It's NOT in the Bible, okay?

[nuntym]

does Shakespeare tell you how to read Shakespeare ?
Does looking at a painting tell you how to view it?

Understanding Shakespeare or looking at a painting is NOT a matter of eternal life or eternal death, RedBert. Are you saying that the thing that teaches us eternal truths does not carry a “manual” how to use it?

I don’t know if or how the early Church Fathers told someone to interpret scripture.

I’ll buy this and let you know what i find out. but it looks like they did.

amazon.com/Biblical-Interpretation-Sources-Christian-Thought/dp/0800614143

Now, if you say that you teach Scripture because you are qualified by knowing

Scripture, illumined by tradition, vivified in personal experience, and confirmed by reason. Scripture [however] is primary, revealing the Word of God ‘so far as it is necessary for our salvation.’"

Tradition - the two millennia history of the Christian Church
Reason - rational thinking and sensible interpretation
Experience - a Christian’s personal and communal journey in Christ

Why didn’t you even check whether or not these “principles” are the ones used by the Early Church Fathers to interpret Scripture, who WERE the teachers of the Early Church?

Why do you trust the teachings of these documents you gave us (i.e. traditions) in the interpretation of the Bible?

 

[Lampo]

does Shakespeare tell you how to read Shakespeare ?

No. So you agree the Bible does not have these “principles of interpreting Scripture”, correct?

I don’t know if or how the early Church Fathers told someone to interpret scripture.

I’ll buy this and let you know what i find out. but it looks like they did.

amazon.com/Biblical-Interpretation-Sources-Christian-Thought/dp/0800614143

I’ll save you some $$$, the ECF did not have your “principles” in interpreting Scripture.

 

[RedBert]

Yes I am qualified to teach the Bible.

The principle that you are questioning are so very basic, like context, history and culture. Do you need a stamp of approval on everything?

“My guess is that many Catholics simply don’t want to do the work. They are content to let Mother Church spoon-feed them. (They want to remain “babes in Christ” who drink “milk,” as Paul says.)”
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0402fea3.asp

 

[Lampo]

Yes I am qualified to teach the Bible.

Where did you get this authority? Could you possibly be wrong on anything you teach from the Bible?

 

[Lampo]

The principle that you are questioning are so very basic, like context, history and culture.

You are the one who goes by the Bible alone. Where does the Bible say your “principles of Bible interpretation” include context, history and culture?

 

[nuntym]

Yes I am qualified to teach the Bible.

How? When you did not even study the old teachings of the Early Church to guide you in your reading of the Bible?

The principle that you are questioning are so very basic, like context, history and culture. Do you need a stamp of approval on everything?

If it is so basic, then why do Protestants have thousands of different churches who disagree with each other on the reading of the Bible?

If it is so basic, then why did St Peter say there are things in St Paul’s letters that are “hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures?” (2 Peter 3:16)

And we MUST demand a stamp of approval when something so vital as eternal life is at stake.

“My guess is that many Catholics simply don’t want to do the work. They are content to let Mother Church spoon-feed them. (They want to remain “babes in Christ” who drink “milk,” as Paul says.)”
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0402fea3.asp

And from what you posted: “It’s good to reject sola scriptura and submit to the mind of the Church, but it is also good to show forth a positive love for Scripture.” Show your love by at least learning how to read the Bible correctly and submit to the authority of the Church.

 

[Lampo]

Yes I am qualified to teach the Bible.

I thought you believe that the *Bible *teaches. Am I qualified to teach the Bible? Is Pope Benedict XVI qualified to teach the Bible? How do *you *determine who is qualified to teach the Bible?

 

[RedBert]

wow : am i the only protestant on the board today?
it’s like 30 against 1

I am a slow pitiful typist.

I am allowed to teach the youth ( and adults) by the approval of the pastors, and the congregation.

My views on doctrine, salvation, etc are widely know through lay speaking , personnel testimonies small group studies, committees, etc.
My spiritual gifts are teaching and discernment,
i test all things in scripture.
i love the word of God more than the finest gold.
i tithe
I preach at our church and others
i listen to Christian talk radio
i read the Bible constantly
i read commentaries
I serve others outside church
I seek God
i seek to be wow-ed
people see how may life is being changed by God
I seek out opposing views, whether here, or Jews for Judaism , or Religion hating science sites. sites (iron sharpens iron)
I am here at this site to strengthen my beliefs
I admit when I don’t know or am wrong
I have been told that the parents trust my teaching of their children
parents “make” their kids come to class because I am teaching it
I am in charge of the largest adult Sunday school class (i teach that in a rotation)
I keep learning

and yet I really don’t do any of this at all, but it is God working through me , using me to share His Truth.

