It is the Catholic Church that makes us Christians.....

[wisdomseeker]

Very odd indeed.

 

[wisdomseeker]

The statement is fraught with problems that stem from intended meaning to understood meaning -

For instance, when you say, “Catholic Church”, are you referring to the “Ekklesia Universal” or to the visible “Church” headquartered in Rome?

To me and in it’s simplest form. It is Christ who makes Christians. Disciples are not known by their affiliation but by their Love (John 13:35).

The Catholic Church is an institution created by Christ, and built up by men under the constant guidance of the Holy Spirit for the training, teaching and guidance of the faithful. The Church visible, is an outward sign of God’s Love for us.

Peace
James

Where did you base your definition of the Church. Did you seek the history of the Church? and found out how our ancestrals defined the Holy Catholic Church? or is it your sole definition of the CC?

 

[Publisher]

this definition would make you an authority in defining the Church Jesus built. wouldnt it?

I don’t need to “define” His Church for anyone…I simply am a member of His Body…I just have faith in Him that through His Spirit I have been baptized into His Body…He has all authority in heaven and on earth…I have none…and I claim none…I trust in Him and Him alone. We are in Good Hands.

 

[Rence]

This contradicts Catholic Church teaching.

Baptism incorporates one into the Body of Christ. One does not become a Christian until one is baptized.

The original question did not ask what the Church’s teaching was. It simply asked if it was the Catholic Church that makes us Christians, simply and looking around, one can see (because it’s right there in one’s face) that there are many Christians who do not call themselves Catholic. Therefore, no, the Catholic Church is not what makes people Christians, because they can in fact be Baptist, Lutheran, Anglican, Church of Christ, Quaker, etc. These are all Christians, but are not Catholic.

 

[Rence]

The statement is fraught with problems that stem from intended meaning to understood meaning -

For instance, when you say, “Catholic Church”, are you referring to the “Ekklesia Universal” or to the visible “Church” headquartered in Rome?

To me and in it’s simplest form. ** It is Christ who makes Christians. Disciples are not known by their affiliation but by their Love (John 13:35).**

The Catholic Church is an institution created by Christ, and built up by men under the constant guidance of the Holy Spirit for the training, teaching and guidance of the faithful. The Church visible, is an outward sign of God’s Love for us.

Peace
James

James, I love your explanation

 

[Publisher]

The original question did not ask what the Church’s teaching was. It simply asked if it was the Catholic Church that makes us Christians, simply and looking around, one can see (because it’s right there in one’s face) that there are many Christians who do not call themselves Catholic. Therefore, no, the Catholic Church is not what makes people Christians, because they can in fact be Baptist, Lutheran, Anglican, Church of Christ, etc. These are all Christians, but are not Catholic.

 

[1ke]

The original question did not ask what the Church’s teaching was. It simply asked if it was the Catholic Church that makes us Christians, simply and looking around, one can see (because it’s right there in one’s face) that there are many Christians who do not call themselves Catholic. Therefore, no, the Catholic Church is not what makes people Christians, because they can in fact be Baptist, Lutheran, Anglican, Church of Christ, Quaker, etc. These are all Christians, but are not Catholic.

Baptism, not self identification, makes one Christian.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I don’t need to “define” His Church for anyone…I simply am a member of His Body…I just have faith in Him that through His Spirit I have been baptized into His Body…He has all authority in heaven and on earth…I have none…and I claim none…I trust in Him and Him alone. We are in Good Hands.

The modernist and relativist try to redefine the One Holy Church Catholic denying her existence. I will not stand by those who put themselves above Christ by redefining His Church.

Like the holy father said on youth day, “stay with the Catholic Church, do not try to find Christ on your own, you will ended up with a fake Christ.”

The Church is the same yesterday and today. Nothing has changed. the way the Saints talked about the CC remain to this day.

Jesus said that those who dont listen to the Church, it will be anathemized. who can say it different? no one. And for such to happen it must be only One Church. One found by Christ.

 

[Rence]

Baptism, not self identification, makes one Christian.

Just because you don’t consider a self-identified Christian as Christian, doesn’t make them not Christian. It means you don’t accept them as Christian. And that’s okay. Just don’t expect them to take you seriously.

 

[Rence]

The modernist and relativist try to redefine the One Holy Church Catholic denying her existence. I will not stand by those who put themselves above Christ by redefining His Church.

