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Italy grapples with accusations of sex abuse by Catholic priests
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stbruno
Guest
Truly sad, more reasons to pray.
M
MercyMia
Guest
I read this yesterday. So sad. I am ashamed of the evil men that have acted like wolves among the sheep. Some of the abuse even took place in the confessional, such evil.
I hope the Saints in heaven are praying for us… we need it.
The gates of hell will NEVER prevail aginst the Church… but gosh, some days it feels like the flames get mighty close.
I hope the Saints in heaven are praying for us… we need it.
The gates of hell will NEVER prevail aginst the Church… but gosh, some days it feels like the flames get mighty close.
J
Javl
Guest
Yes, it’s very, very, sad. But all this still goes to prove that Satan is alive and well and still
doing his best to destroy the Church of Jesus. But, Jesus promised to be with the Church always and He and the Holy Spirit are protecting it. I believe Jesus. Deo gratia.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
doing his best to destroy the Church of Jesus. But, Jesus promised to be with the Church always and He and the Holy Spirit are protecting it. I believe Jesus. Deo gratia.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Everyone,
Get a copy of S. Catherine of Siena’s, “Dialogues”, scroll through it until you come to the book of ‘The Church’. Here she addresses the ecclesiastics and clergy, and her use of hyperbole exceeds that of Michael Savage’s.
Weren’t we, the laity, exhorted by her, and by others down through the ages to fast and pray for our priests? We have compromised our faith for the easy material life, and it is about to end pretty soon.
Get a copy of S. Catherine of Siena’s, “Dialogues”, scroll through it until you come to the book of ‘The Church’. Here she addresses the ecclesiastics and clergy, and her use of hyperbole exceeds that of Michael Savage’s.
Weren’t we, the laity, exhorted by her, and by others down through the ages to fast and pray for our priests? We have compromised our faith for the easy material life, and it is about to end pretty soon.
W
whatevergirl
Guest
*I appreciate you sharing this…I am going to seek out a copy of this.
This is a very sad article. We must pray and fast for our priests indeed. And our Pope takes these things very seriously, and I know he is adamantly working on making sure this never happens again. Prayers for all of the victims going up to heaven right now. *
D
Departed_Light
Guest
KathleenGee said in part:
Are you suggesting that because the Catholic faithful have not prayed and fasted enough for their clergy that this lack of spiritual discipline on their part is somehow responsible for some priests victimizing children? Am I reading you correctly here?
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eamonnroma
Guest
In Italy there is a basic lack of honesty and openness in general in all public institutions. This applies also to the Catholic Church. How far we can define Italy as being a Catholic country - I do not know. It is legally a secular state. While around 97% of Italians claim to be Catholic, it has a very low church attendance rate - the majority here use the Church for baptisms, weddings etc. I think the majority of Catholics here (and I am referring to those who are Catholics in name only) regard the Church with not a small amount of suspicion.
Sex abuse by priests - it is a terrible shame and a shocking reality. However I don’t think that sending more prayers to heaven (I also pray!) is the answer. Rather it is necessary to study the possible reasons for the high incidence of sexual abuse in our Church. It seems to me that other denominations suffer a lot less from this problem, and the only thing I can identify as being different in the Catholic Church is the celibate priesthood. Why not open the priesthood to good men in stable and loving marriages? This would certainly be a way to lower the sexual abuse in the Church - a married man is less likely to seek out the weak and the vunerable. The Church does not have a problem with married priests - in the Uniate Churches (which are Catholic) priests are able to marry, in the Roman Church there are many married priests who are converts from another denomination and were able to become priests in our Church.
I am not saying that this is the complete answer, but I think it would be a big step in the right direction.
Sex abuse by priests - it is a terrible shame and a shocking reality. However I don’t think that sending more prayers to heaven (I also pray!) is the answer. Rather it is necessary to study the possible reasons for the high incidence of sexual abuse in our Church. It seems to me that other denominations suffer a lot less from this problem, and the only thing I can identify as being different in the Catholic Church is the celibate priesthood. Why not open the priesthood to good men in stable and loving marriages? This would certainly be a way to lower the sexual abuse in the Church - a married man is less likely to seek out the weak and the vunerable. The Church does not have a problem with married priests - in the Uniate Churches (which are Catholic) priests are able to marry, in the Roman Church there are many married priests who are converts from another denomination and were able to become priests in our Church.
