I've officially left the Church

[reteeks21]

That doesn’t mean he encouraged the bad behavior. Is this the logic behind this?

Do not insult me by comparing my comments to that of condoning homosexuality and sexual perversion. Of course the dad did not condone his behavior, but my original point was that the dad did not require him to do anything to come back into his house. In fact, he never even uttered the words “I forgive you”. The dad welcomed him back without condition. Why is that so hard to see bu his actions?

 

[reteeks21]

Right - but once they take on that Office (because God gave it to them), they have a special relationship with God that the rest of us don’t have.

That’s just not true. God doesn’t have favorites. By using your logic, the rest of us just don’t matter. That is putting people on a pedestal, and that isn’t right.

 

[onetimeposter]

If Protestantism is actually “reformed” and doing everything as the Early Church did, why do they not have either form of Confession available?

It’s not necessary.

If we confess our sins, he is righteous and just and will forgive us from every wrong doing.

It’s so nice that I now have the ability to go straight to God for forgiveness, instead of having to approach a man I’m told has special powers and who will act as a buffer between me and God.

 

[jmcrae]

Do not insult me by comparing my comments to that of condoning homosexuality and sexual perversion. Of course the dad did not condone his behavior, but my original point was that the dad did not require him to do anything to come back into his house.

Except *to come back. * He had to come back under his own steam, and by his own choice. The Father was not going to force him to come back. He was waiting for him, but he was not going after him.

 

[MrS]

I tried to read quickly through the posts…

and I actually made it up to page 18…

but I few things that I have noticed…

[1] OTP has made up his mind… and wants everyone to know it. I do not believe that the relationship he wants with Jesus is personal, nor will it become personal… too much he is running from will ruin his life.

[2] The OTP has made a decision that will affect his whole family. And they are now not to blame, for their future walk with God will be something OTP will have to answer to God for. Jesus will hold you, OTP, accountable for all the harm that will result from you leaving His Church.

[3] OTP will be guilty of many sins, as we all are… but some things he is doing, and reasoning are obviously out of ignorance. As Jeff Cavins has explained: the only reason anyone leaves the Catholic Church is because they do not really know what it is that they are leaving.

[4] After 370 posts, the most are made by coach (79). It is obvious how he spends his “Lord’s Day”. Usually when a poster questions the use of Fr. or rev, the one using the title will respond. To date, the coach has not… and probably can’t with any rational. I agree with those who refuse to refer to him as anything other than coach or john.
I was under the impression that CAF also required some “proof”, but I an now under the impression… since the “coach” had his account under review ( for the attitude and lack of Christianiany found in his posts I assume ) that they recognize him for what he is… a misguided soul.

I say this, at the risk of infraction points, because I have to ask

OTP… are you content leaving Catholicism knowing that your biggest supporter of this decision is…

.

the “coach”:bigyikes:

 

[onetimeposter]

Right - but once they take on that Office (because God gave it to them), they have a special relationship with God that the rest of us don’t have.

That’s right…the lowly laity have no hope of achieving the same type of relationship that the powerful Roman Catholic Priest has.

We are all men, we are all equal, including the Pope.

 

[onetimeposter]

I tried to read quickly through the posts…

and I actually made it up to page 18…

but I few things that I have noticed…

[1] OTP has made up his mind… and wants everyone to know it. I do not believe that the relationship he wants with Jesus is personal, nor will it become personal… too much he is running from will ruin his life.

[2] The OTP has made a decision that will affect his whole family. And they are now not to blame, for their future walk with God will be something OTP will have to answer to God for. Jesus will hold you, OTP, accountable for all the harm that will result from you leaving His Church.

[3] OTP will be guilty of many sins, as we all are… but some things he is doing, and reasoning are obviously out of ignorance. As Jeff Cavins has explained: the only reason anyone leaves the Catholic Church is because they do not really know what it is that they are leaving.

[4] After 370 posts, the most are made by coach (79). It is obvious how he spends his “Lord’s Day”. Usually when a poster questions the use of Fr. or rev, the one using the title will respond. To date, the coach has not… and probably can’t with any rational. I agree with those who refuse to refer to him as anything other than coach or john.
I was under the impression that CAF also required some “proof”, but I an now under the impression… since the “coach” had his account under review ( for the attitude and lack of Christianiany found in his posts I assume ) that they recognize him for what he is… a misguided soul.

