Jack T. Chick:Anti Catholicism at it's worst

[Imprimartin]

Xenos:

Martin,

See #94 above. The poster there understood what meant.

Xenos,
I checked #94 and it basically says (in different words) what ought to be, which is what I originally understood you to say. It also says what happens when catholics don’t do what they ought to do. What that post doesn’t say is: Is this the way you determine what the true church is. You pre-supposed that (while making another point) back on Post #17 when you said:

Xenos:

Look through these forums. You will see so much anger, hatred, and pride in the belief that you are the “only” true Church that it should make you cry. That of course, would depend on whether or not you really ARE the only true Church.

Where is your love for others? Where is your concern for Evangelicals? Where is your concern for JW’s, rather than just trying to keep them from unsuspecting Catholics? Evangelicals have innumerable ministries that attempt to reach these people for Christ. Where is YOUR concern for them? If there is anything there, More love for such people than we see here should be expected.

The point I’m trying to get at how you define what is the “true church”. Since you most likely dispute the RCC being the “true” church, there must be some kind of test or analysis you perform.

If you say that the “true” church has members who “act christian”, I would say that all churches have people like that. Maybe you mean, that in order to qualify as the “true church”, it MUST have all or maybe a majority(?) of people who show love for other non-catholics (as well as fellow catholics).

I’m just trying to get at the definite link you’ve made between the “true” church and the acts of it’s members. What is the test?

Maybe we should start another thread for this…:ehh:

Martin

 

[shannin]

Church Militant:

Look at this pack of misdirected lies.
chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp

My first thought was, "I could ask the very same question about this guy.

That guy is such a sick, evil coward. I’d like to see him in a religious debate with Father Mitch or Father Corapi on EWTN.

Instead of preaching love, this man and others like him devote their lives to preach hatred and lies about the Church and the really sad thing is that they have many followers.

Blessings,
Shannin

 

[shannin]

Xenos,
What do you expect to find in these forums? These forums are Catholic Answers. As far as seeing anger and hatred here, I just don’t see it.

I’ve been personally verbally attacked for being Catholic since third grade when I was told that Catholics believe in idols. The Church and Holy Father have been called the whore of Babylon, the antiChrist, etc.

I think you’re a little confused about just who displays the most anger and hatred towards other faiths. It’s NOT the Catholics here. Furthermore, I have Catholic family and friends and I never hear them criticize other faiths. Most of the time we’re defending our own Catholic faiths against the attacks of others.

I love being Catholic and yes, I do feel that it is the one true Church, instituted by Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church satisfies all of my spiritual needs and I will defend the Church whenever I have to but I don’t hate any other religion.

Many blessings,
Shannin

 

[Church_Militant]

losav:

Hi Xenos,

Sorry if you will find my English not so good because English is not my mother tongue.

And once you’ll be a catholic yourself then you will know how it feels when people start telling you that your faith is ‘satanic’ and ‘pagan.’

I praise my brothers and sisters here who are very good in defending our faith and I pray for you…

-losav

Thank you for this very good post. Your English seems to be better than mine
Thanks for the compliments on behalf of all of us. Xenos is okay…he just doesn’t realize what a drag it is to get hassled for being Catholic, because it doesn’t happen to him.

 

[Katholikos]

Katholikos:

The word translated as “church” in the NT is ekklesia. This is a Greek word meaning “assembly.” In ancient Greek society, it was an assembly called out by the town crier that met for legislative or other purposes. This was the closest word in Greek available to the sacred writers of the NT to translate the Hebrew word “kahal,” or religious assembly.

Short definition: The Church is the People of God, united under St. Peter and his successors, assembled together in one body and sharing one faith – the Faith of the Apostles.

I’ll answer your request for more info on #4 (from post #72) in a separate post early tomorrow morning.

Thank you for your questions.

Peace, Jay

Hi, Xenos - I’ve started another thread to answer your other Q. You asked me go to into more detail about my item #4 of my post #72. I tried to post the information on the Scripture forum, but couldn’t. There seem to be problems with that forum (or with me and my computer ).

Your question was about this statement: “[4] that the Church pre-dates the New Testament and is its author (see all the writings of the NT and the Encyclopedia of Early Christianity).”

I posted a new thread on this forum called “Did the Catholic Church write the NT?” I began by posting the names of all the “books” of the NT, the authors’ names, and to whom the writings were addressed.

