It's for Mike Pence to Judge whether a Presidential Election Was Held at All

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Victoria33

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It’s for Mike Pence to Judge whether a Presidential Election Was Held at All​

By Ted Noel

On January 6, a joint session of Congress will open with Vice President Pence presiding as president of the Senate. His power will be plenary and unappealable. You heard that right. As president of the Senate, every objection comes directly to him, and he can rule any objection “out of order” or “denied.” His task will be to fulfill his oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and to ensure that the laws be faithfully executed. This is a high standard of performance, and V.P. Pence will have two choices. He can roll over on “certified” electors, or he can uphold the law.

Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution gives state legislatures “plenary authority” as enunciated in Bush v. Gore . This is key, since the counting of votes is discussed in Article II, the 12th Amendment, and 3 USC 15. To this we must add the history of counting and objections recounted by Alexander Macris (here and here). Put bluntly, it’s as clear as mud. Add to that the fact that the contested states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, New Mexico, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin have sent dueling slates of electors to D.C. This means that the V.P. has to decide how he will handle the situation when two sealed envelopes are handed to him from any of those states.

Macris points out that in 1800, even with constitutional deficiencies in Georgia , Thomas Jefferson blithely counted defective electoral votes from Georgia, effectively voting himself into the presidency. This demonstrates that the president of the Senate is the final authority on any motions or objections during the vote-counting. There is no appeal. That doesn’t mean there won’t be any outrage. Whatever Pence does, people will be angry. But what does the law demand?
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On January 20th, 2021, Joseph Biden will become the President of the United States. The only realistic obstacle to this would be if he were somehow to die before then. It’s time to drop the ridiculous conspiracy theories and come to grips with reality. Trump lost, Biden won. Life goes on.
 
This isn’t how it works.

The person on the ticket didn’t get to say, “we win!!”
 
puer.dei said:
This whole episode has been a depressing education on how many Americans have no clue about the Constitution.
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Sad, but true. At this point it’s a done deal. Unless someone actually burns the Constitution, there is no path forward for a Trump victory.
 
This all reminds me of a 4 year old who gets mad when someone doesn’t “let” them win and instead follows the rules of the game. The rules of the game say the electoral college determine the ruler. Not the winner of the popular vote. The rules of the game say that each state determines their own way for selecting their electoral college votes, not other states.
 
puer.dei said:
This whole episode has been a depressing education on how many Americans have no clue about the Constitution.
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Further, it’s frightening how many people don’t care what the Constitution says.

But, yes. This election has told us a lot about the American people.
 
Victoria33 said:
Add to that the fact that the contested states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, New Mexico, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin have sent dueling slates of electors to D.C. This means that the V.P. has to decide how he will handle the situation when two sealed envelopes are handed to him from any of those states.
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Two major problems here:
  1. The states have not sent two slates of electors. Electors have to be approved by the Governor or the state legislature. In these cases, the governors have approved a slate of electors and the legislatures have done nothing. The “Electors” for Trump have the legal equivalent of you sending in your votes.
  2. If there are two slates of electors sent (which there aren’t), CONGRESS has to vote on which to accept. If Congress can’t come to agreement, Pence is obligated to pick the ones that come from the governor.
For fun, you can see the official returns (as sent to the Archivist of the US) posted here - it shows that there have been no alternate electoral votes sent:

 
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RyanBlack said:
On January 20th, 2021, Joseph Biden will become the President of the United States. The only realistic obstacle to this would be if he were somehow to die before then. It’s time to drop the ridiculous conspiracy theories and come to grips with reality. Trump lost, Biden won. Life goes on.
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Don’t tell us after 3 years of the Democrats persecuting Trump for winning in 2016. Russia gate hoax per many. Saying they are conspiracy theories doesn’t do it either.

Lay out your evidence. Just because you say it doesn’t make it so.
 
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The evidence is the votes counted by the states, isn’t it? I haven’t seen anything to question those results, and neither have a slew of judges since the election.
 
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tomarin said:
The evidence is the votes counted by the states, isn’t it?
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Yup. And if that doesn’t do it for you, there is the obstinate fact that the overwhelming majority of Republican members of Congress (including the entire leadership) agree with the election of Mr. Biden.
 
Victoria33 said:
Add to that the fact that the contested states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, New Mexico, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin have sent dueling slates of electors to D.C. This means that the V.P. has to decide how he will handle the situation when two sealed envelopes are handed to him from any of those states.
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This is contradicted by Trump attorney Jenna Ellis, who says that the states with an “alternate slate” of GOP electors would need to have their state legislatures meet before Jan. 6 to decide to send the alternate slate instead.
 
Victoria33 said:
Lay out your evidence. Just because you say it doesn’t make it so.
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It’s time for your to follow your own advice. You really need to come to grips with the reality that Trump lost the election and Biden will become POTUS January 20.
 
I always thought the weirdest thing in politics was the ‘Rent’s Too Darned High’ guy in the NY mayoral plan race, but that’s a bit more local.
 
The VP has authority to choose the president unilaterally? The stories keep getting more extreme. I do not know if this is trolling, joking, or delusion.
 
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