jehovah witnesses

[Rolltide]

Now, a Question to all you good Catholics: Tell me:

WHAT ARE THE IDENTIFYING MARKS OF TRUE CHRISTAINITY?

Please reply.

The four marks of Christ’s Church are

ONE
The unity of Christ’s Church refers to the need for the Church to be undivided. There are to be no divisions among the members of the Church. For the Church to be one with Christ it must first maintain unity with itself. This aspect stems from Christ’s remarks to the same point:“I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.”(John 10:16) Although the Catholic Church is the only Church with full institutional and organizational unity, the various Protestant sects claim belief in an invisible, spiritual union. The Eastern Orthodox churches, while maintaining, for the most part, doctrinal unity, are nevertheless institutionally divided.
**
HOLY**
The sanctity of Christ’s Church is derived from the fact that it is Christ’s Church. “And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,” Matthew 16:18 (NAB) [1] Since the Church was established by Christ, it is said to be holy. This does not mean that the members of the Church are free from sin, neither than that the institution of the Church cannot sin. However Christ loves, supports and guides the Church. The word “holy” connotes the idea that it is set apart for a special purpose by and for God. In the case of the Church, its purpose is to be the worldly vehicle through which spiritual grace is delivered – the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. (Matthew 16:19)

**
CATHOLIC (as in “universal”)**
The universality of Christ’s Church establishes the Church as being open to all: all classes, both sexes, all nationalities. The Church maintains that Christ refuses no one from Grace; therefore, the Church cannot refuse anyone as long as they accept Christ’s teachings and Church. "Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” (Matthew 28:18-20)

The catholicity of the Church also refers to the fact that the Church is the same everywhere, in every time. In every land, with every people, the Church maintains the same rituals and beliefs.

and APOSTOLIC
The Church is apostolic, handed down from Christ through the Apostles to the bishops, to mankind. The Church must have come directly from Christ and can be traced back through history to show that those who lead the Church were commissioned to do so by the Apostles, who were in turn commissioned by Christ. “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the holy ones and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone.” (Ephesians 2:19-20)

 

[Bill_Pick]

My mate excaliber!

Intelligent question. Who did Jesus give this command to?
Jesus preached to the Jews. But most of them rejected him. So he said: “The kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation producing its fruits.” (Matthew 21:43.)

Who would that be?
Get your Bibles and check out Acts 1:8. Jesus says: “…you will be witnesses of me… to the most distant parts of the earth.”
Who was he talking to? Read the verses leading up to it.
He gave the command to preach to his faithful followers. The “Christians.”
History shows they went to work. Soon Christian congregations were springing up everywhere despite fierce, often violent opposition.
This was the nation the Kingdom would be entrusted to. Faithful Christians!

But in Matthew 24:14 Jesus showed the preaching work would be done again at the end of the age. (Read from verse 3 to get the context)
So apart from the first century there would be another, greater preaching of God’s Kingdom!

Now, please get a Bible and read what our Lord Jesus said in Matthew 13:24-30. (Illustration of Wheat and weeds.)
Confusing? His disciples thought so, so they went up to him afterwards and asked what it meant.
So now read Matthew 13:36-43 for Jesus explanation.

Therefore, the Christian church would be infiltrated by Satan! He would plant weeds. (false Christians!).
Did Jesus prophecy come true? Of course. In Acts 20:29 Paul called them “oppressive wolves” that would creep in after he was gone.
History shows that soon different factions of “Christians” were popping up with different ideas. That is what the councils of the Catholic Church were trying to sort out. “Which faction has the truth?”
By the 15th century the protestants broke away and heaps of “Christian” churches were formed.

By the 20th century there were thousands of Relgions, sects and cults that claimed to be “Christian.” Which were the real ones?

The stage was set for the end of Jesus prophecy. Remember: In Matthew 13:37-43 Jesus said at the end of the age (the same time the major preaching work would be done - matthew 24:14) it would become clear who were the True Christians and therefore who Jesus would use to do the preaching work. Exciting stuff!

Now, a Question to all you good Catholics: Tell me:

WHAT ARE THE IDENTIFYING MARKS OF TRUE CHRISTAINITY?

Please reply.