I am not saying that this is the complete answer, but I think it would be a big step in the right direction.
J
Javl
Guest
I agree with you up to a point. The scandal of sex abuse by priests occured mostly after
Vatican II. Before then, the cases were extremely rare ( and it wasn’t because of silence of the hierchy ). The basic reason, in my estimation, was the relaxation of requirements for the priesthood, because of the large number of priests who left the church ( laicization, etc. ). The relaxation would then, therefore, attract many more men. Also, if you notice,
these abusive priests are either pedophiles or homosexual, characteristics which were
a very strict “no-no” prior to Vatican II.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
M
MercyMia
Guest
Having priests marry would not lower the number of abuse cases. Look into the numbers…married men with children have the highest rate of offenses. In my own town, there have been numerous scandals of married male teachers with children abusing children and teens. In my husband’s family, there is a case of a protestant church elder molesting his own daughter. I will never make excuses for the monsters who called themselves priests and abused childre…NEVER…but I will say that celabacy did not cause any of them to abuse children - their own evil actions did.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Prayer and fasting is the greatest weapon against the devil.
If 97% of the Catholics in Italy go to church for baptism, marriage and their funerals, and nothing else, – well, you can assume they essentially don’t mkae time to pray and fast.
The exhortation to pray and fast came from Jesus Christ and His gospel.
When celibacy became mandate for the Latin rite, the Church was inculturated enough with grace for celibacy to be mandated.
(I worked with an Italian priest many years ago. This past year, after he retired back in Italy, he sent me a book on a monastary he renovated back home. He worked in the missions for 28 years inspite of war and hunger. He has so many friends, he has helped so many people. He lives a very deep and rich social life. I told him if he had married, he would not have been able to serve and help so many, many people, and his outreach touches on lives of many other nationalities as well. Viva Italy for bringing him into the world! He was made with a very strong desire to sacrifice marriage to be a priest and he personally told me this.)
Jesus also knew about those who never married, and the questions and mystery it implied. He said there are those who don’t marry because they were born that way—Think of people who claim that during their whole lives they have never been attracted to the opposite sex, so is this what He means?..or they were made that way by men…the eunuchs to protect the harems?..and then there were those who were made that way to serve the kingdom…
It is alleged that the apostles, who were married, assumed celibate lives later on. Jesus wanted those disciples who did not turn back to the plow…yes, Christ came to Peter’s household…healing, restoring to life…Peter’s wife was mentioned…but she was not with him when he was put into jail…Peter and the apostles and about 160 others at Pentecost had the flames of the Holy Spirit over them and they went out speaking foreign languages and the crowds understood them…read the Acts and the demands of living out the Gospel…very exciting times, but also very consuming times for the apostles and the early church…there were celibates early on,beginning with St. John the Evangelist.
Celibacy was possible in Christ’s time, and desired…Consider the virgins who refused to marry and were martyred in the first 300 years of Christianity…they wanted to give their lives wholly to Jesus…and they never met Him in person…but within…
Constantine made Christianity legal. And then families automatically baptized their infants into Christiatnity…cultural Christians without the deep conversion…probably priests becoming priests because it was all in the family to do so…not a truly committed vocation to faith. People were scandalized by married priests not even being faithful to their wedding vows, or those engaged in homosexual activity. They don’t want to financially support them, and we don’t want to do so for those who destroyed children’s lives today.
However, living chastely is also accomplished by homosexual priests. The priest chaplain from New York City who ministered to the firemen and died with them on September 11, 2001 was homosexual and chaste.
In the earliest liturgies of Christians, the Christians made oaths not to steal, lie or commit adultery…many of these people were married…In St. Theresa’s days, people frowned on people who had children out of wedlock, but they still cared for their children and loved them. I am sure there are stories out there of abandonment as well.
