It's an awful reason for not getting engaged, but

[phil8888]

Hi Plinko. I notice on this messageboard, people are all too quick to dismiss your relationship as being worth scrapping. It seems some people think because you`ve been together for 7 years and are not married, automatically the best thing to do is to just break it off. Sorry to say this but the main point of view presented is normally doom and gloom.

If you tell them you are not 100% fully inline with every single Catholic teaching, well it’s probably just best if you ditch your relationship. And they also tell you whatever issue you’re having now, no matter how small, it will only be SO MUCH BIGGER when you get married.

Of course it’s easy for someone on the other end of a computer to just look at your situation and say “oh, you’ve been together 7 years, you need to move on.”, but 7 years is not something to sneeze at. you’ve grown together, loved each other, been through a lot. unlike what some people here seem to think, you can’t just throw that away nilly-willy.

I do not see pre-marriage and engagement to be totally and utterly distinct in every way from marriage. For example, if someone here said they have been together 5 years and engaged for 1, and they have an issue, it’s very common to see people say yeh just break it off, it’s not worth the trouble. but then obviously if someone was married, it would be the opposite. but I think pre-marriage has value as well. a 7 year marriage is totally undissolvable, so I don’t think it makes sense that a 7 year pre-marriage relationship is completely worth scrapping.

 

[cmscms]

Hi Plinko,

I mean this is a respectful tone and hope you take it in the spirit it is meant. If you do NOT believe in what the churche teaches (eg homosexuality is wrong) then why are you posting this on a Catholic website? If you want to leave the church, I am sure there are plenty of places to help you do that. But to come to a Catholic website ‘asking for help to go against the church’ seems like there is something subconscious bothering you.

It would appear to me that perhaps you do want to follow the church but just don’t know how. Growing up in a family of Catholics that always attend church in no way shape or form equates to being taugh properly about Jesus. The mere fact they would be upset about you NOT marrying in the church goes to show your family probably has not practiced forgiveness. Not to mention God gave you free will but your family doesn’t seem to do the same.

I think the best is for you to pray to Jesus to help clear up your confusion about the church

CM

 

[plinko]

Hi Plinko. I notice on this messageboard, people are all too quick to dismiss your relationship as being worth scrapping. It seems some people think because you`ve been together for 7 years and are not married, automatically the best thing to do is to just break it off. Sorry to say this but the main point of view presented is normally doom and gloom.

If you tell them you are not 100% fully inline with every single Catholic teaching, well it’s probably just best if you ditch your relationship. And they also tell you whatever issue you’re having now, no matter how small, it will only be SO MUCH BIGGER when you get married.

Of course it’s easy for someone on the other end of a computer to just look at your situation and say “oh, you’ve been together 7 years, you need to move on.”, but 7 years is not something to sneeze at. you’ve grown together, loved each other, been through a lot. unlike what some people here seem to think, you can’t just throw that away nilly-willy.

I do not see pre-marriage and engagement to be totally and utterly distinct in every way from marriage. For example, if someone here said they have been together 5 years and engaged for 1, and they have an issue, it’s very common to see people say yeh just break it off, it’s not worth the trouble. but then obviously if someone was married, it would be the opposite. but I think pre-marriage has value as well. a 7 year marriage is totally undissolvable, so I don’t think it makes sense that a 7 year pre-marriage relationship is completely worth scrapping.

Thank you for understanding. Not everyone has the means to get married in a more ‘traditional’ timeframe. I hope that people have gathered the information about my life experiences and can understand now why I have waited so long to breach this subject. If anyone knows this reference, we’re kind of like Cory and Topanga from Boy Meets World. They dated for 8 seasons and nobody questioned their relationship. It’s all a matter of circumstances.

So yeah, thanks for looking past a number. I appreciate it.

Hi Plinko,

I mean this is a respectful tone and hope you take it in the spirit it is meant. If you do NOT believe in what the churche teaches (eg homosexuality is wrong) then why are you posting this on a Catholic website? If you want to leave the church, I am sure there are plenty of places to help you do that. But to come to a Catholic website ‘asking for help to go against the church’ seems like there is something subconscious bothering you.

It would appear to me that perhaps you do want to follow the church but just don’t know how. Growing up in a family of Catholics that always attend church in no way shape or form equates to being taugh properly about Jesus. The mere fact they would be upset about you NOT marrying in the church goes to show your family probably has not practiced forgiveness. Not to mention God gave you free will but your family doesn’t seem to do the same.