Hope I’ll see you there.

JMJ Jay

 

[Xenos]

losav:

Hi Xenos,

Sorry if you will find my English not so good because English is not my mother tongue.

Since you are non-Catholic, I would like to suggest you to quit from this thread and try to ask for proper guidance by joining threads which suits your quest for truth…only if you are really searching for it. Or still I would suggest you to ask the help of our apologists, they will surely assist you to the truth you are “searching” for… And once you’ll be a catholic yourself then you will know how it feels when people start telling you that your faith is ‘satanic’ and ‘pagan.’

I praise my brothers and sisters here who are very good in defending our faith and I pray for you…

-losav

I appreciate your post, losav. But to explain my point, you would have to reread everything in this thread. Even then, you might not understand.

It gets down to what the purpose of apologetics is supposed to be.

For a moment, put yourself in the position of any non-catholic reading through this. Where is the basis in true apologetics or in reason to use the same methods against others that you find offensive? Don’t you think I am owed the same courtesy that you expect of me?

If you take the time to read all of this stuff (and heaven knows why you would want to) you will see that no one has defended the gentleman refered to in the first post. You will see that people have claimed people have said something which was clearly never stated.

If the purpose is to tear into the author of the funny little books, and claim that all Evangelicals are just like him, fine. Enjoy yourselves. It seemed to me everyone could learn a little bit by some polite discussion. Beleive it or not, form my perspective I have tried to be polite.

As to the apologists, I have written concerns about their purpose as well.

Then, on the other hand, if this keeps up, maybe we will all need some prosac.

BTW, your English is pretty good!

Blessings to you,

 

[Xenos]

Katholikos:

The word translated as “church” in the NT is ekklesia. This is a Greek word meaning “assembly.” In ancient Greek society, it was an assembly called out by the town crier that met for legislative or other purposes. This was the closest word in Greek available to the sacred writers of the NT to translate the Hebrew word “kahal,” or religious assembly.

Short definition: The Church is the People of God, united under St. Peter and his successors, assembled together in one body and sharing one faith – the Faith of the Apostles.

I’ll answer your request for more info on #4 (from post #72) in a separate post early tomorrow morning.

Thank you for your questions.

Peace, Jay

Jay,

Thank you

 

[Xenos]

Imprimartin:

Xenos,
I checked #94 and it basically says (in different words) what ought to be, which is what I originally understood you to say. It also says what happens when catholics don’t do what they ought to do. What that post doesn’t say is: Is this the way you determine what the true church is. You pre-supposed that (while making another point) back on Post #17 when you said:
The point I’m trying to get at how you define what is the “true church”. Since you most likely dispute the RCC being the “true” church, there must be some kind of test or analysis you perform.

If you say that the “true” church has members who “act christian”, I would say that all churches have people like that. Maybe you mean, that in order to qualify as the “true church”, it MUST have all or maybe a majority(?) of people who show love for other non-catholics (as well as fellow catholics).

I’m just trying to get at the definite link you’ve made between the “true” church and the acts of it’s members. What is the test?

Maybe we should start another thread for this…:ehh:

Martin

Martin,

I think that the author to #94 understood my point.

 

[Xenos]

shannin:

Xenos,
What do you expect to find in these forums? These forums are Catholic Answers. As far as seeing anger and hatred here, I just don’t see it.

I’ve been personally verbally attacked for being Catholic since third grade when I was told that Catholics believe in idols. The Church and Holy Father have been called the whore of Babylon, the antiChrist, etc.

I think you’re a little confused about just who displays the most anger and hatred towards other faiths. It’s NOT the Catholics here. Furthermore, I have Catholic family and friends and I never hear them criticize other faiths. Most of the time we’re defending our own Catholic faiths against the attacks of others.

I love being Catholic and yes, I do feel that it is the one true Church, instituted by Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church satisfies all of my spiritual needs and I will defend the Church whenever I have to but I don’t hate any other religion.

Many blessings,
Shannin

Shannin,

that is fine. But if we are God’s church, shouldn’t the question be about who is showing the most love, not the most hate? It is too bad that you don’t see the hate that I was refering to; because I hear it so loud i have to concentrate to understand what others are saying

. If there is going to be communication, we have to get through that so we can discuss things.

