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buckr02
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I think Jesus would fail a lot of Protestant seminary classes, too.
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Tietjen
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ā¦ or perhaps young man, you should at least attempt to not come into a CATHOLIC forum without considering the possibility that a signature which suggests that Catholics are not Christian may cause offense. Itās a common sense thing. By the way, I see that you changed your signature. Good move.
It was probably before your timeā¦ WWJD? It stands for What Would Jesus Do? It was the āIN THINGā a while ago. I used it in my response to you because I had hoped that perhaps you could ask yourself whether or not you believed that Jesus would come here and throw around insulting signatures and comments. I apologize for thinking that you were older than you are and thus knew what the WWJD? thing meant.
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ChristianKnight
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comments? Where did I insult someone?
My signature was true, I cannot help it that people interpret it to mean I was calling them non-christians. I changed it, is that not enough?
I am going to be rude here, you insult me for being young, and insult me for insulting. So, its kinda ironic you bashing me for insulting, isnāt it?
I do not want to fight you, but if you want, I do not mine, of course I will probably get banned or something of that nature, and nothing be proved except we both can flame each other on the internet, which is not htat hard.
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Verisimilitude
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I am in favor of making the distinction and if I have to drop the āchristianā label to make it, yes. It is symantics because only a fool would suggest Catholics are not Christian though what is it considered to be a Christian today?
Bill Richardson is Governor of New Mexico. He says he is Catholic (see Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Bill Ritter, Ted Kennedyā¦). He is very pro-abortion and flaunts it in the face of the Church as well as every other Catholic.
Obama says he is a Christian, like Hillary and a host of other āChristiansā that support abortion.
Supporting abortion is neither Christian or Catholic. I (the Church) can easily tell Catholics this and urge them to reconsider their choice or ask them to leave the faith they publicly disagree with.
I have no standing in telling the non-Catholic Christian to leave a faith I do not belong to, but what they do in the name of/or despite Christianity gives all Christians- to include Catholics a false impression of Christ.
Abortion is only one political issue that blurrs the lines between what it means to be a Christian or Catholic. I think there are others that are less definative as a Christian moral- such as war and the role of government.
I know what it means to be Catholic- ask the Pope. I donāt know what it means to be Christian-ask Bill Clinton, or Obama, or some woman preacher, or a Mormon, orā¦
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RebeccaJ
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onetimeposter, there is only one reason to be a Christian, and that is Jesus Christ. And there is only one reason to be a Catholic, and that would be the Sacraments that Christ instituted.
It is your choice, of course, to leave the Sacraments behind. To view them as burdens and set them aside.
May God protect you on your journey.
Rebecca
It is your choice, of course, to leave the Sacraments behind. To view them as burdens and set them aside.
May God protect you on your journey.
Rebecca
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qui_est_ce
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Pax
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You are certainly right about this, however, God is the one that determines how the relationship should be established and defined. When we decide to make the determination on an individual basis we immediately fall into error.
I have been reading this thread and must say that your experience with the Church is clearly different from mine. Likewise, your view of the Church clearly differs from my view of the Church based on scripture.
You have many difficulties with the Church and find them to be a hindrance to your relationship with Christ. I have the exact opposite view and experience. How is it that so many would agree that life and faith have difficulties, but that the Church enhances their relationship with God while this seems so impossible for you?
If the Catholic Church is what you think it is, then no one could benefit from it. Nevertheless, the Church has been in existence since the day of Pentecost and it will continue until the end of time.
The continued existence of the Catholic Church is an on going miracle of Christ within our midst. Outside forces could not destroy the Catholic Church, sinful members and powerful dissenters could not destroy the Church, and not even corrupt priests and bishops could destroy the Church from within over its more than 2000 year history.
You are leaving that which is the truth. The fact that the Church still exists, inspite of all the difficulties, is a testimony to the truth and claims which the Catholic Church presents in her role as a light to the world.
You made a claim in a prior post that you could refute all arguments on confessing sins to a priest. That is a bold statement. We have had discussions on this forum many times and those that thought they could do the same were completely unable to mount reasonable arguments against the doctrine. They werenāt necessarily persuaded, but their arguments didnāt hold a candle to the scriptural evidence from the Old and New Testaments that was brought to bear by the knowledgeable Catholics on this forum. Your anxiety about confession is not an argument against it. Feelings mean nothing. We all have anxieties admitting that we are wrong.
I went through a powerful second conversion experience about ten years ago. I had been playing the role of a cafeteria catholic. The most liberating thing I did when I went through this experience was to completely submit myself to Christās Church.