I think the best is for you to pray to Jesus to help clear up your confusion about the church

CM

Thank you for your respectfulness and I see your point. The problem is that there are times where I feel like the church is home. I try to go to mass as much as I can and the thought of converting to another religion is unappealing to me. I just don’t see eye-to-eye on some matters of morality. According to conversations I’ve had on this website, this makes me a non-Catholic (which is why I changed my religion from ‘catholic’ to ‘trying to find my place’). When I feel Jesus reaching out to me, I feel solidified in my convictions. Maybe it’s just random serotonin release in my brain, but when I have that weird warm chill (paradoxical, I know) in Mass, I know Jesus is there comforting me, telling me that everything’s cool.

I don’t want to leave the Church, but I don’t want to begin a marriage based on lies. I don’t want my family to be disappointed. I just wanted to see if people had any insight before I begin to immerse myself in engagement discussions with my boyfriend. This forum, for me at least, is more than just ‘advice seeking’, it’s a way to bounce ideas off eachother, to think about things in new ways, to learn something new… That’s why I am here. I’m sorry if I’m not the intended audience for this forum, but I truly am trying to figure out my spiritual place and I’m glad this site exists for people like me, as well as devout believers.

steps off of soapbox now

 

[PatriceA]

I’m sorry, did you just compare your relationship to a made up relationship on a tv sitcom??

No matter how I say this, you’re probably going to take it hard, but you are not in a place yet to even be considering getting engaged if your prior posts are any indication. You have a lot of soul searching to do before you consider the next “logical” step. Instead of looking at how long you have dated, you should be looking at the quality of the relationship. If it was really the next logical step, it would be a no brainer, you would be doing all you could to make this work despite how hard you think its going to be to get married. You’d be walking through fire to make it happen.

 

[plinko]

I’m sorry, did you just compare your relationship to a made up relationship on a tv sitcom??

No matter how I say this, you’re probably going to take it hard, but you are not in a place yet to even be considering getting engaged if your prior posts are any indication. You have a lot of soul searching to do before you consider the next “logical” step. Instead of looking at how long you have dated, you should be looking at the quality of the relationship. If it was really the next logical step, it would be a no brainer, you would be doing all you could to make this work despite how hard you think its going to be to get married. You’d be walking through fire to make it happen.

I’m sorry, are you being mean to me because I tried to show that some relationships shouldn’t rush into marriage by using an example that people have heard of?

No matter how I say this, you’re probably going to take it hard, but I’m a lot more mature than you think. Everyone is so hung up on the word “logical”; let’s retract it and say that I never said it. How about this: I love him so much and he loves me back and every time I see him my heart melts. I want him in my life forever and watching my friends get married has made that feeling grow.

Marriage is not a “no brainer”; there are often adversities that prevent people from doing the things they are most passionate about. My adversity is my struggle with my beliefs and the church.

Please do not dismiss my life as trivial. I find your post extremely offensive.

 

[catharina]

I’m sorry, did you just compare your relationship to a made up relationship on a tv sitcom??

No matter how I say this, you’re probably going to take it hard, but you are not in a place yet to even be considering getting engaged if your prior posts are any indication. You have a lot of soul searching to do before you consider the next “logical” step. Instead of looking at how long you have dated, you should be looking at the quality of the relationship. If it was really the next logical step, it would be a no brainer, you would be doing all you could to make this work despite how hard you think its going to be to get married. You’d be walking through fire to make it happen.

Patrice, I’m going to agree with every word you’ve said -
even thought the OP finds it insulting and “extremely offensive.”

Those are the risks one takes when one comes to a forum and asks for advice.

The OP said this in her first post:

"I can’t get married in the church, and I can’t NOT get married in the church. So that’s why I’ve been stagnant in my relationship. What’s a girl to do?"

What’s a GIRL to do? Growing up would be a good start.
WOMEN marry. GIRLS date.

Weighing one’s faith and one’s family against a “boyfriend” and a desire to marry because many friends are getting married screams “IMMATURITY.” Sure, she “loves” him ‘so much’ but a real relationship based in a mature love and mature faith would NOT admit of feelings to ‘marry and join the crowd.’