I say this, at the risk of infraction points, because I have to ask

OTP… are you content leaving Catholicism knowing that your biggest supporter of this decision is…

.

the “coach”:bigyikes:

This is not a popularity contest. You take the prize for being the most presumptuous. However, the RCC works for you and I am glad of that. It is a fine faith, however, it is not for me.

This is my last post in relation to this announcement. This is the best decision for me, if you only new.

 

[MrS]

It’s not necessary.

If we confess our sins, he is righteous and just and will forgive us from every wrong doing.

It’s so nice that I now have the ability to go straight to God for forgiveness, instead of having to approach a man I’m told has special powers and who will act as a buffer between me and God.

you can say this in spite of the Lord’s breathing on the Apostles and giving them that very power you now demean??

.

 

[AussieAnn]

Anyway that I can experience the sacred and form a relationship with God will be fine by me. I can do neither of those things within the Church…too many distractions for me.

**The tone around here is like that of an angry mob. **

I can understand where you are coming from. I am a Catholic and am really pleased with my little Church I attend weekly. But sometimes coming to this site makes it seem like no matter how hard I try I will never live up to all the Church’s expectations. I have learnt alot more about my faith through this site but lately I have been more and more unsettled by divisive and just plain nasty comments made my posters.

Just the other day there were endless posts criticising the WYD Final Mass. I can take a bit of good intellectual criticism and theoretical banter but some of the posts were without any intelligence and just downright plain nasty, sarcastic and arrogant. I think Catholics on this forum need to start taking much more care with the way they express themselves. Exspecially when it starts to put other Catholics off! God Bless You on Your Journey.

 

[jmcrae]

It’s not necessary.

On what basis? The Apostles were given the power to forgive sins. They passed it on to their successors. Their successors required both public confession, and private confession to a priest - sometimes both for the same sins.

Did something change in 1517?

If we confess our sins, he is righteous and just and will forgive us from every wrong doing.

“Confess” has within it the idea of “making it known.” God already knows your sins, so there is no “confession” involved in saying you are sorry to God alone - He already knows.

It’s so nice that I now have the ability to go straight to God for forgiveness, instead of having to approach a man I’m told has special powers and who will act as a buffer between me and God.

He’s not a “buffer” that protects you from God - he’s a “window” through whom God can speak to you.

 

[onetimeposter]

you can say this in spite of the Lord’s breathing on the Apostles and giving them that very power you now demean??

.

YES. Nowhere does it say, man must confess to an ordained man employed as a priest of the RCC to receive forgiveness from God.

It is a moot point as far as I’m concerned.

The level of disdain has reached a boiling point around here.

 

[jmcrae]

YES. Nowhere does it say, man must confess to an ordained man employed as a priest of the RCC to receive forgiveness from God.

Actually, it does. You seem to think that this commandment has been repealed at some point along the way, though.

 

[buckr02]

YES. Nowhere does it say, man must confess to an ordained man employed as a priest of the RCC to receive forgiveness from God.

It is a moot point as far as I’m concerned.

The level of disdain has reached a boiling point.

I have to wonder… do you believe in the Trinity?

How about the doctrine that Jesus was both wholly man and wholly divine?

 

[Dale_M]

It is a moot point as far as I’m concerned.

The level of disdain has reached a boiling point.

I haven’t read all 27 pages of this thread, but Non-Catholic Religions can be a testy forum.

But I am a bit perplexed. If you have left the Church, why did you feel the need to make a public announcement?

 

[Cam-masta]

Dear Onetime,
I am a convert to the Catholic Church from an Anglican background for three years strong now, and a self described Fundamentalist Christian for 5 years in the past. During those 5 years I too had this over-confidence of being 'once saved and always saved'. It wasn't until I discovered otherwise through talking with practicing Catholics, and especially researching Catholic belief and practice for myself, that I responded to the Holy Spirit by being Confirmed a Catholic. Because of the Sacraments (which I once rejected), I find myself in a deeper and more honest relationship with God. He has liberated and continues to liberate me from the guilt which proceeds from sin. If you were raised Catholic, I am absolutely baffled as to why you would leave. There are tens of thousands of 'denominations', which compete with one another for members and split amongst themselves over their own private interpretations of the Bible. This is a scandal and assault on Christian unity (John 17:21). The fullness of truth in Christ subsists in one Church and it is Universal (Catholic) which means at all times (in history) and everywhere the same. Only the Catholic Church has taken unity seriously, so seriously that our salvation is inseparable from Christian unity found in each of our Catholicity. May the Holy Spirit lead you back Home.