Within Christianity there are very few essential doctrines that define what it means to be a Christian. These essential doctrines are,
Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1,14; 8:24; Col. 2:9; 1 John 4:1-4).
Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 15:14).
Salvation is by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:1-2; 5:1-4).
The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:8-9).
There is only one God (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8).
God exists as a Trinity of persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (See Trinity).
Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary (nature of incarnation)

 

[Rolltide]

Alternatively, you can also go with the tenants laid out in the Nicene Creed. This council was set up to fight the many heresies that were floating around, such as Gnosticism and Arianism. It was meant to answer the question “What exactly DOES constitute a Christian?” once and for all. Although not every Christian denomination today utilizes the Nicene Creed, many do, and most of the rest would still agree with the basic truths contained within it. Even between the differing beliefs of Catholics, the Orthodox, and Protestants, we generally have that much in common.

 

[excaliber]

Regardless
I just read all your scriptures.
now elaborate a bit.

Why do you think there was going to be two DIFFERENT preaching works?

You say Jesus commands his followers to preach the Gospel…
THEN THEY DO ALL THAT WORK FOR NOTHING!!! Because you say God is going to have a second DIFFERENT preaching work done by a small group that will preach something different.

You are saying Christ set up two churches to preach different things.

Now lets talk about this second group that has self proclaimed that
they were chosen by God.
Why would God Chose them to preach to the nations when they can’t get there own theology correct?

You think that in 1914 God looked at all the churches and chose the most confused one!!!

Because if he picked them in 1914
they are not still chosen because they changed the theology that you think God chose.

Come on…give us something good. Build a 2000 year bridge from Christ to C.T. Russel.
OOPS I mean build the bridge to
Judge Rutherford because Russels whole thyology had to be changed.

You also have to go from some oppressive wolves to the colapse of an entire global church.That will be hard because the bible dosent say that.

 

[Deconi]

The four marks of Christ’s Church are

ONE
The unity of Christ’s Church refers to the need for the Church to be undivided. There are to be no divisions among the members of the Church. For the Church to be one with Christ it must first maintain unity with itself. This aspect stems from Christ’s remarks to the same point:“I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.”(John 10:16) Although the Catholic Church is the only Church with full institutional and organizational unity, the various Protestant sects claim belief in an invisible, spiritual union. The Eastern Orthodox churches, while maintaining, for the most part, doctrinal unity, are nevertheless institutionally divided.
**
HOLY**
The sanctity of Christ’s Church is derived from the fact that it is Christ’s Church. “And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,” Matthew 16:18 (NAB) [1] Since the Church was established by Christ, it is said to be holy. This does not mean that the members of the Church are free from sin, neither than that the institution of the Church cannot sin. However Christ loves, supports and guides the Church. The word “holy” connotes the idea that it is set apart for a special purpose by and for God. In the case of the Church, its purpose is to be the worldly vehicle through which spiritual grace is delivered – the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. (Matthew 16:19)

**
CATHOLIC (as in “universal”)**
The universality of Christ’s Church establishes the Church as being open to all: all classes, both sexes, all nationalities. The Church maintains that Christ refuses no one from Grace; therefore, the Church cannot refuse anyone as long as they accept Christ’s teachings and Church. "Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” (Matthew 28:18-20)

The catholicity of the Church also refers to the fact that the Church is the same everywhere, in every time. In every land, with every people, the Church maintains the same rituals and beliefs.

and APOSTOLIC
The Church is apostolic, handed down from Christ through the Apostles to the bishops, to mankind. The Church must have come directly from Christ and can be traced back through history to show that those who lead the Church were commissioned to do so by the Apostles, who were in turn commissioned by Christ. “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the holy ones and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone.” (Ephesians 2:19-20)

Nice work, Prof. Succinct without the complexities of language you obviously command! I was going to add the Creed also…but you’ve done it.

Kiwi, before you get too ‘lost’ in the various interpretations of Scripture snippets, have another look at the ‘list of Popes’ presented earlier. Note several things;
Peter is the first Pope, after Christ instituted The Church upon his person and faith in Peter’s declaration of Who Christ Is!

Note, the Popes lineage continues from Christ, to Peter, and on from there. Ben16 is the latest and current one, and THAT LINE is unbroken!

Understand also that ‘pope’ is not in Scriptures! It is a title given to the position BY HIS FELLOW BISHOPS throughout history! Peter was ‘just’ the Bishop of Rome, as Benedict is now! All other bishops are EQUAL with him, accept the one in Rome carries the mantle that Christ gave to Peter; to LEAD HIS CHURCH!