 

[jmcrae]

I’m sorry, are you being mean to me because I tried to show that some relationships shouldn’t rush into marriage by using an example that people have heard of?

Television is not a reflection of real life - it’s meant for entertainment. I’ve never watched the show, but I can tell you, as someone who has been in the entertainment business, that the characters on TV are not supposed to be role models for people to follow.

They are devices for story-telling. If the couple was dating for eight seasons, it’s because the story that was being told required for them to be in a dating relationship for that long. Also who is this “nobody” who “didn’t say anything” - other characters on the TV show? They, too, are story-telling devices, and not meant to represent or be role models for how real people behave, or what real people should do, in various situations.

 

[plinko]

Ok, I’m going to just quit while I’m ahead. Things I learned on this thread:

1. My relationship is meaningless
2. Since I used the term ‘girl’ instead of ‘woman’, I am obviously juvenile
3. There is no justification for the length of time I have been in a relationship without getting married.
4. Most (but not all, thankfully) have judged me yet again in these forums.

It seems that people are trying to get a rise out of me and I find it bothersome. I feel like my issues are very deep and very real. I have a personal relationship with Jesus that is not totally in line with the Church’s, and yet I still feel compelled to stay Catholic. Therefore, it would be offensive to other catholics if I got married in the Church, but my family would be greatly saddened and upset if I didn’t. This is the heart of the matter, not semantics or the length of my relationship.

Look, I’ll spell it out here: I am almost 25. I started dating my boyfriend when I was 18. We were in college, and that wasn’t an appropriate time to get married for us. He’s a year older, so he graduated first and moved away for a job, thus beginning our long-distance relationship. I applied to grad schools in his area, but ultimately only got accepted to a school across the country, again, prolonging our distance. These are former reasons for not getting married, and should clear up why we’ve been together for 7 years. At the end of this year, he is dropping everything to move out to be with me, and so marriage has become a very real possibility.

I have a plight and thought there could be a discussion, a sort-of “what would you do?” type thing. I never said “tell me what to do” or “give me advice”, I said “what’s a girl [woman] to do?”, implying hypothetical put-yourself-in-someone-elses-shoes. I’m sorry that didn’t come across.

I thank everyone who has offered real insight instead of spinning everything I say or condemning my relationship.

 

[cmscms]

Thank you for your respectfulness and I see your point. The problem is that there are times where I feel like the church is home. I try to go to mass as much as I can and the thought of converting to another religion is unappealing to me. I just don’t see eye-to-eye on some matters of morality. According to conversations I’ve had on this website, this makes me a non-Catholic (which is why I changed my religion from ‘catholic’ to ‘trying to find my place’). When I feel Jesus reaching out to me, I feel solidified in my convictions. Maybe it’s just random serotonin release in my brain, but when I have that weird warm chill (paradoxical, I know) in Mass, I know Jesus is there comforting me, telling me that everything’s cool.

I don’t want to leave the Church, but I don’t want to begin a marriage based on lies. I don’t want my family to be disappointed. I just wanted to see if people had any insight before I begin to immerse myself in engagement discussions with my boyfriend. This forum, for me at least, is more than just ‘advice seeking’, it’s a way to bounce ideas off eachother, to think about things in new ways, to learn something new… That’s why I am here. I’m sorry if I’m not the intended audience for this forum, but I truly am trying to figure out my spiritual place and I’m glad this site exists for people like me, as well as devout believers.

steps off of soapbox now

Exactly, you feel at home in the Church and that is why I would like to encourage you to pray to God to see his ways. Whether or not you always see eye to eye can in some ways be irrelevant. You can choose to trust God and do his will when you don’t understnad

Whether you are or are not the inteneded audience for this forum is irrelevant as well. By posting here, I personally will take the liberty of encouraging you to come back.

CM

 

[phil8888]

Ok, I’m going to just quit while I’m ahead. Things I learned on this thread:

1. My relationship is meaningless
2. Since I used the term ‘girl’ instead of ‘woman’, I am obviously juvenile
3. There is no justification for the length of time I have been in a relationship without getting married.
4. Most (but not all, thankfully) have judged me yet again in these forums.

It seems that people are trying to get a rise out of me and I find it bothersome. I feel like my issues are very deep and very real. I have a personal relationship with Jesus that is not totally in line with the Church’s, and yet I still feel compelled to stay Catholic. Therefore, it would be offensive to other catholics if I got married in the Church, but my family would be greatly saddened and upset if I didn’t. This is the heart of the matter, not semantics or the length of my relationship.

