J.K. Rowling Outs Dumbledore

[estesbob]

I think JK Rowling did a fine job at writing the character of Dumbledore to be a complex and mysterious one. She should have left the mystery there, where those who wanted to could discuss the possibilities. There really was no reason to spell it all out where all of the 8 and 9 year olds even have to think about it now.

 

[KCtheMommy]

Me too!

 

[CatholicSam]

So if it’s not the book why are you concerned about it?

What?! An incredibly famous author, the hero of millions upon millions all over the world makes a statement like this about one of the (I gather) “good guys” in the story who is probably also one of the “heroes” of millions of children, and you have no problem with that?

In a vacuum, yes we could stretch it and say “Oh, how nice, now we have an opportunity to teach our children (whether or not we feel they are ready) about the Church’s teaching on SSA.” But wake up. Look around. There are many countries in the Western world where saying that homosexual activity is sinful, is illegal and punishable by JAIL TIME! You can’t preach the Bible without becoming a prison inmate! It won’t be long at this rate before such legislation makes its way to the USA. Good grief, some people honestly are very happy to bury their little ostritch heads in the sand and convince themselves that Rowling’s statement is neutral or even positive in the context of Catholic family life. :nope: And then anyone who has a problem with this statement of Rowling’s must not have their head screwed on right because “there’s no gay sex in the book” as if that’s the only thing that matters here

Sorry if I seem a little cranky, but as the mother of 2 young children this really does ruffle my feathers!!! What kind of world will my children be forced to live in?

 

[estesbob]

What?! An incredibly famous author, the hero of millions upon millions all over the world makes a statement like this about one of the (I gather) “good guys” in the story who is probably also one of the “heroes” of millions of children, and you have no problem with that?

I thought you said we werent discussing the book?

In a vacuum, yes we could stretch it and say “Oh, how nice, now we have an opportunity to teach our children (whether or not we feel they are ready) about the Church’s teaching on SSA.” But wake up. Look around. There are many countries in the Western world where saying that homosexual activity is sinful, is illegal and punishable by JAIL TIME! You can’t preach the Bible without becoming a prison inmate! It won’t be long at this rate before such legislation makes its way to the USA. Good grief, some people honestly are very happy to bury their little ostritch heads in the sand and convince themselves that Rowling’s statement is neutral or even positive in the context of Catholic family life. :nope: And then anyone who has a problem with this statement of Rowling’s must not have their head screwed on right because “there’s no gay sex in the book” as if that’s the only thing that matters here

The only way we discuss it in a vacuum is if we didn’t discuss the book. You said you were not discussing the book.

Do you disagree church teaching that there is no inherent sin for person who has SSA and remains celibate? Since you say we can’t discuss the book there is no evidence one way or another whether Dumbledore was sexually active. Now if we’re allowed to discuss the book we can say with great certainty if there is absolutely no hint of homosexuality in any of them.

Sorry if I seem a little cranky, but as the mother of 2 young children this really does ruffle my feathers!!! What kind of world will my children be forced to live in?

Two children who will be denied the opportunity to read one of the great Children’s series of all time. My daughters have read the books And neither has run out and taken up magic or started a lesbian affair. Neither suddenly decided Homosexual behavior was okay. Perhaps as because I didn’t overly protect them.

 

[koryp]

My older kids are old enough to both read Harry Potter and to know all about homosexuality. They are also old enough (13 and 16) to read internet news stories about JK Rowling outing Dumbledore.

… I’m not sure if I’m old enough to know all about homosexuality and I’m 27. Rather, I suppose it’s not a function of age, but, perhaps… decency. Some things (like sin of any kind) are better left estranged… ah, but all too often we familiarize ourselves with it.

I’ve read and enjoyed all seven books, and only had a few concerns. I have been planning to read/discuss the books with my children when they are older. But… now I’m not so sure. I realize JK’s statement isn’t apparent in the books. But the influences this will have are difficult to quantify. Though the hype will subside, that “Dumbledore accepts it…” will always remain. And I cannot present this character as a hero to look up to if he doesn’t despise his temptations. Compassion for sinners is different than tolerance for sin, and I think this has crossed a line if her attitude is jovial about the unfortunate temptations of the series’ greatest role model.

• Kory

 

[CatholicSam]

I thought you said we werent discussing the book?

The only way we discuss it in a vacuum is if we didn’t discuss the book. You said you were not discussing the book.

Do you disagree church teaching that there is no inherent sin for person who has SSA and remains celibate? Since you say we can’t discuss the book there is no evidence one way or another whether Dumbledore was sexually active. Now if we’re allowed to discuss the book we can say with great certainty if there is absolutely no hint of homosexuality in any of them.

Two children who will be denied the opportunity to read one of the great Children’s series of all time. My daughters have read the books And neither has run out and taken up magic or started a lesbian affair. Neither suddenly decided Homosexual behavior was okay. Perhaps as because I didn’t overly protect them.

How old are your daughters, Bob?