Note also that the books of Scriptures were decided during that lineage. That will tell you WHICH CHURCH held the Councils that decided which books were to be canonized, and which were heretical or in error! There were a lot of them floating around at the time…including the gospels of Judas, Thomas, Mary, etc.

The word Catholic, is also not in Scriptures!..then again, neither is any of the denominations like JWs. ‘Catholic’ is a term the Bishop of Antioch called The Church he belonged to, because although he was Bishop elsewhere, he FOLLOWED the guidance of The Seat of Peter (Rome) because he understood what Christ did to Peter.

You see, the pedigree of The Church is NOT ONLY FOUND IN SCRIPTURES, but through physical, tangible evidence that can traced back to Her Origin!

 

[Deconi]

cont’d…

This does not mean that Catholics are free from sin. We claim our history with humility. Some of the worst human beings in ANY period of history have been Catholics. But the balance, if I have to look for one, is the MULTITUDE of saints and saintly individuals who have aided others, profess the Gospel and continue to shape human existence!

I noted earlier that you cite a small group of JW ‘fighting against the odds’ to exist, even though they are ridiculed and hated by their surroundings! Don’t get too caught up in emotions that you may fail to see…that is precisely what the Apostles and Early Fathers of The Catholic Church came through to deliver what we have. No JW was ever hung upside down on a cross!..let alone stoned to death.

In every period, The Catholic Church is the most ‘hated’ and under attack; even by Her own children in splintered denominations! Only Divine protection could have gotten Her this far; 2000years of it! Some even claim the same protection, even though they’ve existed no more than a couple of centuries.

Lastly, The Church commenced from Christ in 32 - 33AD and She is only one who can trace Herself back to Him. Many accuse The Catholics of being a ‘man-made’ church, forgetting their own can only be traced back to a man or woman who started them.

It is TRUE that The Catholic Church was started by a man! Our accusers simply do not understand Who That Man Is!

Have a blessed Waitangi Day.

 

[Regardless]

Wow there are some intelligent answers there. You guys really know your stuff. below are what I understand to be the identifying marks. I have devided them up so easier for people to quote or coment on. there are six. I hope that’s not too much.

Identifying mark of Christians Number One:
Christians base their teachings on the Bible.

“All scripture is inspired by God…” 2 Timothy 3:16.
Jesus believed this. He said in prayer to his father: “Thy word is truth.”
He also constantly quoted the scriptures to support and prove his teachings.
So true Christians, as followers of Christ would do the same. Base their teachings on God’s word.
They would not base their beliefs and practices on human philosophies or traditions.

 

[Regardless]

Identifying mark of Christians number two:
Would worship only Jehovah and make his name known.

The first line of the “Our father” prayer says: “Our father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.”
Psalms 83:18 says “…thou who’s name alone is Jehovah, art the Most High over all the earth.” (King James translation.)

The distinct, personal name of God appears about 7000 times in the original languages of the scriptures. The most common English rendering is “Jehovah”.
Most English Bibles replace it with the titles “LORD” or “GOD” using various excuses to do this. If Jesus thought it so important, would he want Christians to remove it from the Bible?
Many religious people, when you ask what God’s name is say “God” or even, “Jesus”.
Some say “It’s Jehovah. - But we don’t think it’s important because…”

 

[Regardless]

Number three:
True Christians show genuine love.

‘Excaliber’ picked this one and quoted the Bible to prove it.
Jesus said “By this all will know you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:35.)
Most religions say they show love, and site loving things they do. But there is something that sorts out the true from the false.

1 John 3:10-12 says: “By this may be seen who are the children of God and the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother. … Be not like Cain who was of the evil one and murdered his brother…”
So you can rule out any religion that goes to war. They are not following Christ, so it follows they are not Christian.
During the world wars, almost all religions took up arms, often at the encouragement of their clergy. And slaughtered each other by the millions. Often killing people of the exact same religion, who geography happened to have put on the other side.
The same religion! Satan must have been laughing with glee.

“By this all will know you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”

• Jesus Christ, the son of God.

 

[Regardless]

Number Four.
True Christians accept Jesus Christ as God’s means of salvation.

