It's NOT in the Bible

[Isaiah45_9]

I was talking about the division of the RCC in 1054 with the other 4 Apostolic Churches and then again with the Protestant reformation. So see everyone has a different take on tradition and interpretation of the Sciptures. The Bible needs to be followed, that is the Word of God. Some men have their own agenda, so one needs to be careful who to listen to. All Christians are given the HS, but some don’t use it and some don’t listen to it, and some haven’t fed it. Why don’t you tell me what Matt 17:21 says.

21 Howbeit this akind goeth not out but by prayer and bfasting.

I asked specifically for the NIV version, but you probably know it is not there. Thus you can’t post from the NIV.

Who put the NIV together and why did they leave the verse out?

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Well apparently it happened in 1054 right, and then with the Protestants. Men are fallible and not all follow the HS. , thats why they need to follow the Bible and not their own agenda.

This was your answer to Nicea from this:

Your position is true to a point. However, if the Holy Spirit inspires us all,then why thousands of different denominations,sects,beliefs,etc? Since when did the Holy Spirit teach conflicting TRUTHS? Where is that in the Bible?

God the Father teaches…ONE TRUTH
God the Son taught…ONE TRUTH
God the Holy Spirit…teaches…MULTIPLE TRUTHS?

You are saying that apparently it happened in 1054 and then with the Protestants.

I am asking you to please explain how did the Holy Spirit taught different truths in 1054 and with the Protestants, because I truly don’t know.

Can you please explain?

Thanks

 

[Miriam1947]

Well apparently it happened in 1054 right, and then with the Protestants. Men are fallible and not all follow the HS. , thats why they need to follow the Bible and not their own agenda.

1054, are you talking about the Orthodox? They have Apostolic succession and as such have a valid Eucharist. Separated but still part of the original, unlike Protestants.

In fact Protestantism has changed so much that today’s Protestant churches don’t even follow Luther who was Catholic and kept many of the beliefs of the CC.

Just ask your Protestant friend about Mary. Many Lutherans still believe but, the rest of the Protestant community, not so much.

 

[batman1973]

1054, are you talking about the Orthodox? They have Apostolic succession and as such have a valid Eucharist. Separated but still part of the original, unlike Protestants.

In fact Protestantism has changed so much that today’s Protestant churches don’t even follow Luther who was Catholic and kept many of the beliefs of the CC.

Just ask your Protestant friend about Mary. Many Lutherans still believe but, the rest of the Protestant community, not so much.

Here’s a LCMS entry on Mariolgy from their Christian Cyclopedia:
Devotion to Mary was modified by the Luth. Reformation.* For many yrs. M. Luther* held that Mary had been conceived without sin (WA 4, 559; 17 II, 409; 31 II, 689). But later he held that it was at Christ’s conception that she was totally purged of sin (WA 39 II, 107). He held that she remained a virgin in childbirth (WA 40 Illinois, 680) and for the rest of her life (WA 48, 579). Throughout his life Luther insisted that she is the mother of God (WA 7, 545: 36, 60; 10 II, 407). In 1522 he urged that one pray the Ave Maria but omitted “Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death” (WA 10 II, 407–409). For Luther, Mary was “queen of Heaven,” but he warns against making that name say too much (WA 7, 573).

 

[Arizona_Samson]

Do you believe God does NOT need an arbiter on earth?

No, I don’t. What is truly amazing is apparently you do.

Seriously?

As serious as my faith in the One who proclaimed;

**“Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh; is anything too difficult for Me?” Jer 32:27
**

 

[Luvtosew]

Grace and Peace from God the Father and Blessing from His Son, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Can you please explain how there were multiple truths lead by the Holy Spirit in 1054 and with the Protestans?

Who is saying that all men follow the HS?

You say we need to follow the Bible, but there’s some unanswered questions in another thread from your opinion of Bible Alone. Can you please explain?

Can you please find what Matthew 17:21 says in the NIV translation?

And please what is this agenda you mention?

Thanks.

Thanks for showing that to me about Matt 17:2 which is not in the NIV, but is is in my KJV and Nab which I use, but my Niv has a concordance in it.

oh the agenda of some, like there is one on TV , a money preacher and he is into sending him money and well somehow double or triple that will somehow by a miracle will show up in your mailbox so he is preaching verses about tithing, and some people I’m sure believe him, if hey send him a grand they will end up with 3 grand by a miracle, well he has an agenda.
Unforturnately some people use the Bible like that, but to add stuff to the Bible is not right either, so one must not take verses literaly or a verse alone.

 

[Luvtosew]

1054, are you talking about the Orthodox? They have Apostolic succession and as such have a valid Eucharist. Separated but still part of the original, unlike Protestants.

In fact Protestantism has changed so much that today’s Protestant churches don’t even follow Luther who was Catholic and kept many of the beliefs of the CC.

Just ask your Protestant friend about Mary. Many Lutherans still believe but, the rest of the Protestant community, not so much.

True but Luthern wasn’t totally against Catholic doctrine , one thing he was against was of course indulgences for getting our of purgatory and the sacrifice of the Mass.

Protestants that I know talk and bring up God all the time, not Mary, but they do have respect for her, but the Catholics I know don’t even want to talk about God, so I’m on this forum because I like to talk about God. I am aware that Protestants are more divided also , but Catholics follow the Catholic teaching, or some do I should say. Lutheran kept a lot of Catholic being a Catholic monk himself. He did not want to not be Catholic, from what I understand from reading, but it turned out that way.

 

[Nicea325]

No, I don’t. What is truly amazing is apparently you do.

