It's not the law that saves you – it's Christ, Pope reflects

[JimR-OCDS]

Vatican City, Oct 31, 2014 / 01:34 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Christians who cling to the law and not to love are like the hypocrite Pharisees in the Gospel, Pope Francis said in today’s homily.

After Jesus meets a sick person in a Pharisee’s home on the Sabbath day in Luke 14:1-6, he asks the Pharisees and scholars of the Jewish law present: “Is it lawful to cure on the Sabbath or not?”

Receiving only silent stares, Jesus heals the man and then tells the Pharisees: “Who among you, if your son or ox falls into a cistern, would not immediately pull him out on the Sabbath day?”

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Jim

 

[Neofight]

Right on! Pretty much Letter to the Galatians stuff!

 

[godisgood77]

Couldn’t be more clear!!!

I wonder if these words are directed to certain Curial Officers??

 

[Brendan]

Couldn’t be more clear!!!

I wonder if these words are directed to certain Curial Officers??

Probably none at all, as the law of the Church is a direct reflection of the Gospel.

Civil law, on the other hand, even those that promote civil charity, have no salvic value.

 

[godisgood77]

Probably none at all, as the law of the Church is a direct reflection of the Gospel.

Civil law, on the other hand, even those that promote civil charity, have no salvic value.

Sure… however civil law that promote civil charity are explicit in and align to the Gospel.
Therefore, a civil law that promotes civil charity would carry salvic value as it is a reflection of the Gospel. An intrinsically good civil law, is of the Gospel.

Anyway… my point was to ask if these words at this time by the Pope are meant to remind those Church leaders who are overly concerned with laws as an end and not the praxis that those laws should inform.

 

[Brendan]

Sure… however civil law that promote civil charity are explicit in and align to the Gospel.
Therefore, a civil law that promotes civil charity would carry salvic value as it is a reflection of the Gospel. An intrinsically good civil law, is of the Gospel.

That is true, the obligation of civil law is to reflect the Natural Moral Law. But a vote, or an avocation for a particular policy grants no Grace. No civil law can replace, or even fulfil, Matthew 25, for example.

Anyway… my point was to ask if these words at this time by the Pope are meant to remind those Church leaders who are overly concerned with laws as an end and not the praxis that those laws should inform.

Your premise implies that such Church leaders exist. I am unaware of any such leader in the Church, in the Curia or not.

 

[TEPO]

Anyway… my point was to ask if these words at this time by the Pope are meant to remind those Church leaders who are overly concerned with laws as an end and not the praxis that those laws should inform.

Im not sure the laws are even meant to inform so much as simply be followed. I see Canon laws as laws of the world in the world -based on assisting the salvation of souls. They are laws created by human beings for human beings in this world. Whatever laws created here are created through the authority of the Keys that were given to men by God.

Is that a fair analogy?

 

[TEPO]

In fact, if a catholic despises the ways that canon laws are applied, there is no need for reconciliation. Because theyre created by human beings not by God directly.

But obedience to the law is still crucial for salvation. Because what we bind here is bound in heaven.

 

[Brendan]

In fact, if a catholic despises the ways that canon laws are applied, there is no need for reconciliation. Because theyre created by human beings not by God directly.

Not necessarily.

Certainly, Laws for the organization for the Church ( the establishment of diocesan boundries, the specifics on the election of the Pope…etc, are man made and thus changeable

But Canon Law also includes the articulation of Divinely established Law as well. The Nature and some of the administration of the Eucharist, of Confirmation, of Marriage for example.

While such laws exist within the context of Canon Law, they certainly ARE Divine in origin.

The Church may change the age at which a person may be admitted to the Eucharist, but it cannot change that the Minister of the Sacrament is a man with valid Sacerdotal Orders.

It can change the requirements for marriage banns, or who the official witness might be, for example, but cannot change the indissoluability of marriage.

Canon Law reflects both the civil administration of the Church ( man made) but also the manifestation of the Divine Law.

 

[manualman]

Hmm,

There is a distinct dichotomy that I fear some people are not recognizing here. And frankly, it baffles me that the pope seems to assume that people recognize it in an age when the majority of the “faithful” can’t even define “transubstantiation” or “Pentecost.”

Paul and Jesus were both rebuking those who placed so much emphasis on the works of the Mosaic Law that they neglected to actually love God. The purpose of Mosaic Law was essentially to demonstrate the sinful imperfections of man. They do NOT all reflect the character of God. The moral law (or Natural Law), on the other hand, DOES always reflect the character of God.

Thus, when a healer heals on Sabbath, has pork for lunch or uses an ‘unclean’ cooking bowl, the action does not inherently conflict with God’s character. When a man commits adultery, the action DOES inherently conflict with God’s character. In the former case, it’s entirely possible for a scenario to come up in which the dictates of love require the breaking of the Mosaic Law. In the case of the latter, it is never possible. Loving God is simply not compatible with acting in contradiction to His character. Francis knows this for sure. I’m not so sure most of his listeners do.

 

[TEPO]

Not necessarily.

Certainly, Laws for the organization for the Church ( the establishment of diocesan boundries, the specifics on the election of the Pope…etc, are man made and thus changeable

But Canon Law also includes the articulation of Divinely established Law as well. The Nature and some of the administration of the Eucharist, of Confirmation, of Marriage for example.

While such laws exist within the context of Canon Law, they certainly ARE Divine in origin.

The Church may change the age at which a person may be admitted to the Eucharist, but it cannot change that the Minister of the Sacrament is a man with valid Sacerdotal Orders.

It can change the requirements for marriage banns, or who the official witness might be, for example, but cannot change the indissoluability of marriage.

Canon Law reflects both the civil administration of the Church ( man made) but also the manifestation of the Divine Law.

Good points. So the civil administrative aspects are binding because of Canon law… While the divine aspects are binding because they are ‘revealed’ Catholic doctrine, and do not originate in Canon law, but are mentioned again within Canon law.

…I understand thats why you said “not necessarily”… So, we’re on the same page then -so this is good. Hopefully everyone understands this.