Back to the vocations director. Up to recent times, venerated and aged priests had charisms to discern if a candidate had a true vocation or not. In modern times, the bishops began to depend on professionals in disciplines of social sciences…such as being advised aberrant, pedophile priests could be cured. Not true. They should not have been ordained in the first place. My pastor is a clinical social worker, is very orthodox, and is the one in our archdiocese providing therapy and healing for abuse victims…there are many others who could never believe in God again after they were destroyed by sex abuse.
If 97% of the Catholics in Italy go to church for baptism, marriage and their funerals, and nothing else, – well, you can assume they essentially don’t mkae time to pray and fast.
The exhortation to pray and fast came from Jesus Christ and His gospel.
When celibacy became mandate for the Latin rite, the Church was inculturated enough with grace for celibacy to be mandated.
(I worked with an Italian priest many years ago. This past year, after he retired back in Italy, he sent me a book on a monastary he renovated back home. He worked in the missions for 28 years inspite of war and hunger. He has so many friends, he has helped so many people. He lives a very deep and rich social life. I told him if he had married, he would not have been able to serve and help so many, many people, and his outreach touches on lives of many other nationalities as well. Viva Italy for bringing him into the world! He was made with a very strong desire to sacrifice marriage to be a priest and he personally told me this.)
Jesus also knew about those who never married, and the questions and mystery it implied. He said there are those who don’t marry because they were born that way—Think of people who claim that during their whole lives they have never been attracted to the opposite sex, so is this what He means?..or they were made that way by men…the eunuchs to protect the harems?..and then there were those who were made that way to serve the kingdom…
It is alleged that the apostles, who were married, assumed celibate lives later on. Jesus wanted those disciples who did not turn back to the plow…yes, Christ came to Peter’s household…healing, restoring to life…Peter’s wife was mentioned…but she was not with him when he was put into jail…Peter and the apostles and about 160 others at Pentecost had the flames of the Holy Spirit over them and they went out speaking foreign languages and the crowds understood them…read the Acts and the demands of living out the Gospel…very exciting times, but also very consuming times for the apostles and the early church…there were celibates early on,beginning with St. John the Evangelist.
Celibacy was possible in Christ’s time, and desired…Consider the virgins who refused to marry and were martyred in the first 300 years of Christianity…they wanted to give their lives wholly to Jesus…and they never met Him in person…but within…
Constantine made Christianity legal. And then families automatically baptized their infants into Christiatnity…cultural Christians without the deep conversion…probably priests becoming priests because it was all in the family to do so…not a truly committed vocation to faith. People were scandalized by married priests not even being faithful to their wedding vows, or those engaged in homosexual activity. They don’t want to financially support them, and we don’t want to do so for those who destroyed children’s lives today.
However, living chastely is also accomplished by homosexual priests. The priest chaplain from New York City who ministered to the firemen and died with them on September 11, 2001 was homosexual and chaste.
In the earliest liturgies of Christians, the Christians made oaths not to steal, lie or commit adultery…many of these people were married…In St. Theresa’s days, people frowned on people who had children out of wedlock, but they still cared for their children and loved them. I am sure there are stories out there of abandonment as well.
Back to the vocations director. Up to recent times, venerated and aged priests had charisms to discern if a candidate had a true vocation or not. In modern times, the bishops began to depend on professionals in disciplines of social sciences…such as being advised aberrant, pedophile priests could be cured. Not true. They should not have been ordained in the first place. My pastor is a clinical social worker, is very orthodox, and is the one in our archdiocese providing therapy and healing for abuse victims…there are many others who could never believe in God again after they were destroyed by sex abuse.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Additional comment, it is finally coming out here in America the numbers abused by protestant ministers and some Jewish rabbis.
But the biggest sex abuse is happening in the secular public schools, 100 times greater than what has happened in the Catholic Church, but they aren’t getting much publicity.
USA Today in October of 2007 had a big write up of sex abuse in the public schools. They showed which states were the worst and showed graphs of the percentages…this is always overlooked by everybody who says terrible things implying the rest of the 97% of the priests are bad like the 3% of the ones who actually committed the crimes.