 

[TMC]

Maybe she did it to hear the noise from all the heads exploding over this nothing comment.

Seriously, this is less than a nothing.

First, if your kids are old enough to read these books I would be surprised if they don’t already have some idea what homosexuality is. If they don’t, that may be a bigger problem. You know what happens when you “shield” your kids from controversial issues until they are “old enough”? They first learn of these things when they are “old enough” to think you are wrong. So, if you disagree with what Rowlings said use it as a teaching moment.

Second, if you think that merely having a homosexual orientation is somehow evil, check your catechism.

There are a lot of issues and problems out there for kids. Whatever comes out of Rowlings mouth is just not one of them

 

[CatholicSam]

Seriously, this is less than a nothing.

Seriously, it’s not. Not in a world that criminalizes preaching the Church’s teachings on homosexuality (check several European countries). Not in a country (USA) where a state just outlawed the use of “husband,” “wife,” “mom” and “dad” in public schools because it might be viewed negatively by gays. There is a much bigger picture here that you, Bob, and many others are turning a blind eye to.

 

[TMC]

There is a much bigger picture here that you, Bob, and many others are turning a blind eye to.

OK, I guess we will just have to disagree on this. I have never bought into the idea that we are engaged in some kind of cultural war for the hearts of our children, and even if we were, the off-hand comments of a fiction writer thousands of miles away just don’t effect my family.

 

[Joe_5859]

But what if she does decide to do a sequel or prequel, and includes homosexual references now that Dumbledore is “out”? I just feel that parents can never be TOO vigilant nowadays.

This is what concerns me the most. As someone else pointed out, unlike Tolkien and Lewis, Rowling is still alive and can thus add whatever details she wants to the Potter “universe”.

Also, even though the fact doesn’t show up in the books, from here on out, it makes it difficult for anyone reading the books to not read this fact into the character, especially seeing as it comes from the author.

It always irritates me when people say “It’s only fiction! If you don’t like it, don’t read it!” Of course it’s fiction, and of course the decision to read it or not is up to each person. But, as I think someone else pointed out, fiction impacts people!

That being said, I’m actually not anti-Potter I used to be, but I’m coming around (though I’ll probably stay on the fence until I have time to read all the books myself).

I’d also be interested to see Rowlings comments about “questioning authority” in context. As a Catholic, I know my first thought was “Church authority”, but it’s quite possible she meant secular authority, which, of course, I agree with (how can we not question secular authority who legalizes abortion?)

Anyway, sorry this post has been a bit disjointed. I’ve been looking into Harry Potter more in the past few weeks and felt like sharing my random thoughts

 

[CatholicSam]

OK, I guess we will just have to disagree on this. I have never bought into the idea that we are engaged in some kind of cultural war for the hearts of our children, and even if we were, the off-hand comments of a fiction writer thousands of miles away just don’t effect my family.

Oh how I wish that this were the case. But you honestly don’t believe that there is a culture war going on? Wow.

 

[Delphinus85]

I STILL support the series. It’s great literature! And frankly, I was disappointed to hear Rowling did this to her character, but…it doesn’t change the brilliance that is the story. Dumbledore’s sexual orientation is never a major plot point, and it took her coming out in the open and explaining to her fans that dumbledore was gay, because it was never even mentioned or discussed in the series. Many people, like myself, assumed that Dumbledore never fell in love because after losing his whole family, he didn’t want to truly love that much again. shrugs

Besides, it could be argued that Rowling does brilliant things in her writing. She created imperfect and complex characters that we can identify with and fall in love with. Take Severus, the fandom that erupted at the conclusion of book 7. His undying love for Lily, but his inclination to join the death eaters. None of her characters are pure heroes. Making Dumbledore homosexual could be her attempt at creating another imperfect character.

And even if she did it to get people to accept homosexuality, it still doesn’t matter. We don’t have to accept it, and we can use it to show people how we need to love ALL people, no matter their sexual preference. Love means showing them truth though. And praying for them.

 

[TMC]

Oh how I wish that this were the case. But you honestly don’t believe that there is a culture war going on? Wow.

No, I don’t. At least not the way most people use the term. There have always been people who believed one thing, and others that believed another. Each side advocates for its position. That is no more true today than on any other day in human history.

Most people that refer to “culture wars” are talking about some kind of organized, pernicious attempt to stamp out Christianity. That just doesn’t exist. There is some discriminaton against Christians out there, but not a lot. There are people that have different views on specific moral issues, like birth control, homosexuality, prayer in school. To say that these people are engaged in a culture war aimed at stamping out Christianity is simply wrong. Do you think that Rowlings made this comment at the direction of some atheistic or Satanic overlord as part of their scheme to twist the minds of American school children? If you do you should write books of your own, you have a good imagination.

If you think our culture is not heavily influenced by Christianty, and probably more so today than 50 years ago, talk to a Sikh or Hindu living in America and see if he agrees with you.

