christian!

 

[Publisher]

What brings you to a Catholic forum where you know you have many disagreements about your faith?

To learn more of your faith traditions and beliefs to better understand Catholicism…I’m not sure I have many disagreements with my faith…but I know Catholics do.

 

[Discipulo]

It’s not our place to deny someone’s identification as a Christian. The Catholic Church claims that one is Catholic by virtue of the Baptismal Seal made in the Trinity. We can claim that one is not Catholic, as evidenced by lack of required Baptism in the Trinity. However, we cannot claim that they don’t believe in Christ, if in fact, they do. If they say they are Christian, it’s not our place to say that they are not. It simply means they are not Catholic.

This is borderline indifferentism, we accept most protestant denominations as valid Christians because they have valid Baptisms and a correct view of the Trinity. The Church does not accept Mormon baptisms because although they use the same Trinitarian formula they have a polytheistic view of God. Jehova’s Witnesses actually tell us Jesus Christ is not Divine, therefore they are not Christian and they will not object to that.

 

[wisdomseeker]

This is simply false. Many people who were brought up in a Protestant family learned what they were taught and were baptized in the name of the triune God. They know nothing about the Catholic Church in many cases and are taught in some cases that the CC is not even Christian. However, the CC recognizes as a Christian anyone from another faith tradition who was properly baptized.

As the Cathechism of the Catholic Church teaches:

*818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272 *

You do not realize what you just posted? do you not see what it is written?

 

[FrDavid96]

This is simply false. Many people who were brought up in a Protestant family learned what they were taught and were baptized in the name of the triune God. They know nothing about the Catholic Church in many cases and are taught in some cases that the CC is not even Christian. However, the CC recognizes as a Christian anyone from another faith tradition who was properly baptized.

As the Cathechism of the Catholic Church teaches:

*818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272 *

I see what you’re missing here.

You’re equating the idea of 1. having knowledge about, or some direct relationship with, the Church with the idea of 2. the faith coming through the Church spiritually speaking. In an ideal world, of course it would always work that way. In the reality of the fallen world that we live in, it doesn’t.

The entire Christian faith comes through the Church, which is the Body of Christ. We cannot separate Christ from the Body of Christ. All faith in Christ comes, in some way, from-and-through the Church. Even those who adamantly reject the Church, or those who have never had any knowledge of the Church are still Christians because of the Church. This isn’t just a matter of history–it’s not limited to (let’s say) the historical fact that the Bible itself is a product of the visible Catholic Church under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The history is part of it, but by no means all.

The important part here is that because the Church IS the Body of Christ, then every act of Christ is also an act of the Church–the two are inseparable.

If we say that “Christ inspires a non-Catholic person to pick up a Bible and read the gospels”, we can also say that “The Body of Christ spiritually inspires a non-Catholic person…” The Church is the Body of Christ, so the Church is still at work in that person, even if he vehemently rejects the visible Church. If Christ is there, then the Church, His Mystical Body, is likewise there.

 

[Rence]

This is borderline indifferentism, we accept most protestant denominations as valid Christians because they have valid Baptisms and a correct view of the Trinity. The Church does not accept Mormon baptisms because although they use the same Trinitarian formula they have a polytheistic view of God. Jehova’s Witnesses actually tell us Jesus Christ is not Divine, therefore they are not Christian and they will not object to that.

The definition of a Christian is a follower of Christ. Those who follow Christ are Christians. I completely understand that the Catholic Church has certain criteria. That doesn’t change the fact that people who don’t meet the Church’s criteria identify as Catholics. The OP did not as about a Church teaching. The OP asked if it is the Catholic Church that makes us Christians. It is not, as evidenced by the Christians who are not Catholic. It’s not indifferentism, It is what it is.

 

[FrDavid96]

The definition of a Christian is a follower of Christ. Those who follow Christ are Christians. I completely understand that the Catholic Church has certain criteria. That doesn’t change the fact that people who don’t meet the Church’s criteria identify as Catholics. The OP did not as about a Church teaching. The OP asked if it is the Catholic Church that makes us Christians. It is not, as evidenced by the Christians who are not Catholic. It’s not indifferentism, It is what it is.

Would you agree that Christ is at-work in those people?

 

[Psalm_51]

I see what you’re missing here.

You’re equating the idea of 1. having knowledge about, or some direct relationship with, the Church with the idea of 2. the faith coming through the Church spiritually speaking. In an ideal world, of course it would always work that way. In the reality of the fallen world that we live in, it doesn’t.

The entire Christian faith comes through the Church, which is the Body of Christ. We cannot separate Christ from the Body of Christ. All faith in Christ comes, in some way, from-and-through the Church. Even those who adamantly reject the Church, or those who have never had any knowledge of the Church are still Christians because of the Church. This isn’t just a matter of history–it’s not limited to (let’s say) the historical fact that the Bible itself is a product of the visible Catholic Church under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The history is part of it, but by no means all.

The important part here is that because the Church IS the Body of Christ, then every act of Christ is also an act of the Church–the two are inseparable.

If we say that “Christ inspires a non-Catholic person to pick up a Bible and read the gospels”, we can also say that “The Body of Christ spiritually inspires a non-Catholic person…” The Church is the Body of Christ, so the Church is still at work in that person, even if he vehemently rejects the visible Church. If Christ is there, then the Church, His Mystical Body, is likewise there.

OK, so you are not saying then that someone must be a joined member of the Catholic Church (visible) to be saved, but that salvation comes through Christ and the Catholic Church (body of Christ) regardless of what church one belongs to, correct?

So there is no salvation outside the Church. I agree with that. So even someone who knows nothing about the Catholic Church (also the mystical body of Christ and a visible Church) but who responds in some way to God’s grace, can be saved, and that since all salvation comes only through Jesus Christ, it also comes through his body, the Church?

That makes sense. So while the Catholic Church considers someone who was brought up in an evangelical household and knows nothing about the Catholic Church (visible), but who was properly baptized in the name of the Triune God, a saved Christian, even though he/she knows nothing about the Catholic Church,(visible) their salvation which is recognized by the Catholic Church (visible) actually came about because of the Catholic Church (body of Christ), correct?

Is my understanding of your position correct?