Like the holy father said on youth day, “stay with the Catholic Church, do not try to find Christ on your own, you will ended up with a fake Christ.”

The Church is the same yesterday and today. Nothing has changed. the way the Saints talked about the CC remain to this day.

Jesus said that those who dont listen to the Church, it will be anathemized. who can say it different? no one. And for such to happen it must be only One Church. One found by Christ.

I don’t see anyone trying to redefine the Church, or deny the Church’s existence. Christians are not always Catholic…and that has nothing to do with redefining the Church, or denying the Church’s existence.

 

[1ke]

Just because you don’t consider a self-identified Christian as Christian, doesn’t make them not Christian. It means you don’t accept them as Christian. And that’s okay. Just don’t expect them to take you seriously.

My opinion is of no import. church teaching is.

The Church teaches that it is through Baptism that we become Christian. Trinitarian baptism. The Church does not recognize the unbaptized as Christian [except in narrowly defined circumstances such as an explicit desire for baptism preempted by death] and does not recognize those who call themselves Christian but lack valid baptism such as Mormons, JWs, and Oneness Pentecostals.

I think it is unwise to propose things that contradict what the Church teaches, as Catholics we are to adhere to Church teaching.

 

[Rence]

My opinion is of no import. church teaching is.

The Church teaches that it is through Baptism that we become Christian. Trinitarian baptism. The Church does not recognize the unbaptized as Christian [except in narrowly defined circumstances such as an explicit desire for baptism preempted by death] and does not recognize those who call themselves Christian but lack valid baptism such as Mormons, JWs, and Oneness Pentecostals.

I think it is unwise to propose things that contradict what the Church teaches, as Catholics we are to adhere to Church teaching.

You are totally right about Church teaching…again, I’m not talking about Church teaching. I am speaking in general. Generally, people who identify as Christians are accepted as Christians. And it’s rude to deny that another person is not Christian, when they have identified themselves as Christians. In order to be Catholic, one has to be Baptised Catholic…there’s no denying that. But non-Catholic Christians are not claiming to be Catholic. They are identifying themselves as Christians…which they are. Again, those who claim that self-identified Christians are not Christians because they don’t meet certain criteria of someone outside themselves are not taken seriously — because non-Catholic Christians don’t care about the rules of a Church to which they don’t belong.

 

[JRKH]

Where did you base your definition of the Church. Did you seek the history of the Church? and found out how our ancestrals defined the Holy Catholic Church? or is it your sole definition of the CC?

I have not “defined” anything. I asked you to clarify what you are asking for in the context of the question.

As you can see from the variety of answers, the question as asked in the OP is open to certain interpretations.

The CCC has this to say:
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."
So - there are undoubtedly “Christians” out there who have never set foot inside of any Church in communion with Rome.
Now we all know that when we speak to our separated brethren we and they can have different understandings of the word “Catholic” or catholic.

Peace
James

 

[SteveVH]

Generally, people who identify as Christians are accepted as Christians. And it’s rude to deny that another person is not Christian, when they have identified themselves as Christians.

It doesn’t have to be rude. When one believes that Christ was not divine, or that God is nothing more than an exalted human being, among other non-Christian beliefs, why in the world should they be called Christian? They simply aren’t. They have formed their own religion. The fact that they would like to ride on the coat tails of Christianity is really beside the point. They are what they are and it is not Christian. If your four year old claims to be an adult is it rude to explain to them why they are not, even if they throw a fit?

In order to be Catholic, one has to be Baptised Catholic…there’s no denying that.

That’'s actually not true. The Catholic Church accepts all valid baptisms. We are not baptized into the name of the Catholic Church, but rather the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

But non-Catholic Christians are not claiming to be Catholic. They are identifying themselves as Christians…which they are. Again, those who claim that self-identified Christians are not Christians because they don’t meet certain criteria of someone outside themselves are not taken seriously — because non-Catholic Christians don’t care about the rules of a Church to which they don’t belong.

And no one is saying that all non-Catholics are not Christian. But there are some who wish to borrow the name who have nothing at all in commom with Christian beliefs. Calling one’s self something is not what makes one something. I can call myself President of the United States, but I would either be lying or completley delusional.

