It's no longer enough

[JimG]

“Which brings us to our present unpleasant realization that from a cultural perspective, the traditionalists and conservatives have been thoroughly beaten in the war for the culture. For the most part, we never even showed up.
We raised families, built farms and businesses, and attended church functions while secular revolutionaries took over the entertainment industry, the media, academia—and finally, the public education system that now dutifully serves as a conduit for secular “values.” Prayer is out, queer theory is in, and many a middle-aged conservative has found occasion recently to splutter his coffee and gape at his newspaper: “How did things change so fast?””

Sounds like the culture war is lost, and we never even showed up to fight.

lifesitenews.com/blogs/dear-christians-its-no-longer-enough-to-work-hard-raise-a-family-and-hope-t

 

[Anglewannabe]

Personally, I think a big issue is the fact that most people who actually attend church agree with the secular ideas.

 

[ThePCWife]

It was never enough in the first place. People did a lot more than that back in the day, and when they stopped, that was when the war was lost, so to speak. Throwing down their weapons is what happened.

 

[NeedImprovement]

Mention of the entertainment industry in the excerpt quoted by the OP , suggests our old nemesis of bread and circuses raises its head once again. "Bread and Circuses" was Roman satirist Juvenal’s reference to Rome in his day and of how the masses were controlled (bribed actually - by the government) by supplying them with bread and entertainment. People were lulled into a state - they were given the illusion that they were satisfied; by keeping their bellies full and keeping them entertained.

Sixty years ago, the late Ben Moreell (1892 – 1978 ; RIP) could see on the horizon, the approach of this mess we’re living in today. The article he wrote addressing this concern, is appropriately entitled Of Bread And Circuses

Would it be correct to say that most of us have been at least touched by one aspect or another of bread and circuses in our lives ? (I’m recalling here how many times when I was growing up our dear mother would tell us to “Turn off the idiot box and do your homework” , but instead, I neglected my homework so I wouldn’t miss my favorite TV shows.)

Yet as Mr. Moreell goes on to explain, these things in themselves weren’t necessarily bad. It is more the excesses and the “willingness" of the citizens "to sell their rights as free men” :

I do not imply that bread and circuses are evil things in themselves. Man needs material sustenance and he needs recreation. These needs are so basic that they come within the purview of every religion. In every religion there is a harvest festival of thanksgiving for good crops. And as for recreation, we need only recall that our word “holiday” was originally “holy day,” a day of religious observance. In fact, the circuses and games of old Rome were religious in origin.

The evil was not in bread and circuses, per se, but in the willingness of the people to sell their rights as free men for full bellies and the excitement of the games which would serve to distract them from the other human hungers which bread and circuses can never appease. The moral decay of the people was not caused by the doles and the games. These merely provided a measure of their degradation. Things that were originally good had become perverted and, as Shakespeare reminds us, “Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.”

Anglewannabe’s point is logical. Society has been hammering secular values into us for some time now. And children are being indoctrinated in school with these so-called “values” starting from a very tender age.

It truly is a culture "war." Prayer has always been an extremely effective weapon in this war , and as Catholics, if we don’t pray, we’re sunk : But then, when we’re being entertained, who has time for prayer ?

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I think until something horrible happens on a truly massive scale, most people are going to be content to watch the decline and mumble about it to themselves or sympathetic ears. The absolute illogical idiocy one needs to willingly surrender to in order to go along with the secular mainstream isn’t going to be overcome with simple arguments and discussions. A good example is the current uproar over the racism of the Oscars. If you listen to the people angry about it, they all blame those horrible, dirty, Christian fundamentalist, racist Republicans, the bane of all that’s good and holy in this world. They completely and willingly ignore the fact that Hollywood is a liberal, secular institution and continue to blindly support and vote for the candidates whose values align most closely with the Hollywood ruling class. I pointed this out to a few liberal friends and was called a racist and a homophobe.

I’ll admit that I typically no longer engage people on these issues unless it’s in person. Why? Because the dominance of the secular worldview is such that if I post anything on social media that can be construed by a secularist as hate speech, racism, sexism, etc. (in other words, if I disagree with them in any way, shape or form) that could be grounds for dismissal by my employer. It’s actually a bit frightening to think about, but one of the biggest goals of the First Amendment-loving liberals in the US is to utterly and completely stamp out actual free speech and dissension. And they’re succeeding.