Blessings,

 

[Xenos]

Katholikos:

Hi, Xenos - I’ve started another thread to answer your other Q. You asked me go to into more detail about my item #4 of my post #72. I tried to post the information on the Scripture forum, but couldn’t. There seem to be problems with that forum (or with me and my computer ).

Your question was about this statement: “[4] that the Church pre-dates the New Testament and is its author (see all the writings of the NT and the Encyclopedia of Early Christianity).”

I posted a new thread on this forum called “Did the Catholic Church write the NT?” I began by posting the names of all the “books” of the NT, the authors’ names, and to whom the writings were addressed.

Hope I’ll see you there.

JMJ Jay

Jay,

Thanks. I’l get there on Thurday night.

 

[Xenos]

Church Militant:

Thank you for this very good post. Your English seems to be better than mine
Thanks for the compliments on behalf of all of us. Xenos is okay…he just doesn’t realize what a drag it is to get hassled for being Catholic, because it doesn’t happen to him.

Thank you, Militant.

I think I’ll go make some sweet tea.

 

[Mfaustina1]

Xenos-

God bless you for your comments. But please understand that you are on a site for Catholics and we are just as likely to forget our “manners” as non-Catholics. For what it’s worth, when I read your comments This is my thought… :clapping:

C’mon folks, we’ve got to be able to take a little criticism when it’s deserved. No :crying: lest we become the Pharisees we ALL don’t want to be like. - God bless! - Mfaustina1

With so many people on both sides still getting offended with each other, it is no wonder that Christendom is still divided. Just some food for thought!

 

[Xenos]

Mfaustina1:

Xenos-

God bless you for your comments. But please understand that you are on a site for Catholics and we are just as likely to forget our “manners” as non-Catholics. For what it’s worth, when I read your comments This is my thought… :clapping:

C’mon folks, we’ve got to be able to take a little criticism when it’s deserved. No :crying: lest we become the Pharisees we ALL don’t want to be like. - God bless! - Mfaustina1

With so many people on both sides still getting offended with each other, it is no wonder that Christendom is still divided. Just some food for thought!

I wish I had said that…

 

[LisaH]

I’m new to this forum, but based on what I’ve read today I think Xenos is being a little sensitive.

People aren’t trying to be impolite or attack him - they are just expressing their views forcefully. If he doesn’t like it, then he can go to another forum on another website.

Otherwise, don’t complain.

 

[losav]

Xenos:

I appreciate your post, losav. But to explain my point, you would have to reread everything in this thread. Even then, you might not understand.

It gets down to what the purpose of apologetics is supposed to be.

For a moment, put yourself in the position of any non-catholic reading through this. Where is the basis in true apologetics or in reason to use the same methods against others that you find offensive? Don’t you think I am owed the same courtesy that you expect of me?

If you take the time to read all of this stuff (and heaven knows why you would want to) you will see that no one has defended the gentleman refered to in the first post. You will see that people have claimed people have said something which was clearly never stated.

If the purpose is to tear into the author of the funny little books, and claim that all Evangelicals are just like him, fine. Enjoy yourselves. It seemed to me everyone could learn a little bit by some polite discussion. Beleive it or not, form my perspective I have tried to be polite.

As to the apologists, I have written concerns about their purpose as well.

Then, on the other hand, if this keeps up, maybe we will all need some prosac.

BTW, your English is pretty good!

Blessings to you,

Hi there Xenos, thanks for the attention you’ve given although I know I said nothing at all. Although I find it very difficult to catch up with some of the words here but still I have to get on reading this thread over and over again to get the things one wants to say.

I do agree with you that being an apologetic, one should be courteous and respectful but you see, most of us here aren’t apologetics (by profession) but simply and “ordinary” Catholics who are trying to defend our faith… this is the very foundation of our belief and we would defend it against those who wants to shake it down (although it will never be as Christ promised). We are like cubs who are practicing for future spiritual battle (not necessarily with physical destruction of the body). As we do this, we learn much until we would be trained to be true apologetics and eventually imbibe in us the truest sense of Catholic apologetics like Karl Keating and the rest.

Please bear with everything that comes here for discussion and look broader on what our Church can do like the late Mother Teresa of Calcuta and the saints, they are our true witnesses-- we are still on the painful process to be witnesses too.