 

[1ke]

You are totally right about Church teaching…again, I’m not talking about Church teaching. I am speaking in general. Generally, people who identify as Christians are accepted as Christians. And it’s rude to deny that another person is not Christian, when they have identified themselves as Christians. In order to be Catholic, one has to be Baptised Catholic…there’s no denying that. But non-Catholic Christians are not claiming to be Catholic. They are identifying themselves as Christians…which they are. Again, those who claim that self-identified Christians are not Christians because they don’t meet certain criteria of someone outside themselves are not taken seriously — because non-Catholic Christians don’t care about the rules of a Church to which they don’t belong.

It’s not rude, it’s dishonest to do otherwise.

 

[Mark_B]

I am currently in RCIA, but have considered myself a Christian my entire life. I was raised in a Christian home, baptised under the trinitarian form of baptism, but through many years of study, I have come to the realization that the Catholic Church has the fullness of faith. Does this mean I was never a true Christian? NO! The Catholic Church, nor any church “makes” a person Christian. It is through the belief in Christ as our Savior and following His teachings that makes a person a Christian. However, I do believe that a person must believe in the Holy Trinity to be considered a Christian, otherwise, you are denying Jesus as God.

 

[hn160]

Baptism, not self identification, makes one Christian.

As long as it is done "In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Not as some liberal churches try to use other formulas.

 

[Publisher]

The modernist and relativist try to redefine the One Holy Church Catholic denying her existence. I will not stand by those who put themselves above Christ by redefining His Church.

Like the holy father said on youth day, “stay with the Catholic Church, do not try to find Christ on your own, you will ended up with a fake Christ.”

The Church is the same yesterday and today. Nothing has changed. the way the Saints talked about the CC remain to this day.

Jesus said that those who dont listen to the Church, it will be anathemized. who can say it different? no one. And for such to happen it must be only One Church. One found by Christ.

I don’t deny the existence of the Catholic church…there’s one on the corner not far from my house…I simply do not believe the claims it makes for itself nor do I accept the mythic history it paints of its establishment.

Jesus never spoke of the Catholic church nor did he found the Catholic church…you believe differently…that’s fine…I’m good with that.

Your beliefs frame God and the salvation story within a reference you can understand…it does not do so for me…it makes the whole “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself” meaningless to me…the simple understanding of the Society of Friends puts the story of salvation in a framework I can understand and accept…it provides a base for me to “work out my own salvation…”…something that the Catholic church does for you.

We both are in Good Hands…God will honor the faith put in Him of any who diligenly seek Him and try to understand the awesome story of grace found in Jesus of Nazareth…if I’m wrong…there is grace abounding and astounding mercy and love in Christ…“Lord…I believe…help my unbelief…”…yes…we are in Good Hands.

 

[jam070406]

I don’t deny the existence of the Catholic church…there’s one on the corner not far from my house…I simply do not believe the claims it makes for itself nor do I accept the mythic history it paints of its establishment.

Jesus never spoke of the Catholic church nor did he found the Catholic church…you believe differently…that’s fine…I’m good with that.

Your beliefs frame God and the salvation story within a reference you can understand…it does not do so for me…it makes the whole “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself” meaningless to me…the simple understanding of the Society of Friends puts the story of salvation in a framework I can understand and accept…it provides a base for me to “work out my own salvation…”…something that the Catholic church does for you.

We both are in Good Hands…God will honor the faith put in Him of any who diligenly seek Him and try to understand the awesome story of grace found in Jesus of Nazareth…if I’m wrong…there is grace abounding and astounding mercy and love in Christ…“Lord…I believe…help my unbelief…”…yes…we are in Good Hands.

What about the Catholic Church are you opposed to?

 

[jam070406]

I don’t deny the existence of the Catholic church…there’s one on the corner not far from my house…I simply do not believe the claims it makes for itself nor do I accept the mythic history it paints of its establishment.

Jesus never spoke of the Catholic church nor did he found the Catholic church…you believe differently…that’s fine…I’m good with that.

Your beliefs frame God and the salvation story within a reference you can understand…it does not do so for me…it makes the whole “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself” meaningless to me…the simple understanding of the Society of Friends puts the story of salvation in a framework I can understand and accept…it provides a base for me to “work out my own salvation…”…something that the Catholic church does for you.

We both are in Good Hands…God will honor the faith put in Him of any who diligenly seek Him and try to understand the awesome story of grace found in Jesus of Nazareth…if I’m wrong…there is grace abounding and astounding mercy and love in Christ…“Lord…I believe…help my unbelief…”…yes…we are in Good Hands.

What about the Catholic Church are you opposed to?