 

[Bill_Martin]

There are tons of people who think like us; we’ve just let ourselves be bullied into silence, to the point where many are ashamed to be Christian in public.

To paraphrase Texas Ranger Bill McDonald, there’s no stopping a man who know’s he’s right and keeps a-comin’. The problem is, we’ve stopped a-comin’.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Looking at this from the other side is very different. From the perspective of someone who wanted desperately to see these changes, conservative activists definitely showed up, and they kept showing up, and, as evidenced by the Cruz campaign, they’re still fighting.

But it was a numbers game and you lost. Millennials are the largest generation in American history, and we grew up with access to the internet. More than schools, the entertainment industry, or any of the other favorite conservative scapegoats, I think the internet was the biggest factor. The rapid sharing of ideas and experiences from all across the country and world made a lot fewer things taboo. It exposed abuses of power, and humanized people who were caught in some of the consequences of the moral outrages and crusades. And it really, really blew the lid off the idea of a normal “ideal” that everyone was pretending to live. Conservative icons fell from grace just as quickly as the people they were railing against, and that accelerated the process.

 

[Della]

What I’ve found, BlueEyedLady is that the internet only made it possible for people to share their vast ignorance and for some to whine about their condition to the world to gain sympathy, while carefully hiding the steaminess of their deviant lifestyles. Hey, if we’re going to be straightforward and honest, let’s be completely so.

The media has made much of so-called abuses of certain groups, but if examined closely it’s all a charade meant to gain the public’s sympathies–a public eager to be told how bad we Americans are and how we need to do this or that to remedy it–which means we must go against every standard of ethics and truth in order to do so.

I’m afraid there was no great revolution of the people, but rather a very carefully planned exploitation of people’s desire to feel better about themselves without having to keep those pesky 10 Commandments–even though they are actually the rules of common behavior accepted by nearly every culture in the world.

I’m not an outraged conservative trying to put people back in their cages, I’m a Christian woman very much saddened by the state of our country and Western culture in which unwed motherhood is the norm, broken families are the norm, drug addition and crime are out of control, those who are sworn to protect us are vilified and murdered, while terrorist. are free to run rampant. All the while the government is bent on robbing us of our freedoms to dissent in order to run our lives as it pleases Sorry, I don’t see any great improvements but only giant steps backwards towards chaos and misery.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

What I’ve found, BlueEyedLady is that the internet only made it possible for people to share their vast ignorance and for some to whine about their condition to the world to gain sympathy, while carefully hiding the steaminess of their deviant lifestyles. Hey, if we’re going to be straightforward and honest, let’s be completely so.

The media has made much of so-called abuses of certain groups, but if examined closely it’s all a charade meant to gain the public’s sympathies–a public eager to be told how bad we Americans are and how we need to do this or that to remedy it–which means we must go against every standard of ethics and truth in order to do so.

I’m afraid there was no great revolution of the people, but rather a very carefully planned exploitation of people’s desire to feel better about themselves without having to keep those pesky 10 Commandments–even though they are actually the rules of common behavior accepted by nearly every culture in the world.

I’m not an outraged conservative trying to put people back in their cages, I’m a Christian woman very much saddened by the state of our country and Western culture in which unwed motherhood is the norm, broken families are the norm, drug addition and crime are out of control, those who are sworn to protect us are vilified and murdered, while terrorist. are free to run rampant. All the while the government is bent on robbing us of our freedoms to dissent in order to run our lives as it pleases Sorry, I don’t see any great improvements but only giant steps backwards towards chaos and misery.

Of course that’s how you and most others on that side see it. But you didn’t lose because you didn’t show up, or there wasn’t a fight. There was a fight, and it’s still going on. But the odds of winning it were against you from the start. Demographically, America is changing. It’s rapidly becoming younger, more ethnically and religiously diverse, and more educated. As those numbers tilt, it’s harder and harder for conservative policies to take hold.