God bless… and thanks for appreciating my English.

-losav

 

[Church_Militant]

LisaH:

I’m new to this forum, but based on what I’ve read today I think Xenos is being a little sensitive.

People aren’t trying to be impolite or attack him - they are just expressing their views forcefully. If he doesn’t like it, then he can go to another forum on another website.
Otherwise, don’t complain.

Pretty much my opinion too. Ya gotta be fairly thick skinned to even go in a forum. I think we are pretty tolerant on here and far more so than the Non-catholic sites that I’ve experienced, where they suspend/band you for even expressing a catholic opinion. I appreciate the freedonm of discussion in this forum and will continue to express truth as clearly and forcefully as I know how. Truth is no one ever says “boo” to these preachers who get on the tube or the net (or their happy little tracts) and insult Catholics and ignorantly deride what the Church teaches. Most don’t really have a vague clue what they’re talking about. I asked a Non-Catholic guy I knew who was giving me a hard time about being Catholic (after seeing one of Kent Hovind’s “Creation Science” videos,) "How come this guy can’t just get up in his pulpit and preach his message without ripping on the Catholic Church? Catholic priests don’t do that at Mass (badmouth other religions). I then went on to point out to him that I’d seen one of Hovind’s videos and have no respect for him since he alleged that Catholics believe that we become God based on a passage of the CCC taken TOTALLY out of context. Worse still I noticed that he footnoted the whole statement as having been taken from Chick Publications. This preacher is supposed to be some kind of doctor of something and yet obviously didn’t do his own research or check his sources. The guy laid off me after that.

BTW Welcome LisaH! Merry and blessed Chritmas to you and all here!

 

[Imprimartin]

Xenos:

Martin,

I think that the author to #94 understood my point.

Xenos,
I also understood your point (at least I think I did). In fact, I even re-said your point to prove that I understood your point. Now that I understand it, I’m trying to discuss the premises of that point.

I’ll check out that new thread that Catholikos (author of Post #94) set up so that maybe it will discuss the premises a little more. He did mention what the catholic test is to determine the true church.

Hope to see you there,
Martin

 

[Katholikos]

Xenos:

Shannin,

that is fine. But if we are God’s church, shouldn’t the question be about who is showing the most love, not the most hate? It is too bad that you don’t see the hate that I was refering to; because I hear it so loud i have to concentrate to understand what others are saying–

. If there is going to be communication, we have to get through that so we can discuss things.

Xenos, Christ founded only one Church for the salvation of the world, and He expects His followers to believe what that Church teaches, to belong to it, and to receive the gifts He gave us through His Church (the Sacraments).

Christ told his Apostles to teach “whatsoever I have commanded you.” For three years, He taught them what he wanted them to teach others. Not all of it was written down, as St. John says plainly – twice – in his Gospel. He did not tell the Apostles to “write what I have commanded you.” Very few of the Apostles wrote a word, but they taught the Faith and founded local churches all over the then known world. Most of the NT was written by St. Paul, who was not one of the Twelve, and by disciples of the Apostles.

The Catholic Church reveres the Bible – she was the Agent of the Holy Spirit in writing the NT and compiling the Bible, and she cherishes every word. The Church copied it by hand – carefully, laboriously, painfully, by candlelight – for fifteen centuries, until the printing press was invented.

The Apostles were the leaders and the teachers of the first Church. The first church was the Catholic Church. Ergo, Christ expects us all to believe what the Catholic Church teaches and to belong to it. The Church teaches what God revealed though Christ to the Apostles and from the Apostles directly to the Church’s ears. The Catholic Church is not based on the NT – rather, the NT reflects what the Church was teaching at the time she wrote it. The Catholic Church would teach exactly the same doctrines even if there were no NT – the Church teaches what the Apostles taught…

This is all we have said to you. Please don’t take offense at the Truth. You interpret the Truth (i.e., our belief that all the conflicting and competing non-Catholic, Bible-based churches are not equally true) as “hate.”

I hope you come to an understanding of this. There has been no animosity expressed toward you or your beliefs at Catholic Answers – but we must tell the Truth – Truth matters. We are not prisoners of our own biblical interpretation. As Jesus promised, the Truth has set us free.

Peace be with you,

JMJ Jay

 

[Joseph_Romero]

This thread has wandered and is now closed.

God Bless,