I've officially left the Church

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1holycatholic said:
The son had come to his senses. He stopped sinning, repented and asked for forgiveness. The father welcomed him back.
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He said he was sorry and in return wanted to work his way back into his dad’s good graces, but his dad rejected that notion. What brought him home was remembering his father’s love. The son was not met at the door by his dad to hear him demanding he do something to get back into the door of his house. No matter how you want to split the proverbial hairs, the son did nothing to recieve complete forgiveness. It was given to him the moment his dad saw him coming. Why would you want to serve a God who accepts you only when you do something to earn it?
 
jmcrae said:
Not everyone.

I can hear God speaking to me (although probably not because I am a great Saint - it is probably just because I need a lot of extra help, actually 😊 ), and the interesting thing about that is that He sometimes tells me directly, to go to Confession with a priest … 🤷
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Where does it say in the bible that no one but saints can hear him?
 
ChristianKnight said:
Scripture to prove? Sorry, but I like to see scripture that says it, not tryin to be rude.
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We see St. Paul’s instructions to his successor St. Timothy, for St. Timothy also to appoint successors to himself by the ordination of Bishops and Deacons, in I Timothy 3. He shows the line of succession from Christ, through himself, to Timothy, in chapter 1:12-18 of the same book.

It seems obvious from this that the Church intended its ministry to be for all time, and not only for the first generation of Christians.
 
PaulDupre said:
The early church fathers saw it quite clearly. .
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The early Church did not use private auricular confession. Public confession was the practice of the day. Auricular confession wasn’t even mentioned for the first 4 centuries!

If the Church was as authentic as they claim…why not a return to public confession?
 
reteeks21 said:
He said he was sorry and in return wanted to work his way back into his dad’s good graces, but his dad rejected that notion. What brought him home was remembering his father’s love. The son was not met at the door by his dad to hear him demanding he do something to get back into the door of his house. No matter how you want to split the proverbial hairs, the son did nothing to recieve complete forgiveness. It was given to him the moment his dad saw him coming. Why would you want to serve a God who accepts you only when you do something to earn it?
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Notice that the father did not follow his son into the dens of iniquity with the prostitutes. Nor did he meet him at the pig pen. He waited at home, and waited for the son to want to return.

If the son had never made the voluntary decision to return, he never would have received his father’s forgiveness.
 
onetimeposter said:
The early Church did not use private auricular confession. Public confession was the practice of the day. Auricular confession wasn’t even mentioned for the first 4 centuries!

If the Church was as authentic as they claim…why not a return to public confession?
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Jesus gave the Apostles (and through them, their successors) authority over the discipline of the Church. It is allowed, therefore, that they can establish how and where we go to Confession.

“Aricular” means “by ear” - it can be done both publicly and privately. Private confession to a priest is mentioned as early as 240 AD by Origen in his homily on Psalm 37. He also mentions public confession at the same time - it seems as though both were going on at the same time, at that time. He indicates that a possible penance one might receive during private confession to a priest alone might be to make a public confession in the church.
 
jmcrae said:
Notice that the father did not follow his son into the dens of iniquity with the prostitutes. Nor did he meet him at the pig pen. He waited at home, and waited for the son to want to return.

If the son had never made the voluntary decision to return, he never would have received his father’s forgiveness.
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The son went home because he remembered his dad’s love. Notice how the father let him go do those things. The son did head home but only after he remembered his dad. Regardless, he did not have to jump through any hoops to be given forgiveness. Even us protestants recognize that he had to come home first, but when he got there he didn’t have to spend time proving he was penitent. The son earned nothing; it was freely given to him.
 
ChristianKnight said:
Where does it say in the bible that no one but saints can hear him?
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In the Old Testament, the Prophets could hear Him, but not the regular people. The regular people had to listen to the Prophets.

The Apostles were also able to hear God’s voice in their ears, but they had to tell the people what God was saying - the people themselves didn’t know.
 
reteeks21 said:
The son went home because he remembered his dad’s love. Notice how the father let him go do those things. The son did head home but only after he remembered his dad. Regardless, he did not have to jump through any hoops to be given forgiveness. Even us protestants recognize that he had to come home first, but when he got there he didn’t have to spend time proving he was penitent. The son earned nothing; it was freely given to him.
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And God freely gives us everything, when we come home to the Church. We are saved by grace. I don’t know what “works” you think we are required to do, but everything is actually very, very simple - there is nothing difficult.
 
reteeks21 said:
The son went home because he remembered his dad’s love. Notice how the father let him go do those things. The son did head home but only after he remembered his dad. Regardless, he did not have to jump through any hoops to be given forgiveness.
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What “hoops” do you think Catholics have to “jump through”?
Even us protestants recognize that he had to come home first, but when he got there he didn’t have to spend time proving he was penitent. The son earned nothing; it was freely given to him.
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Neither do we - when I go to Confession, God, through the priest, right away forgives me of my sins. It’s amazingly easy. 🙂
 
onetimeposter said:
The early Church did not use private auricular confession. Public confession was the practice of the day. Auricular confession wasn’t even mentioned for the first 4 centuries!

If the Church was as authentic as they claim…why not a return to public confession?
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You must have missed post # 357.

Indeed, in the beginning public confession was the norm. This was a discipline, not a doctrine (you know the difference, right?). Confession in the presence of the priest is doctrine. Whether it is public or private is a matter of discipline, which is left to the Church.
 
jmcrae said:
In the Old Testament, the Prophets could hear Him, but not the regular people. The regular people had to listen to the Prophets.

Sure they could: Gideon, Barak, Deborah, Rahab, Samuel’s mom, Daniel, the 3 dudes thrown into the fire (I won’t even attempt to spell their names!), Jehu, Noah, Ezra, Daniel…all people that were not labeled as prophets.

The Apostles were also able to hear God’s voice in their ears, but they had to tell the people what God was saying - the people themselves didn’t know.
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onetimeposter said:
If the Church was as authentic as they claim…why not a return to public confession?
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If Protestantism is actually “reformed” and doing everything as the Early Church did, why do they not have either form of Confession available? 😉
 
jmcrae said:
In the Old Testament, the Prophets could hear Him, but not the regular people. The regular people had to listen to the Prophets.

The Apostles were also able to hear God’s voice in their ears, but they had to tell the people what God was saying - the people themselves didn’t know.
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cf. Matthew 13:10-11
 
reteeks21 said:
Sure they could: Gideon, Barak, Deborah, Rahab, Samuel’s mom, Daniel, the 3 dudes thrown into the fire (I won’t even attempt to spell their names!), Jehu, Noah, Ezra, Daniel…all people that were not labeled as prophets.
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All of these ones are Saints of the Old Testament. None of them are just regular folks. The regular folks are the unnamed people to whom God sent these people that you have named - to tell them His message, which they alone could hear, but the other people could not hear it.
 
jmcrae said:
All of these ones are Saints of the Old Testament. None of them are just regular folks. The regular folks are the unnamed people to whom God sent these people that you have named - to tell them His message, which they alone could hear, but the other people could not hear it.
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They certainly were. Normal folks chosen by God just like any minister or priest is.
 
reteeks21 said:
They certainly were. Normal folks chosen by God just like any minister or priest is.
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Right - but once they take on that Office (because God gave it to them), they have a special relationship with God that the rest of us don’t have.
 
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