Upon doing so, I took on every question and doubt and began an intensive study of the issues. In every single case, I discovered that the Church was right and I did this based almost exclusively on scripture. My biggest problems and stumbling blocks prior to my second conversion were my beloved vices and my extraordinary pride. You may or may not have these problems, but honest and humble self-examination is always worthwhile.
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MrS
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Or He might askā¦ what did you do for 4 centuries before My guys gave you the Bible??
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Rolltide
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Because the Early Church Fathers were the first few generations of Christians after the Apostles. Some were actually TAUGHT by the Apostles themselves. If you want to get a good idea of how passages are truly meant to be interpreted, you canāt get any better than someone who spoke with the Apostles themselvesā¦
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ChristianKnight
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I want to read them for myself first, even if they were taught by the apostles.
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MrS
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I noticed in your bio that you are a Baptist who likes to fightā¦ and farm.
Who woulda thunk it?
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jmcrae
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Some good English translations include The Faith of the Early Fathers (3 volumes), edited by William Jurgens, The Sources of Catholic Dogma, edited by Denzinger and translated by Defarrari (also published under the title Enchiridion Symbolorum) and The Sunday Sermons of the Great Fathers (four volumes), from Ignatius Press.
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terryobrien80
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Yup. Now you can just ādo your own thingā. If you like something, you can take it: if you donāt you can leave it. You can just make a God of your own understanding and you never have to worry about doing anything āwrongā because right and wrong is now up to you to decide, right? Isnāt that great? And guess what: If you donāt like what your new church teaches, you can āchurch shopā until you find the one that suits your own opinions. Fantastic. You have a nice wide road to travel on now. Forget the narrow, difficult road: You can cruise the Interstate now and do whatever you feel like. <<sarcasm intended - what a schlemiel>>So, I just, in great detail, explained to my wife why I no longer consider myself a RC and why I have left the Church. She totally understood and supports my decision.
I feel great, like the chains of bondage have been removed. The RCC is a fine institution and if some people can find God within that particular Church, then it is a very good thing.
The Church was holding me back, for years, this is an exciting time. I no longer have the distraction of the all the Catholic requirements that are necessary for any hope of my salvation. Those distractions also prevented me from forming any relationship with God.
When someone asks, ā are you a Catholicā, I will respond, nope I am a Christian!
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ralphinal
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ChristianKnight, if I may interject one small line of reasoning into the confession discussion.
Did sin leave the world after the the last Apostle died? If so, logically, there is no need for the authority to forgive sins to be passed along to those who held the Apostolic offices next. If sin remained, why would God not insure that the authority to forgive sins would not remain as well? Simple logic. The need is still there, so it should be allowed.
Did sin leave the world after the the last Apostle died? If so, logically, there is no need for the authority to forgive sins to be passed along to those who held the Apostolic offices next. If sin remained, why would God not insure that the authority to forgive sins would not remain as well? Simple logic. The need is still there, so it should be allowed.
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qui_est_ce
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Successorship was a given at the time of Jesus, so there was no need for Jesus to repeat it. It is up to the person disputing successorship to prove Jesus did not intend his Apostles have successors.
***Matthew 23:1-2
1
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples,
2 saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses**.
3 **
Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example**. For they preach but they do not practice. *
So, there we have it. There are sinful men who are administrators of the Law!
Moses was author of the first five books of the OT, also known as The Law, the Old Covenant. Jesus tells us that the Pharisees sit on the seat of Moses, obey them. The Pharisees were the āPopesā of the Old Covenant. Now if that covenant be passed away, who is the new authority? Jesus. who came after him to administer the New Covenant? Jesus successors, the Apostles and their successors. Mosesā Chair was replaced by Peterās Chair upon which each of the bishops of Rome sit in succession at the Pope. The Pope sits on Peterās chair, so, in matters of faith and moralsā¦what should we do?
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ChristianKnight
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I never said people donāt sinā¦
um, I would do what I feel best for whatever the faith/moral affects.
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Pax
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The NT scriptures tell us to confess our sins, and they do so in language that is not optional.
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qui_est_ce
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Yes, but my point was that successorship is Biblical, and that seemed to be your problem with Confession.
This type of thinking is what leads to so many āflavorsā of Protestantism. There is but one Truth, and that Truth does not rest on my feelings or opinions. I may not like the Truth, it may be inconvenient, or I might not even understand it. But I believe it.
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