Look, I’ll spell it out here: I am almost 25. I started dating my boyfriend when I was 18. We were in college, and that wasn’t an appropriate time to get married for us. He’s a year older, so he graduated first and moved away for a job, thus beginning our long-distance relationship. I applied to grad schools in his area, but ultimately only got accepted to a school across the country, again, prolonging our distance. These are former reasons for not getting married, and should clear up why we’ve been together for 7 years. At the end of this year, he is dropping everything to move out to be with me, and so marriage has become a very real possibility.

I have a plight and thought there could be a discussion, a sort-of “what would you do?” type thing. I never said “tell me what to do” or “give me advice”, I said “what’s a girl [woman] to do?”, implying hypothetical put-yourself-in-someone-elses-shoes. I’m sorry that didn’t come across.

I thank everyone who has offered real insight instead of spinning everything I say or condemning my relationship.

Plinko, I’m with you. I find these posters are building off each other. Many of them are simply insulting you but perhaps feeling better about it because they reassure themselves that it is tough love. Not likely. They will also reassure themselves that the truth hurts. and coincidentally they are always the purveyors of these “hard truths”. It’s easy to be on that side of the equation. It’s easy to sit there and judge someone and say they are a “girl” and not a “woman”, chastise her for comparing her relationship to a television show. people are missing the point here. she’s not saying she lives in a fantasy land, she’s simply giving people an example that they probably understand. her point is that being in a relationship a certain amount of time doesn’t AUTOMATICALLY mean people will marry right away. she sees her friends getting married and she’s stuck and wants to make a move. She is here asking for help, not to be condemned further. Give her a break and give her some help. That’s what she’s here for.

 

[catharina]

…I’m afraid of how my family will take it. Let me back up a little.

I love my boyfriend, and my boyfriend loves me. We’ve been dating for almost seven years, so marriage seems like the next logical step. **However, at the present time, my beliefs are not in line with the church’s and I worry that with the counseling beforehand, they will find out and refuse to marry us. ** My family, especially the older members, is devoutly Catholic in every aspect. I am often criticized for being “too liberal” and “holding the devil in my heart”. Therefore, if I don’t get married in the church, I would ostracize myself more from my family.

I can’t get married in the church, and I can’t NOT get married in the church. So that’s why I’ve been stagnant in my relationship. What’s a girl to do?

Here’s the dilemma - in the very first post.

This young woman seems to be willing to “fool” the Church prior to her “Church” wedding.
Does that sound mature, realistic or, in any way, reverent?
Does it sound as if this proposed marriage is headed for success?

 

[jmcrae]

Here’s the dilemma - in the very first post.

This young woman seems to be willing to “fool” the Church prior to her “Church” wedding.
Does that sound mature, realistic or, in any way, reverent?
Does it sound as if this proposed marriage is headed for success?

True. So many times we see the same scenario played out - Catholic-in-name-only young woman asks for advice on a Catholic Forum - advice isn’t what she was hoping for - she flounces off in a huff - six months later she’s back - divorced, and pregnant, and asking what she should put on her application for Declaration of Nullity, how to go to Confession, and how she will raise her child all by herself. Over, and over, and over, and over again.

So, yeah, it might sound like “tough love” but we’ve seen what happens in these situations. It’s not all roses and fairy tale endings. God does, in fact, know what He’s talking about, and it saves a whole lot of heartache in the end, just to listen to Him and do things His way, to begin with - yes, even if you “disagree” or “don’t get it.”

Not everyone should have to learn these things the hard way.

 

[plinko]

True. So many times we see the same scenario played out - Catholic-in-name-only young woman asks for advice on a Catholic Forum - advice isn’t what she was hoping for - she flounces off in a huff - six months later she’s back - divorced, and pregnant, and asking what she should put on her application for Declaration of Nullity, how to go to Confession, and how she will raise her child all by herself. Over, and over, and over, and over again.

So, yeah, it might sound like “tough love” but we’ve seen what happens in these situations. It’s not all roses and fairy tale endings. God does, in fact, know what He’s talking about, and it saves a whole lot of heartache in the end, just to listen to Him and do things His way, to begin with - yes, even if you “disagree” or “don’t get it.”