Acts 4;12 says: “There is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”
Jesus gave his life as a ransom for obedient humans. (Matt 20:28)
He is the appointed King in the heavenly Kingdom that will rule over the earth.
God requires we obey Jesus if we want everlasting life. (John 3:36)

 

[Regardless]

Number Five.
True Christians are no part of the world.

When Jesus was before the political leader Pontius Pilate Jesus said: “My Kingdom is no part of this world.” (John 18:36.) In 17:16 he said his followers were likewise no part of the world.

True Christians are subjects of Jesus Kingdom and thus maintain strict neutrality in the world’s political affairs. No wonder, check out in Luke 4:5,6 who has control of the political powers!

Rule out all religions that meddle in politics. They are not following Christ.

 

[Regardless]

Number Six.
Jesus true followers preach God’s Kingdom as mankind’s only hope.

The second statement in the Our Father prayer is “Let your Kingdom come.” (second only to his Fathers name being glorified)
Jesus said “the good news of this Kingdom would be preached in all the inhabited earth” before the end. (Matt. 24:14.)
Why was it good news? Because it would put an end to all the human governments. (Daniel 2:44.) No wonder Jesus wanted his followers to be no part of them!

Yet many religions seldom mention the Kingdom. Instead promote human governments, alliances and organisations (of Satan’s world) as the hope for world peace.
They are not following Christ

 

[Craig_Kennedy]

Born and raised JW, and in my opinion you are dealing with a cult.

The JW’s Follow a group of MEN that have there headquarters in new york, They DON’T follow the bible. They follow scriptures that seem to support what there leaders teach.

If you are Jw youu believe.
Christ is only an angel, Michael The Archangel.

The Holy Ghost is an impersonal force.

Only 144,000 people will go to heaven, and all the other faithfull will turn the earth into a paridise.

Charitable organizations should not be the focus, because the final
Judgment is near.

Gods personal name is Jehovah, and it WAS in the bible untill Christendom took it out, then JW’S
Restored it and put it back in the bible.

No Hell.

All churches and religious groups, outside the JW’S is Babylon the Great world empire of false religion.

so here you see that they believe very differently.

Also I do not have to bring up the past. I worked at there world headquarters a few years ago.
People give up there lives…homes…marriage…etc
To dedicate there lives to God serving at the world headquarters that they call bethel.
These people are not paid for there work, However they get laid off…or told to go home when bethel is done with them. I did not have any money, no home, no Job,no anything when they did it to me…and knowone cares.

If you don’t believe me, I can verify it because there headquarters is “Getting Rid of” Thousands of people, and doing it in this bad economy.

I can give you the number to there headquarters, do a confrence call
and see if they care about me or any of there staff that served them.

Then you judge if the JW organization is Christ like. This is how they treat people in the present not only the past.

A very informative and enlightening post. Thank you!

Cheers, In Christ Craig

 

[Regardless]

Conclusion of identifying marks.

Of the thousands of religions, sects and cults that claim to be Christian,
Decide which one meets all those identifying marks.
They are true Christians and it follows would be the ones Jesus would use to preach about his Kingdom worldwide.

That’s where my studies have taken me. Am I totally wrong?

A similar line of reasoning is found in the book “What does the Bible really teach?” which is printed by Jehovah’s Witnesses. If anyone wants to know more they can ask any Witness for a copy or a free Bible study.
(I could even get hold of one and post it to you if you wanted. I see you can make non-public replies on this site.)

May God’s blessing be on all those searching for the truth from all religions.

 

[Craig_Kennedy]

Number Five.
True Christians are no part of the world.

When Jesus was before the political leader Pontius Pilate Jesus said: “My Kingdom is no part of this world.” (John 18:36.) In 17:16 he said his followers were likewise no part of the world.

True Christians are subjects of Jesus Kingdom and thus maintain strict neutrality in the world’s political affairs. No wonder, check out in Luke 4:5,6 who has control of the political powers!

Rule out all religions that meddle in politics. They are not following Christ.

Hi Regardless,

Are you suggesting here that true Christians should NOT vote or become, for example, a Member of Parliament?

Cheers, In Christ Craig

 

[Regardless]

Hi Regardless,

Are you suggesting here that true Christians should NOT vote or become, for example, a Member of Parliament?

Cheers, In Christ Craig

I would understand so. Yes.

Remeber when some tried to push political office on Jesus. (John 6:15) He withdrew from the situation.