 

[ChristianKnight]

Do you rely solely on your private interpretation of a Catholic book in order to prove something regarding the faith?

I rely on the word of a holy book. I do not really care what you guys think about my interpretation, I do not just say “this is how I see it, I don’t care how yall do” I say “I see it this way, how does the Catholic Church see it, and why?”

If its wrong to question the scripture’s interpreations, then I am wronging constantly.

 

[reteeks21]

Except *to come back. * He had to come back under his own steam, and by his own choice. The Father was not going to force him to come back. He was waiting for him, but he was not going after him.

Again, I know the son had to come back. It was the knowledge of his dad’s love that brought him back. And when he came back his dad took him without condition. I have tried to get this across 3 times, so I will stop since we both seem to be banging our heads on the wall. No need to get a migraine right now.

 

[jmcrae]

If a pope once said its alright to do indulgence, then it be wrong, isn’t that showing he isn’t infallible?

Not at all, since Indulgences are a matter of Church discipline - they have very little to do with Doctrine. The only time the Pope is Infallible (teaching without error) is when he is declaring a point of Doctrine, using the words "I declare and define … " or words to that effect.

He is not infallible all of the time, and if he wants to change the Indulgences around, he is certainly free to do that, since Indulgences are a matter of discipline, anyway.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Salvation is a free gift and is not dependent upon working your way through a series of necessary requirements that have been established by a self proclaimed infallible institutional Church.

To me salvation is personal, not institutional.

OTP, I sympathize with your struggle and journey and I truly wish God’s blessings be upon you. I am not going to sit here and try to frighten you with hell and words of pity that I hear. But I will say that I have had my own struggles with the RCC and have found a few teachings extremely hard/burdensome to follow. I have left the Church only to come back years ago.

Your comment, “**to me **salvation is personal,” shows that you are trying to mold God into what you want Him to be. Jesus is not just personal, but deals with all of us in a corporate way as well. He uses institutions. If you stop and go read scripture and history, Christ made A Church and He works through it. He is not this individualistic deity we can fashion to fit our sensibilities. He established His Church on Peter. There are so many scriptures about schismatics, so many admonishments to the faithful to stay true and faithful to the Church. The early church is replete with talk of the Eucharist and the Real Presence that you now deny. All of the Fathers believed in that Real Presence, the sacraments, staying true to Apostolic Succession.

Christianity is NOT EASY. It is meant to shape us, transform us, and move us into places with which we’re not always comfortable. I’ve discovered this.

The RCC is full of problems, no doubt. I could make a list of local issues I have and disappointments. But the Church is full of blessings, truth, the fullness of apostolic teaching, etc.

I understand your frustrations but when you remarked that you don’t believe in the Blessed Eucharist, I was saddened because it is the Sacrament that keeps me Catholic! It is the one unshakeable reality I don’t deviate from and that has kept me faithful. There is so much overwhelming evidence of its reality and historicity if you read the fathers, the scriptures, and have seen the miracles. Just go on Youtube and there is a plethora of miracles caught on video.

When I left the Catholic Church, I left period. I didn’t tell anyone or come on any forum. I think you came on here because you wanted to us to talk to you, and you’re not as sure as you say. You still love the Church but you’re angry and I can understand that.

Whatever you do we pray for you and know that you, like the rest of us, are human, and subject to sin and you have your own unique experience that must have soured you to Catholicism. God understands your pain and loves you. But He does have ONE truth. I hope He guides you back to it. Best of luck in Christ!

By the way, what denomination are you going to?

 

[reteeks21]

Not at all, since Indulgences are a matter of Church discipline - they have very little to do with Doctrine. The only time the Pope is Infallible (teaching without error) is when he is declaring a point of Doctrine, using the words "I declare and define … " or words to that effect.

He is not infallible all of the time, and if he wants to change the Indulgences around, he is certainly free to do that, since Indulgences are a matter of discipline, anyway.

Just curious, but isn’t that assuming the CoC elected a truly godly man? Could they have made a mistake in any of their choices? If they did make a mistake, wouldn’t that mean that that particular pope isn’t infallible? Not trying to rude; just something I was curious about.