 

[RedBert]

and back to the OP

It is not required of Scripture to have a statement to the effect, “The Bible alone is to be used for all spiritual truth,” in order for sola scriptura to be true. Many doctrines in the Bible are not clearly stated, yet they are believed and taught by the church. For example, there is no statement in the Bible that says there is a Trinity, or that Jesus has two natures (God and man), or that the Holy Spirit is the third person in the Godhead. Yet, each of the statements is considered true doctrine within Christianity, being derived from biblical references. So, for the Catholic to require the Protestant to supply chapter and verse to prove Sola Scriptura is valid, is not necessarily consistent with biblical exegetical principles, of which they themselves approve when examining such doctrines as the Trinity, the hypostatic union, etc.

 

[Lampo]

wow : am i the only protestant on the board today?
it’s like 30 against 1

You’re doing fine.

I am allowed to teach the youth ( and adults) by the approval of the pastors, an the congregation.

Where do your pastors and the congregation get their authority to tell you whether or not you are allowed to teach? Do you, your pastor(s) and entire congregation agree on 100% of doctrine? Just wondering.

My views on doctrine, salvation, etc are widely know through lay speaking , personnel testimonies small group studies, committees, etc.

Where is this formula laid out in Scripture? Where does any ECF lay out this formula?

My spiritual gifts are teaching and discernment,

Could you be wrong in any part of your Bible teaching or discernment?

i test all things in scripture.

Test it against what? Your own fallible interpretation?

i love the word of God more than the finest gold.
i tithe
I preach at our church and others
i listen th Christian talk radio
i read the Bible constantly
i read commentaries
I serve others outside church
I seek God
i seek to be wow-ed
people see how may life is being changed by God
I seek out opposing views, whether here, or Jews for Judaism , or Religion hating science sites. sites (iron sharpens iron)
I am here at this site to strengthen my beliefs
I admit when I don’t know or am wrong
I have been told that the parent trust my teaching of their children
parents “make” their kids come to class because I am teaching it
I am in cahrge of the largest adult sunday school class (i teach that in a roation)
I keep learning

What is the earliest this formula was used? Is this formula recorded in Scripture? Do any ECF lay out this formula?

and yet I really don’t do any of this at all, but it is God working through me , using me to share His Truth.

Where in Scripture does God give *you *this authority?
So, can I ask you anything pertaining to faith and morals and have the guarantee that you will be giving me His Truth? If so, let’s try it.

 

[nuntym]

Well, if your gifts are teaching and discernment, then discern why you are following the traditions of those documents you provide us instead of following the traditions of the Early Church Fathers in interpreting Scripture, and how that affects your reading.

and back to the OP

It is not required of Scripture to have a statement to the effect, “The Bible alone is to be used for all spiritual truth,” in order for sola scriptura to be true.

In spite of all the evidence scattered here in CAF that proves sola scriptura is not scriptural, even implicitly? Well, at least let me provide you with this link to peruse.

Gotta go for now.

God bless you everyone.

 

[Caramel]

Yes I am qualified to teach the Bible.

The principle that you are questioning are so very basic, like context, history and culture. Do you need a stamp of approval on everything?

“My guess is that many Catholics simply don’t want to do the work. They are content to let Mother Church spoon-feed them. (They want to remain “babes in Christ” who drink “milk,” as Paul says.)”
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0402fea3.asp

Uh, your link doesn’t work. You must have made a mistake somewhere in there.

 

[Caramel]

wow : am i the only protestant on the board today?
it’s like 30 against 1

I am a slow pitiful typist.

I am allowed to teach the youth ( and adults) by the approval of the pastors, and the congregation.

My views on doctrine, salvation, etc are widely know through lay speaking , personnel testimonies small group studies, committees, etc.
My spiritual gifts are teaching and discernment,
i test all things in scripture.
i love the word of God more than the finest gold.
i tithe
I preach at our church and others
i listen to Christian talk radio
i read the Bible constantly
i read commentaries
I serve others outside church
I seek God
i seek to be wow-ed
people see how may life is being changed by God
I seek out opposing views, whether here, or Jews for Judaism , or Religion hating science sites. sites (iron sharpens iron)
I am here at this site to strengthen my beliefs
I admit when I don’t know or am wrong
I have been told that the parents trust my teaching of their children
parents “make” their kids come to class because I am teaching it
I am in charge of the largest adult Sunday school class (i teach that in a rotation)
I keep learning

and yet I really don’t do any of this at all, but it is God working through me , using me to share His Truth.