 

[Della]

Of course that’s how you and most others on that side see it. But you didn’t lose because you didn’t show up, or there wasn’t a fight. There was a fight, and it’s still going on. But the odds of winning it were against you from the start. Demographically, America is changing. It’s rapidly becoming younger, more ethnically and religiously diverse, and more educated. As those numbers tilt, it’s harder and harder for conservative policies to take hold.

Sorry, but you are mistaken, my dear. What goes against basic human needs/freedoms/truth can triumph for a time, but in the end it is always defeated because humans instinctively know that there is more to life than pandering to their lowest desires. God always sends a revival after people weary of unbridled licentiousness, which doesn’t and can’t satisfy their deepest longings. God is the ruler of nations not us. He has the fate of humanity in his hands not us. We can cooperate with him or not, as we please, but in the end he always wins.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Sorry, but you are mistaken, my dear. What goes against basic human needs/freedoms/truth can triumph for a time, but in the end it is always defeated because humans instinctively know that there is more to life than pandering to their lowest desires. God always sends a revival after people weary of unbridled licentiousness, which doesn’t and can’t satisfy their deepest longings. God is the ruler of nations not us. He has the fate of humanity in his hands not us. We can cooperate with him or not, as we please, but in the end he always wins.

I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

 

[JimG]

Mention of the entertainment industry in the excerpt quoted by the OP , suggests our old nemesis of bread and circuses raises its head once again. "Bread and Circuses" was Roman satirist Juvenal’s reference to Rome in his day and of how the masses were controlled (bribed actually - by the government) by supplying them with bread and entertainment. People were lulled into a state - they were given the illusion that they were satisfied; by keeping their bellies full and keeping them entertained.

Sixty years ago, the late Ben Moreell (1892 – 1978 ; RIP) could see on the horizon, the approach of this mess we’re living in today. The article he wrote addressing this concern, is appropriately entitled Of Bread And Circuses

Would it be correct to say that most of us have been at least touched by one aspect or another of bread and circuses in our lives ? (I’m recalling here how many times when I was growing up our dear mother would tell us to “Turn off the idiot box and do your homework” , but instead, I neglected my homework so I wouldn’t miss my favorite TV shows.)

Yet as Mr. Moreell goes on to explain, these things in themselves weren’t necessarily bad. It is more the excesses and the “willingness" of the citizens "to sell their rights as free men” :

Anglewannabe’s point is logical. Society has been hammering secular values into us for some time now. And children are being indoctrinated in school with these so-called “values” starting from a very tender age.

It truly is a culture "war." Prayer has always been an extremely effective weapon in this war , and as Catholics, if we don’t pray, we’re sunk : But then, when we’re being entertained, who has time for prayer ?

That was an interesting article by Ben Moreell. The fact that none of his prescriptions are being followed seems to seal the deal. He quotes a former Harvard university president who said “no society is ever murdered—it commits suicide.” And it was physicist Leon Kraus who said that “Change is always one generation away, so if we can plant the seeds of doubt in our children, religion will go away in a generation, or at least largely go away. And that’s what I think we have an obligation to do.”

That does seem rather prophetic to me. Not that religion will disappear entirely in a generation or two, but it has certainly made great strides in that direction. However, following links to a few other articles, it seems that we might not after all in the future, be imprisoned for being Christian—at least not in the west—because in some places, Christianity is viewed as a treatable condition, requiring therapy rather than punishment. Still, it is the effects of the disappearance of Christianity, along with the breakdown of family, on the greater society as a whole, which remain to be seen. No one fights the culture war for his own survival, but rather for the survival of his civilization.

 

[Kay_Cee]

Has anybody here read Peter Kreeft’s How to Win the Culture War?

 

[Della]

I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

Indeed, we shall. Just as many cultures that destroyed themselves in the same ways came to see. Still, every time God stepped in and sent his truth to restore and rebuild. It’s a reoccurring theme in history, easily seen for those who have eyes to see.

 

[Boccherini]

Demographically, America is changing. It’s rapidly becoming younger, more ethnically and religiously diverse, and more educated. As those numbers tilt, it’s harder and harder for conservative policies to take hold.

Yes, if by “conservative values” you mean “conservative American Christian values”. But why assume that all those other ethnic groups agree with your values? (I’m assuming you’re a white American, after all you say you have blue eyes.)