Not everyone should have to learn these things the hard way.

I’m not flouncing off in a huff; I just feel like you aren’t listening to my real situation. You see seven years and think I’m in a sham of a relationship.

I agree that my original post is worded very badly; it was not my intention to fool the church and I know my writing came off that way. I’m hoping my later posts will rectify that egregious breach of English syntax.

I do not take marriage lightly. Please don’t insult me by assuming I would jump into marriage like that. I have been through a lot, more than I could ever write here and I am convinced with all of my heart that I am meant to spend the rest of my life with my SO, whether we’re bound by a marriage certificate or not. I just have a bit of a hurdle, because I, unlike a lot of Catholic weddings, don’t want to lie and go through the motions of pre-marriage counseling when I’m not consistent with everything the church teaches. I also do not want to ostracize myself from my family.

BTW, I’ll never have to raise a child either with a spouse or on my own because I can’t have them. Thank you for being sensitive to that.

You say that I haven’t accepted your advice. The only advice I’ve received from you is to back out of the relationship. Can you see why, based on what you know about my relationship (pls read previous posts if you don’t know), I am VERY against doing so?

Let me rephrase my original question then, and let’s think hypothetically, for fun!

Many Catholic weddings are between people who don’t agree 100% with the Church’s teaching, yet I haven’t seen anybody blast their relationships the way mine has been. Why are theirs ok and what makes my reluctance bad? It seems to me that they are lying in the eyes of God whereas I am trying to reconcile this rift between morality teachings of the church with my own beliefs (however flawed they may or may not be). Is it ok to stand at a Catholic altar and still believe that rape-protection condoms are ok, that masturbation is alright, etc. etc.? If you say no, then what do you think about all the Catholic weddings involving people who do believe those things?

 

[jmcrae]

I’m not flouncing off in a huff; I just feel like you aren’t listening to my real situation. You see seven years and think I’m in a sham of a relationship.

I have never said that, and neither has anyone else. One person was surprised that the gentleman had hung on for so long - this was before we knew that you were only 24 years old.

I do not take marriage lightly. Please don’t insult me by assuming I would jump into marriage like that. I have been through a lot, more than I could ever write here and I am convinced with all of my heart that I am meant to spend the rest of my life with my SO, whether we’re bound by a marriage certificate or not. I just have a bit of a hurdle, because I, unlike a lot of Catholic weddings, don’t want to lie and go through the motions of pre-marriage counseling when I’m not consistent with everything the church teaches. I also do not want to ostracize myself from my family.

What do you expect to have to lie about, during the marriage counselling? Believe me, they are not going to ask you your opinion of homosexual marriage, or live-together relationships, other than to ensure that you yourself aren’t in either one of those.

You say that I haven’t accepted your advice. The only advice I’ve received from you is to back out of the relationship.

MY advice to you was to learn what the Church teaches, and come to understand why these teachings have stood the test of time, empire, and culture, in every nation of the world, these past 2000 years - rather than simply tossing it away on the basis that you happen to disagree with one or two things, at the moment.

 

[catharina]

Many Catholic weddings are between people who don’t agree 100% with the Church’s teaching, yet I haven’t seen anybody blast their relationships the way mine has been. Why are theirs ok and what makes my reluctance bad? It seems to me that they are lying in the eyes of God whereas I am trying to reconcile this rift between morality teachings of the church with my own beliefs (however flawed they may or may not be). Is it ok to stand at a Catholic altar and still believe that rape-protection condoms are ok, that masturbation is alright, etc. etc.? If you say no, then what do you think about all the Catholic weddings involving people who do believe those things?

To imagine that you could come on a Catholic site and solicit approval of a marriage that is out-of-bounds with the Church is to court lunacy. Your claim that “Many Catholic weddings are between people who don’t agree 100% with the Church’s teaching” is only that: a claim.

If you give a bit of time to STUDYING Catholic teaching, you might be happily surprised.

 

[GracedUpon]

Plinko, I, for one, am glad that you chose to come to this forum to seek advice and discussion regarding your faith-related questions. I have a few questions that may be helpful to develop a more fruitful discussion here, rather than the accusatory, insulting posts you have received from PPs.

What is your relationship with your BF like? Do you have any doubts as to whether you are called to spend your lives together? Have you discussed marriage together?

Is he Catholic or Christian? Is he anti-Catholic?