As serious as my faith in the One who proclaimed;

**“Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh; is anything too difficult for Me?” Jer 32:27
**

And the more appaent shocking news that you believe Christ founded His Church for no apparent reason,thus not shocking at all for you not to believe. That being the case, since no infallible external source is needed as you believe, please show me one verse where the Bible provides or mentions the canon?

Yes and serious enough for Paul to say:

These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly; but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 1 Tim 3:14-15

 

[Nicea325]

Well apparently it happened in 1054 right, and then with the Protestants. Men are fallible and not all follow the HS. , thats why they need to follow the Bible and not their own agenda.

Really? What new Truths were revealed by the Holy Spirit in 1054 and with the thousands of Protestant sects?

 

[Luvtosew]

Really? What new Truths were revealed by the Holy Spirit in 1054 and with the thousands of Protestant sects?

Gee I dont know, why did Rome divide from the other 4 and why did Luther get upset, and there were protestant groups before Luther. You maybe don’t realize not all ECF agreed on everything , well some that didn’t were called herectics. Really all Bishops didn’t agree either, and not all Catholics agree on everything.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Gee I dont know, why did Rome divide from the other 4

Over whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son, but in reality it had more to do with Byzantine infighting.

and why did Luther get upset,

He had OCD and wanted a mistress. The 95 theses were really a red herring since the Church has never taught that indulgences forgive sins.

and there were protestant groups before Luther. You maybe don’t realize not all ECF agreed on everything , well some that didn’t were called herectics. Really all Bishops didn’t agree either, and not all Catholics agree on everything.

If you think the Gnostics and Cathars were Protestant Christians I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[Nicea325]

Gee I dont know, why did Rome divide from the other 4 and why did Luther get upset, and there were protestant groups before Luther. You maybe don’t realize not all ECF agreed on everything , well some that didn’t were called herectics. Really all Bishops didn’t agree either, and not all Catholics agree on everything.

And that is the core foundation of Protestanism: self-centeredness. The attitude, “It is what I say it is and that is all.” Does not matter an iota if Catholics disagree,because it is not about opinions,but the Truth. Christ promised to guide His Truth,Christ did not ask for our opinions and then decide.

 

[Luvtosew]

Over whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son, but in reality it had more to do with Byzantine infighting.

He had OCD and wanted a mistress. The 95 theses were really a red herring since the Church has never taught that indulgences forgive sins.

If you think the Gnostics and Cathars were Protestant Christians I don’t know what to tell you.

No Luther didn’t do it to just get married. They were selling indulgences and he was against that. It maybe so easy to say anyone who disagreed had a psychological problem or this or that, any excuse one can find I guess is acceptable. How many Pope had mistrresses and kids out of wedlock.

 

[Luvtosew]

And that is the core foundation of Protestanism: self-centeredness. The attitude, “It is what I say it is and that is all.” Does not matter an iota if Catholics disagree,because it is not about opinions,but the Truth. Christ promised to guide His Truth,Christ did not ask for our opinions and then decide.

I hear the same thing over and over, Christ has a body of Chruches, not just one. To say the core of Protestantism is self centered, is not truth.

 

[Nicea325]

No Luther didn’t do it to just get married. They were selling indulgences and he was against that. It maybe so easy to say anyone who disagreed had a psychological problem or this or that, any excuse one can find I guess is acceptable. How many Pope had mistrresses and kids out of wedlock.

And popes having side kicks and kids proves what?

 

[Luvtosew]

And popes having side kicks and kids proves what?

Well lets not put Luther down since he married a nun, when there were pope not leading virtious lives.

 

[Nicea325]

I hear the same thing over and over, Christ has a body of Chruches, not just one. To say the core of Protestantism is self centered, is not truth.

Wrong! Christ Church was not founded on a body of Churches,but only ONE. Christ Body is one…not thousands of different denominations. And yes Protestanism was founded on self-centeredness,whether you care to admit it or not. When did God gave those men who founded their own churches the authority to split His Church? Those pushed for their own agendas over the will of the church…big difference.

 

[Nicea325]

Well lets not put Luther down since he married a nun, when there were pope not leading virtious lives.

Does not matter,Luther broke his vow of celibacy as well as the nun he married. No different when someone joins the military,one takes an oath the same day he or she is shipped out to boot camp. I speak from experience.

 

[Luvtosew]

Wrong! Christ Church was not founded on a body of Churches,but only ONE. Christ Body is one…not thousands of different denominations. And yes Protestanism was founded on self-centeredness,whether you care to admit it or not. When did God gave those men who founded their own churches the authority to split His Church? Those pushed for their own agendas over the will of the church…big difference.

Well apparently they disagreed with the Churches teaching, does that make them self centered I don’t think so. Yes Christ wants one body of believers thought out the world I agree with that, but I don’t think he meant for all to go to the same worship to a building with one name on it. Whether you like to admit it or not, Protestants are Christians as well as RCs. Didn’t the Pope say we are to embrace our brothers in Christ.

This is off topic too as were suppose to talk about stuff not in the Bible.

 

[Nicea325]

Well apparently they disagreed with the Churches teaching, does that make them self centered I don’t think so. Yes Christ wants one body of believers thought out the world I agree with that, but I don’t think he meant for all to go to the same worship to a building with one name on it. Whether you like to admit it or not, Protestants are Christians as well as RCs. Didn’t the Pope say we are to embrace our brothers in Christ.

This is off topic too as were suppose to talk about stuff not in the Bible.

Never said a word, Protestants were not Christian. They disagreed with doctrines which conflicted with their own personal doctrines: Faith Alone,etc,etc,Pre-destination,etc. Yes…that is self-centered for one to claim: I am right and 1500 years of Christianity got it down wrong. End results: THOUSANDS of different denominations. Many Christians deny the existence of Hell…does that make them right and God incorrect?