Western liberal types often assume that their values are based on “enlightenment” (i.e. reason) and that because of that, everyone in the world will eventually come to believe in them. But look at something like gay marriage. I always thought it was funny when people said that the anti-gay marriage people were “on the wrong side of history”. Look at the map of where gay marriage is legal – on a global level. It spread very quickly through the West, but, last time I checked, there was only one country in Asia and one country in Africa where gay marriage is legal. They are Israel and South Africa, the most Westernized countries in each continent. When do you see China, India, the Middle East and Africa accepting gay marriage?

Is China “on the wrong side of history”? Aren’t we all being reminded daily that China will be the great superpower of the 21st century? It’s far less likely now than it was, e.g.in the 1980’s, that China will undergo the transformation to become a “liberal” state.

The Middle East has constantly moved towards greater and greater Islamism over the last 50-60 years. Think about Iran. You can find pictures of Iranian women in the 1970’s protesting the Shah’s government dressed in Western clothing. And what did they get? Now they live in a country where they all have to wear hijabs. And the “Arab Spring” that so many people in the West were so excited about has continued the process in other countries.

Western Europe is becoming more “ethnically diverse” too – and what does that mean? It means that women are told to cover up, so as not to “offend” Muslims, and the worst possible crime is to offend the Prophet Mohammed.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

But why assume that all those other ethnic groups agree with your values?

Pardon me, but I never said they did.

 

[NeedImprovement]

From the article linked by the OP:

The government, too, will no longer leave us alone. As I wrote previously concerning Ontario’s war over sex education, the government needs the ability to re-educate children into the values of their secular system, and will go to war with parents for the right to do so. In some European countries, children are being taken away from their parents because Christian beliefs could “harm” the children—and some academics are already suggesting that Christianity could, one day, be “treatable.”

Conservatives want to be left alone to raise their children. The unfortunate fact is that we won’t be.

The secularists never had any intention of letting us carve out enclaves where we could live in peace—and a stream of legislation like Alberta’s Bill 10, which would force home-schoolers and private schools to change their teaching on sexuality, is simply the most recent evidence.

Indeed - what a fine example of ethnic and religious diversity , and of being more educated.

:dts:

As far as America getting younger - That simply isn’t possible when *no one is having children anymore *. . . another demographic problem Canada shares. Of course, the more, um, “educated” probably prefer to use an indirect term for this reality, such as Aging Population

What is true is that children are being indoctrinated at a younger age (as young as 5 years old) with all types of confusing sexual propaganda - way before ever starting to become sexually mature. Parents’ rights are trampled underfoot.

“Wait and see”. . . ? . . . Nah ! I’m going to pray and see.

 

[Anglewannabe]

I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

I actually agree with this. No one really knows the future or how the tide will change

 

[JimG]

I actually agree with this. No one really knows the future or how the tide will change

It’s true, no one can predict the future or how the tide might change due to unforeseen circumstances. But one can observe trends and see which way they are headed.

Carle Zimmerman back in the 1940’s did a study of family structure over the course of history, and wrote a book about it, “Family and Civilization.” His observation was that periods of serious family deconstruction were followed by civilizational decline. He noted such eras at the peak of Greek civilization, at the turning point of Roman civilization, and said that the third such period of family and civilizational decline was now underway in Western civilization.
.
Pope Paul VI in his encyclical Humanae Vitae, predicted many particular social ills that would flow from the widespread acceptance of contraception. Every one of those predictions was fulfilled in spades with the sexual revolution. So while the future cannot be predicted, trends can often be discerned.

Christians often have a sort of fatalistic outlook which is presented as belief in Divine providence. So, for example, we watch benignly as contraception ushers in the sexual revolution, leading to promiscuity, adultery, fornication, single mothers, broken families, deprived children, same sex marriage. We observe as humans are re-designated from being men and women to innumerable gender identities. We watch while religious freedom is gradually undermined. “Not to worry,” we say, “God is in charge, and he has a plan; he has the situation well in hand.” Which seems rather a cop out releasing Christians from any responsibility to work to restore the culture.

 

[BobCatholic]

When the people do not practice their faith, the law will then declare that not practicing the faith to be mandatory.