What is his relationship like with your family? Do they get along well?

Why do you say that you will not raise any children in the Catholic Church, since that is where you feel most at home, despite not following all the beliefs (if, by a miracle, you were to conceive)? Is that your decision or his? Would he be willing to do so if you wanted to?

Keep in mind that, even though you say you are infertile, you may one day end up with a miracle. I can think of at least 1 CAF member who (I believe) is currently prego after she was told by Drs that she couldn’t conceive anymore. Just some food for thought.

Prayers for you to discern and follow God’s will for your life!

 

[PatriceA]

Plinko, I’m with you. I find these posters are building off each other. Many of them are simply insulting you but perhaps feeling better about it because they reassure themselves that it is tough love. Not likely. They will also reassure themselves that the truth hurts. and coincidentally they are always the purveyors of these “hard truths”. It’s easy to be on that side of the equation. It’s easy to sit there and judge someone and say they are a “girl” and not a “woman”, chastise her for comparing her relationship to a television show. people are missing the point here. she’s not saying she lives in a fantasy land, she’s simply giving people an example that they probably understand. her point is that being in a relationship a certain amount of time doesn’t AUTOMATICALLY mean people will marry right away. she sees her friends getting married and she’s stuck and wants to make a move. She is here asking for help, not to be condemned further. Give her a break and give her some help. That’s what she’s here for.

OR, it could be many of us have been exactly where the OP is in a relationship and also thought it was a relationship worthy of marriage, only to realize years later it was not that healthy of a relationship and never would have lasted and wished someone had offered the advice many of us are giving the OP.

 

[Nec5]

Might I suggest a brutally honest and “ugly” powwow(meeting) with your maybe-fiance, family, and a priest? It is best to confront these things especially since their bothering/tormenting you.

Yes, it will be painful and scary, but would it be any worse than the day-to-day anxiety and fear you have now?

And the spelling of “powwow” just doesn’t look right for some reason.

 

[plinko]

To imagine that you could come on a Catholic site and solicit approval of a marriage that is out-of-bounds with the Church is to court lunacy. Your claim that “Many Catholic weddings are between people who don’t agree 100% with the Church’s teaching” is only that: a claim.

If you give a bit of time to STUDYING Catholic teaching, you might be happily surprised.

I wasn’t for a second trying to solicit approval. I’m sorry that I made an observation. No, my CLAIM isn’t backed by a methodical study, and so all I have to go on is anecdotes, but I know many a Catholic-married couple who use protection, many a Catholic-married couple who go to gay marriage rallies, many a Catholic-married couple who don’t go to church anymore… My point is, we all know the term “cafeteria Catholics”. Cafeteria Catholics get married in the church all the time. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying it happens. I don’t want to be one of those people. So I guess my question is answered. When I get married, it will have to be outside of the Church until I truly align my morality with Church doctrine.

Also, I am giving time to studying Catholic teaching. That doesn’t mean that I 100% agree with it. By your logic, if I fully studied Buddhism, I would emerge a devout Buddhist. Sometimes studying is merely that: studying. BUT, I am still open to the possibility that I will one day change my mind.

Plinko, I, for one, am glad that you chose to come to this forum to seek advice and discussion regarding your faith-related questions. I have a few questions that may be helpful to develop a more fruitful discussion here, rather than the accusatory, insulting posts you have received from PPs.

What is your relationship with your BF like? Do you have any doubts as to whether you are called to spend your lives together? Have you discussed marriage together?

Is he Catholic or Christian? Is he anti-Catholic?

What is his relationship like with your family? Do they get along well?

Why do you say that you will not raise any children in the Catholic Church, since that is where you feel most at home, despite not following all the beliefs (if, by a miracle, you were to conceive)? Is that your decision or his? Would he be willing to do so if you wanted to?

Keep in mind that, even though you say you are infertile, you may one day end up with a miracle. I can think of at least 1 CAF member who (I believe) is currently prego after she was told by Drs that she couldn’t conceive anymore. Just some food for thought.

Prayers for you to discern and follow God’s will for your life!