OK, agreed, you are a slow typist but you are trying to get your point across and I think you succeed in that!!

 

[Lampo]

It is not required of Scripture to have a statement to the effect, “The Bible alone is to be used for all spiritual truth,” in order for sola scriptura to be true.

I get it. You and all Protestants believe SS is Biblical, just not explicitly even though no one here has been able to show where this is even hinted at in Scripture.

Many doctrines in the Bible are not clearly stated, yet they are believed and taught by the church.

I’m sure here we part ways in our definition of church. Tell me if this is an accurate definition of church, in your estimation. “The church is secondary to the individual. The church is a voluntary association of like-minded individuals gathered together to promote the cause of Jesus.” Would you include all Christians in the church? Would you include Catholics in the church? Does this church teach that infant baptism is necessary? Does this church teach that infant baptism is *not *necessary? Does this church teach that Jesus is fully present in the bread and wine? Does this church teach that Jesus is not fully present in the bread and wine? Does this church teach that the Blessed Virgin Mary was born without original sin and remained free from personal sin her whole life? Does this church teach that the Blessed Virgin Mary was *not *born without original sin and did not remain free from personal sin her whole life? Does this church teach that Jesus had blood brothers and sisters? Does this church teach that Jesus did *not *have blood brothers and sisters? I could go on and on here, but hopefully you see my point.

So, for the Catholic to require the Protestant to supply chapter and verse to prove Sola Scriptura is valid, is not necessarily consistent with biblical exegetical principles,

The Bible is divided into chapters and verses. It’s inevitable that chapters and verses will be quoted. You believe that nothing outside of the Bible is necessary for salvation. Believing this, you should be able to show us *from the Bible *where this is found.

of which they themselves approve when examining such doctrines as the Trinity, the hypostatic union, etc.

That’s because Catholics don’t go by the Bible alone.

 

[Lampo]

snip

 

[Lampo]

Is it a Christian Doctrine that there are exactly 27 books in the New Testament? Where does the Bible say which books should be included in the New Testament?

Is it necessary for salvation to believe that the entire New Testament was written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit?

 

[Caramel]

this link to peruse.

Thank you for the link. It is great!!

God bless you!!

 

[qui_est_ce]

“My guess is that many Catholics simply don’t want to do the work. They are content to let Mother Church spoon-feed them. (They want to remain “babes in Christ” who drink “milk,” as Paul says.)”

Are you serious?

The Catholic Church has more schools than any other organization in the whole world. Sapienza University was founded by Pope Boniface VIII in 1303 as Studium Urbis. With its current 145,000 students, it is the largest university in Europe. The pope established it so that Rome might become the center of learning and science.

The brightest and most intelligent brains in the world are Catholic. (St Augustine, St. Jerome, Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI, St Teresa of Avila).

In my little city alone, we have 3 Catholic universities. Over 90% of parishes are affiliated with an elementary schools. We have RCIA and Bible Study, where discussion and in depth study is encouraged. For children attending public schools, virtually every parish has PSR classes.

The Catholic Church STARTED the school system in the US.

 

[RedBert]

Are you serious?

The Catholic Church has more schools than any other organization in the whole world. Sapienza University was founded by Pope Boniface VIII in 1303 as Studium Urbis. With its current 145,000 students, it is the largest university in Europe. The pope established it so that Rome might become the center of learning and science.

The brightest and most intelligent brains in the world are Catholic. (St Augustine, St. Jerome, Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI, St Teresa of Avila).

In my little city alone, we have 3 Catholic universities. Over 90% of parishes are affiliated with an elementary schools. We have RCIA and Bible Study, where discussion and in depth study is encouraged. For children attending public schools, virtually every parish has PSR classes.

The Catholic Church STARTED the school system in the US.

The CONTEXT was studying the Bible , the SOURCE is from Catholic.com

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0402fea3.asp

 

[Lampo]

The CONTEXT was studying the Bible , the SOURCE is from Catholic.com

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0402fea3.asp

And from what you posted: “It’s good to reject sola scriptura and submit to the mind of the Church, but it is also good to show forth a positive love for Scripture.”