His followers had the same stand according to the below historian:
“Early Christianity was little understood and was regarded with little favor by those who ruled the pagan world. ... Christians refused to share certain duties of Roman citizens. ... They would not hold political office.”—On the Road to Civilization, A World History. A. Heckel and J. Sigman, pp. 237,*238.

 

[Deconi]

Wow there are some intelligent answers there. You guys really know your stuff. below are what I understand to be the identifying marks. I have devided them up so easier for people to quote or coment on. there are six. I hope that’s not too much.

Identifying mark of Christians Number One:
Christians base their teachings on the Bible.

“All scripture is inspired by God…” 2 Timothy 3:16.
Jesus believed this. He said in prayer to his father: “Thy word is truth.”
He also constantly quoted the scriptures to support and prove his teachings.
So true Christians, as followers of Christ would do the same. Base their teachings on God’s word.
They would not base their beliefs and practices on human philosophies or traditions.

This is limited! Christians FOLLOW Christ and His teachings; not base their teachings on just The Book

There is an argument from some Jewish perspective that The Bible is more about Moses!
Moses wrote 5 - books of Scriptures!
Jesus wrote NONE!

He saw God, albeit, only part of Him!
Scriptures does not say Jesus did!

Moses received the 10 Commandments from God.
Jesus recieved NONE in similar fashion.

etc… etc… etc.

There are now MANY VERSIONS of The Bible, including yours! Which is the correct one?
All I can say is that The Catholic Church had it first, and translated it into the linear languages of the world as She spread The Good News!

You can research all this now and realise, The Catholic Bible has MORE Books than almost all the Protestant ones. When the Reformers REMOVED some of the books from Scriptures, others (including yours) now claim “we” ADDED books!!

 

[Deconi]

Identifying mark of Christians number two:
Would worship only Jehovah and make his name known.

The first line of the “Our father” prayer says: “Our father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.”
Psalms 83:18 says “…thou who’s name alone is Jehovah, art the Most High over all the earth.” (King James translation.)

The distinct, personal name of God appears about 7000 times in the original languages of the scriptures. The most common English rendering is “Jehovah”.
Most English Bibles replace it with the titles “LORD” or “GOD” using various excuses to do this. If Jesus thought it so important, would he want Christians to remove it from the Bible?
Many religious people, when you ask what God’s name is say “God” or even, “Jesus”.
Some say “It’s Jehovah. - But we don’t think it’s important because…”

“Jehovah” is DERIVED from the Hebrew! If what you say is true, then the Hebrew should be what we proclaim! Also, it was formulated as the name of God, because the Hebrews were too fearful to actually speak His Holy Name!

The 'Our Father…" does not speak God’s Name either!

Muslims, Christians, Judaism and now JWs, ALL claim to have The One True God by Name! They all worship God and make His ‘name’ known! In other words, we are all doing what your No.2 says, but which is correct? Are YOU (JWs) the only ones that have it right?

 

[Deconi]

Number three:
True Christians show genuine love.

‘Excaliber’ picked this one and quoted the Bible to prove it.
Jesus said “By this all will know you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:35.)
Most religions say they show love, and site loving things they do. But there is something that sorts out the true from the false.

1 John 3:10-12 says: “By this may be seen who are the children of God and the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother. … Be not like Cain who was of the evil one and murdered his brother…”
So you can rule out any religion that goes to war. They are not following Christ, so it follows they are not Christian.
During the world wars, almost all religions took up arms, often at the encouragement of their clergy. And slaughtered each other by the millions. Often killing people of the exact same religion, who geography happened to have put on the other side.
The same religion! Satan must have been laughing with glee.

“By this all will know you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”

• Jesus Christ, the son of God.

ALL God’s children show genuine love, whether Christian or not, whether believer or not!

In every religion, you will find they who possess and live this out!

Atheists show it all the time, without even claiming they believe.

 

[Deconi]

Number Four.
True Christians accept Jesus Christ as God’s means of salvation.

Acts 4;12 says: “There is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”
Jesus gave his life as a ransom for obedient humans. (Matt 20:28)
He is the appointed King in the heavenly Kingdom that will rule over the earth.
God requires we obey Jesus if we want everlasting life. (John 3:36)

Limited again.

True Christians, KNOW that He Is God Incarnate.

Jesus Christ. There is no other name under Heaven that will save us! None other, NOT EVEN “JEHOVAH.”