He is Catholic. We’re both trying to discover what religion means to us right now. On the subject of kids, I think after discussion, we could figure out together how we would want to raise them. I think a lot of my disjunction with the Church stems from 12 years in an elitist, snobby Catholic school (not saying all are this way, just the one I went to) and I wouldn’t want to force a religion and a way of thinking on my kid. I think Baptism would be in order and then free and open thought until they were old enough to make their own decisions. Of course, they would see me go to church every Sunday and could make the decision to join me or not. My bf and I have discussed the possibility of adoption in the future, so tiny tiny slim chance that one day I will be a mother, just not naturally.

Thank you for your kind writing and patience with me

OR, it could be many of us have been exactly where the OP is in a relationship and also thought it was a relationship worthy of marriage, only to realize years later it was not that healthy of a relationship and never would have lasted and wished someone had offered the advice many of us are giving the OP.

Oh yeah? You’ve been in a long-distance relationship for 4 years too?! We have much in common then!

What makes you think my relationship isn’t worthy of marriage? I’m not asking to be snide; I really am genuinely interested in why people don’t think I’m in a worthwhile relationship. I really think people misunderstand my situation. I’m not unsure about my boyfriend being “the one”, I’m unsure about the proper course of action to take once engagement happens.

Might I suggest a brutally honest and “ugly” powwow(meeting) with your maybe-fiance, family, and a priest? It is best to confront these things especially since their bothering/tormenting you.

Yes, it will be painful and scary, but would it be any worse than the day-to-day anxiety and fear you have now?

And the spelling of “powwow” just doesn’t look right for some reason.

Some great advice. I’m sure discussing things with a priest will clear things up. After all, he is the one with the ability to marry people. I will definitely be doing that once my boyfriend and I decide to make it official…

 

[catharina]

I wasn’t for a second trying to solicit approval. I’m sorry that I made an observation. No, my CLAIM isn’t backed by a methodical study, and so all I have to go on is anecdotes, but I know many a Catholic-married couple who use protection, many a Catholic-married couple who go to gay marriage rallies, many a Catholic-married couple who don’t go to church anymore… My point is, we all know the term “cafeteria Catholics”. Cafeteria Catholics get married in the church all the time. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying it happens. I don’t want to be one of those people. So I guess my question is answered. When I get married, it will have to be outside of the Church until I truly align my morality with Church doctrine.

If you recognize that your chosen morality is outside of Church teaching, that’s progress.
If you imagine that’s just fine because others are like that - that’s not progress.

Also, I am giving time to studying Catholic teaching. That doesn’t mean that I 100% agree with it. **The study of Catholicsm for a baptized Catholic begins with an act of faith. Faith is a gift from God. It must be nurtured or it can be lost. **

By your logic, if I fully studied Buddhism, I would emerge a devout Buddhist. Sometimes studying is merely that: studying. BUT, I am still open to the possibility that I will one day change my mind. Wrong. You were not raised as a Buddhist.

He is Catholic. We’re both trying to discover what religion means to us right now. On the subject of kids, I think after discussion, we could figure out together how we would want to raise them. I think a lot of my disjunction with the Church stems from 12 years in an elitist, snobby Catholic school (not saying all are this way, just the one I went to) and I wouldn’t want to force a religion and a way of thinking on my kid. If that happened to you, it’s a terrible shame. However our experinces in childhood must not dictate our adult lives. I think Baptism would be in order and then free and open thought until they were old enough to make their own decisions. Of course, they would see me go to church every Sunday and could make the decision to join me or not. My bf and I have discussed the possibility of adoption in the future, so tiny tiny slim chance that one day I will be a mother, just not naturally.

Thank you for your kind writing and patience with me

Oh yeah? You’ve been in a long-distance relationship for 4 years too?! We have much in common then!

Your sarcasm and condescension speak of your defensiveness and immaturity.

What makes you think my relationship isn’t worthy of marriage? I’m not asking to be snide; I really am genuinely interested in why people don’t think I’m in a worthwhile relationship. I really think people misunderstand my situation. I’m not unsure about my boyfriend being “the one”, I’m unsure about the proper course of action to take once engagement happens.

**I can only speak for myself; if you and your boyfriend have led each other AWAY from the Church, a Church and faith you own family treasues, then your relationship sounds very unhealthy - and un-holy. That you have given ALL of your young-adult years to him so far also suggests a lack of experience with dating and the morality involved with it. **

Some great advice. I’m sure discussing things with a priest will clear things up. After all, he is the one with the ability to marry people. I will definitely be doing that once my boyfriend and I decide to make it official…