Sorry to rant so far off topic, but obviously I have some strong opinions here.

 

[Delphinus85]

I hopes she writes either a sequel or a prequel of both.

She has said there will be no more books relating to the Harry Potter storyline. It’s over. Although there are rumours of sort of an encyclopedia or a history. Personally, I hope she explains how the heck a woman like Lily fell for a creepy like James. SOMETHING big had to happen, and he would have had to change a lot!

 

[Joe_5859]

Incidentally, I found the context of the “promote tolerance/question authority” statements. It’s in reference to the Death Eaters as a parallel of the Nazis:

the-leaky-cauldron.org/2007/10/20/j-k-rowling-at-carnegie-hall-reveals-dumbledore-is-gay-neville-marries-hannah-abbott-and-scores-more

Q: Many of us older readers have noticed over the years similarities between the Death Eaters tactics and the Nazis from the 30s and 40s. Did you use that historical era as a model for Voldemort’s reign and what were the lessons that you hope to impart to the next generation?

It was conscious. I think that if you’re, I think most of us if you were asked to name a very evil regime we would think Nazi Germany. There were parallels in the ideology. I wanted Harry to leave our world and find exactly the same problems in the wizarding world. So you have the intent to impose a hierarchy, you have bigotry, and this notion of purity, which is this great fallacy, but it crops up all over the world. People like to think themselves superior and that if they can pride themselves in nothing else they can pride themselves on perceived purity. So yeah that follows a parallel. It wasn’t really exclusively that. I think you can see in the Ministry even before it’s taken over, there are parallels to regimes we all know and love. [Laughter and applause.] So you ask what lessons, I suppose. The Potter books in general are a prolonged argument for tolerance, a prolonged plea for an end to bigotry, and I think it’s one of the reasons that some people don’t like the books, but I think that’s it’s a very healthy message to pass on to younger people that you should question authority and you should not assume that the establishment or the press tells you all of the truth.

 

[koryp]

To say that these people are engaged in a culture war aimed at stamping out Christianity is simply wrong. Do you think that Rowlings made this comment at the direction of some atheistic or Satanic overlord as part of their scheme to twist the minds of American school children?

Yikes… I hope not! I suppose “culture war” could be pretty loaded if it implies J K is meeting dark overlords in secret castles late at night… but certainly you agree that there is spiritual warfare, no? How do you suppose this plays out in our culture. Does not God use His people for good? Can the prince of lies not tempt people to counter our Lord? And, though conflict has existed throughout human history, never before has humanity had the ability of instant, global communication. Whoever controls the communication will win the battles… Fortunately, we already know who will win the war!

• Kory

 

[SMHW]

So if it’s not the book why are you concerned about it?

I think the concern comes from the fact that many children do not limit their Harry Potter intake to books, movies, and sanctioned memorabilia. Many children are fans of and follow news about J. K. Rowling. They visit the various official and non-official Harry Potter websites, message boards, and fan fiction sites.

Even if parents restrict their children’s access to the internet and the media reports, the children most likely associate and speak with young fans who do not have such restrictions.

 

[CatholicSam]

No, I don’t. At least not the way most people use the term. There have always been people who believed one thing, and others that believed another. Each side advocates for its position. That is no more true today than on any other day in human history.

Most people that refer to “culture wars” are talking about some kind of organized, pernicious attempt to stamp out Christianity. That just doesn’t exist. There is some discriminaton against Christians out there, but not a lot. There are people that have different views on specific moral issues, like birth control, homosexuality, prayer in school. To say that these people are engaged in a culture war aimed at stamping out Christianity is simply wrong. Do you think that Rowlings made this comment at the direction of some atheistic or Satanic overlord as part of their scheme to twist the minds of American school children? If you do you should write books of your own, you have a good imagination.

If you think our culture is not heavily influenced by Christianty, and probably more so today than 50 years ago, talk to a Sikh or Hindu living in America and see if he agrees with you.

Sorry to rant so far off topic, but obviously I have some strong opinions here.

No, we’re not fighting human beings. We are in a spiritual battle and yes, this statement by Rowling was no doubt rejoiced upon by satan. But regardless of what you believe, it is the trend to denigrate the teachings of the Catholic Church. The trendy thing is to offend Christians and push the legalization and normalization of perverted behaviors. Catholic values are severely under attack in our society and Rowlings just jumped on the band wagon.

 

[estesbob]

How old are your daughters, Bob?

27 and 32 ( although there are still days when they ask six and seven) I was afraid you were going to ask that .

I cannot believe I am arguing about an offhand comment about a fictional character by the author of the books the fictional character appears in. ! Perhaps Dumbledore knew a *reversi orientatus *spelled that fixed everything.Hopefully JK Rowling will clear it up for us.

 

[koryp]

Perhaps Dumbledore knew a *reversi orientatus *spelled that fixed everything.Hopefully JK Rowling will clear it up for us.

That’d be nice… or even the more generic repello peccatus! I could use that a lot!

• Kory