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Ani_Ibi
Guest
Ah! The Early Church heard Jesus speaking. :coffeeread: And what does this tell you?
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kaycee
Guest
Since you or I dont have Jesus or God talking directly to us in conversation, my use of “The Word of God” in practice means what we do have, Scripture.
Joh 14:9 - Jesus answered: "Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?You have now become eminently quotable.
(But, whoah! Hold up thar, Ani Ibi! Ask him what he means by ‘incarnate’: where is Jesus’s incarnation?)
OK, kaycee, where is Jesus’s incarnation?
Certainly you would agree there are countless scriptures that testify to this fact.
And?
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kaycee
Guest
That Jesus spoke to the disciples and they heard him?
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
See? See, kaycee? No matter how many times I post that link to the Word of God being Jesus Himself you find some way to fall back on the notion that the Word of God is Scripture.
Perhaps your assumption is that the only way we have of knowing Jesus is through Scripture? Think about this. Is this not true?
What fact are you talking about?Joh 14:9 - Jesus answered: "Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Certainly you would agree there are countless scriptures that testify to this fact.
My DRC link is down so I am using NAB Jn 14:
Jesus is a Person. Not a book. Perhaps your assumption is that the only way we have of knowing Jesus is through Scripture? Think about this. Is this not true? Yes or no please. Thank you.
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Jerry-Jet
Guest
Jesus breathed on the dsiciples Kaycee and gave them the power to forgive and retain sin–why don’t you recognize the Word of God’s breath?
Do you worship the written scriptures more than you worship Jesus?
If you believe the written scriptures come from the breath of God–why don’t you believe them when they say that jesus breathed on the disciples and gave them the power to forgive and retain sin?
By not believing they were given this power you not only not believe in the written scriptures–you don’t believe Jesus’ words in them–and you don’t believe in the breath of Jesus!
Do you worship the written scriptures more than you worship Jesus?
If you believe the written scriptures come from the breath of God–why don’t you believe them when they say that jesus breathed on the disciples and gave them the power to forgive and retain sin?
By not believing they were given this power you not only not believe in the written scriptures–you don’t believe Jesus’ words in them–and you don’t believe in the breath of Jesus!
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
Ani Ibi:
kaycee:
Look at what you posted again. Then tell me what your post tells you about the relationship of the Early Church to knowing.
That’s all it tells you? :ehh: :dts:That Jesus spoke to the disciples and they heard him?
Look at what you posted again. Then tell me what your post tells you about the relationship of the Early Church to knowing.
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Ani_Ibi
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kaycee
Guest
It might be easier if You tell me what you think Scripture IS?
Not the only way, but the only infallible way.
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kaycee
Guest
That is certainly what the preaching of the Gospel does. It is not some power given to men.
Ahhh, no. It is God’s revelation to us.
People who accept the Gospel are those whose sins are forgiven. The power to forgive sins is given to the church in the Great Commission.
I believe in the Great Commission.
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Bigwill
Guest
I’ll have to respectfully disagree there. Kaycee doesn’t believe that the Bible is the Word of God. She believes that the Bible is the WORDS of God.
It saddens me that many Protestant Christians, while falsely accusing Catholics of Mariolatry, commit Bibliolatry themselves. However, it is understandable. Whereas we are able to receive our Lord, body, blood, soul, and divinity (the Word of God), daily, in the most holy Eucharist, these Protestants have no such blessed opportunity. Accordingly, they have, in my opinion, replaced the Eucharist (the Word of God) with the Bible. The latria that was and is appropriately given to the Eucharist has been transferred inappropriately, and in the form of idolatry, to the Bible.
The Bible (including those books that the Protestants deleted from their Bibles without any authority to do so) is inspired and inerrant. It contains the Word of God. It should be read and studied daily. But it should not be made out to be more than it is.
“Old Testament?”
“Fulfilled by Jesus?”
where do you get that stuff? Isn’t that from the Bible itself? I want to know how you KNOW that the Bible has any authority whatsoever.
So again, why should we even believe you when you say that the Bible is God’s word? Why should I accept those 66 books of the Bible and no other?
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Jerry-Jet
Guest
And what does forgiving and retaing sin have to do with preaching?
I don’t hear Jesus saying anything about preaching when he breathes on the disciples.
Congraagulations Protestants–the Pharisees were incensed that jesus forgave sin.
Protestants Lie about Jesus’ own words and breath and say that He can’t give that power and authority to the disciples!
Are they bigger than Jesus?
I guess so when it doesn’t fit their pick and choose charade that they shamlessly pose as Sola Scriptura.
If Jesus wanted everyone in the curch to be able to forgive and retain sin He would have breathed on ALL the church.
He didn’t!
He also didn’t appoint Christ denying Jews in 90AD to tell His church what the books of the bible were.
See Satan not only wants people to think that the disciples did not have authority or that Peter did not have authority–he wants people to think that the Jews who didn’t even believe in Jesus had authority and could take out books that the christians had been using ever since the time of Jesus!
So not only was the early church wrong according to Protestants–the Jews were right and authoratative in 90AD when the apostle John was still alive!
You would think that if this was so manifestly evident that there would have been many Protestants with similiar views back then.
Why is it that we never have a record of them?
But the bottom line is if you believe the Protestants you don’t even believe Christ’s own words to Only the disciples and you also believe that He was referring to the church when he doesn’t even mention the word church!
If God Breathed means inserting your own words for Jesus’ words and if it means that Jesus breathing on the disicples doesn’t mean what HE says about it–then why have any part with it?
I don’t hear Jesus saying anything about preaching when he breathes on the disciples.
Congraagulations Protestants–the Pharisees were incensed that jesus forgave sin.
Protestants Lie about Jesus’ own words and breath and say that He can’t give that power and authority to the disciples!
Are they bigger than Jesus?
I guess so when it doesn’t fit their pick and choose charade that they shamlessly pose as Sola Scriptura.
If Jesus wanted everyone in the curch to be able to forgive and retain sin He would have breathed on ALL the church.
He didn’t!
He also didn’t appoint Christ denying Jews in 90AD to tell His church what the books of the bible were.
See Satan not only wants people to think that the disciples did not have authority or that Peter did not have authority–he wants people to think that the Jews who didn’t even believe in Jesus had authority and could take out books that the christians had been using ever since the time of Jesus!
So not only was the early church wrong according to Protestants–the Jews were right and authoratative in 90AD when the apostle John was still alive!
You would think that if this was so manifestly evident that there would have been many Protestants with similiar views back then.
Why is it that we never have a record of them?
But the bottom line is if you believe the Protestants you don’t even believe Christ’s own words to Only the disciples and you also believe that He was referring to the church when he doesn’t even mention the word church!
If God Breathed means inserting your own words for Jesus’ words and if it means that Jesus breathing on the disicples doesn’t mean what HE says about it–then why have any part with it?
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
Whew, awesomely argued, Mr Jet! You rock my socks! :yup:
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savedsinner
Guest
The Canon of the New Testament was set some 300 years after the death of the last Apostle. How could the early church know which books were the ones written by the Apostles whom heard Jesus speaking?
There were books in circulation at the time which were accepted by some of the churches, and who were more inspiring than, lets say the book of Philemon, which were not included in the canon.
Was their decision to set the canon guided by the Holy Spirit, or do we have books in the canon of the New Testament which are not the inspired word of God?
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