You tell the Catholic haters to read the article and they refuse.
But the biggest sex abuse is happening in the secular public schools, 100 times greater than what has happened in the Catholic Church, but they aren’t getting much publicity.
USA Today in October of 2007 had a big write up of sex abuse in the public schools. They showed which states were the worst and showed graphs of the percentages…this is always overlooked by everybody who says terrible things implying the rest of the 97% of the priests are bad like the 3% of the ones who actually committed the crimes.
You tell the Catholic haters to read the article and they refuse.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
I believe the laity indirectly had a missing hand…not using it for prayer…the rosary is also a fragile but powerful chain of prayer to break the chains of bondage of evil. We will never know until we are in the next life of how our prayers or lack of them could have helped a priest.
We have always been exhorted to pray for our priests. And to live a more penitential life.
People today are so afraid of what is coming to our country and the world economy.
Yet the world went on without our recent financial structure.
The other evening I went to a Franciscan retreat…and the final part was to exclaim, “I owe nothing!” I pray to the Sacred Heart of Jesus to truly become my abode in case I should ever loose my home.
We have always been exhorted to pray for our priests. And to live a more penitential life.
People today are so afraid of what is coming to our country and the world economy.
Yet the world went on without our recent financial structure.
The other evening I went to a Franciscan retreat…and the final part was to exclaim, “I owe nothing!” I pray to the Sacred Heart of Jesus to truly become my abode in case I should ever loose my home.
J
jongenaro
Guest
There’s a phrase that when the enemy wants the flock, who better than to strike the shepard. It’s an aweful thing. To think that these Priests work ‘in persona Christi’ during the mass and then do those terrible things to children is disgusting. However, I think that some of these cases may be false and done because people are looking for money or want some sort of revenge for maybe a priest that was mean to them when they were altar boys. There are tons of options but I do believe that there have been innocent priests that have been accused.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
There were 1,000 American priests falsely accused. I don’t know how many of the accusers were paid off.
J
Javl
Guest
I suggest that we count the number of lawyers involved, that may give us an answer…
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Yes, the lawyers…they have their impact on the health system as well…
A
adowcday
Guest
What was rare before Vatican II was the civil authority acting on complaints of abuse by Catholic clergy. There is nothing to suggest that Vatican II caused a surge in clergy sex abuse. Sexual scandal is a very old story, unfortunately.I agree with you up to a point. The scandal of sex abuse by priests occured mostly after
Vatican II. Before then, the cases were extremely rare ( and it wasn’t because of silence of the hierchy ). The basic reason, in my estimation, was the relaxation of requirements for the priesthood, because of the large number of priests who left the church ( laicization, etc. ). The relaxation would then, therefore, attract many more men. Also, if you notice,
these abusive priests are either pedophiles or homosexual, characteristics which were
a very strict “no-no” prior to Vatican II.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
If praying becomes, or is meant as, a substitute for change, then it definitely is not. “Business as usual” can’t be the answer.
A Church in a country where only 10% of the Pope’s own diocese goes to Mass is hardly healthy 
Maybe the bishop of Rome needs to fix his own diocese before lecturing the rest of the Church.
Agreed, about the value of sending the sacred cow of clerical continence to the abattoir - but I don’t think it is the only problem. ISTM that clericalism has a lot to answer for, & is responsible for the culture of manipulation of, and contempt of, the laity. I think “incontinent clerical continence” is a symptom of it. The Vatican may be too keen on the supposed “sign value” of clerical continence to let go of it, though 
The fact is, that it is often ignored, even by bishops - STM the continence of the laity, and of married clergy is a much better sign; if theology is the issue.- [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/church-in-talks-with-priests-mistresses-1282561.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/church-in-talks-with-priests-mistresses-1282561.html)
- [http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...n-pity-the-ordinary-catholic-man-1364481.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...n-pity-the-ordinary-catholic-man-1364481.html)
- [http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.co...lent-mistresses-find-voice-against.2394736.jp (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.co...lent-mistresses-find-voice-against.2394736.jp)
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