jehovah witnesses

[jw2lds2catholic]

PS.some things they teach ;

.9. There is no life after death except for the 144,000 Jehovah’s Witnesses
)

Actually, there is also the resurrection for good JWs and those who had never heard the doctrine of JW in the New System after Armegedon (the war in which non-JWs are exterminated).
After 1000 years the non-JWs had better be JWs or they, too, will be utterly destroyed. Cheery stuff, huh

 

[pr35120]

Actually, there is also the resurrection for good JWs and those who had never heard the doctrine of JW in the New System after Armegedon (the war in which non-JWs are exterminated).
After 1000 years the non-JWs had better be JWs or they, too, will be utterly destroyed. Cheery stuff, huh

you know what thats funny , you say that. i was thinking about that the other day. if they say their the true religon and 144,00 is going to heaven.what happens to th rest.now look, ive done my research there is a lot of jws’. so what happens to the rest of them.in either situation.my boss is a jw. i find something, and then he keeps changing what kind of proof he needs, on all kinds of issues. i find it. then he changes what kind of proof he needs.like the trinity, he says theres only a couple of scriptures that you might think that, but there like5 or 6 that prove that wrong . if you believe that the bible doesnt contradict itself, how can you say that.doesnt make sense.im trying to stop talk about religon, with him. . because its a waste.he says he’s still looking for the truth. but i think he’s trying to set me up so we can think we’re trying to find the truth together, and it ends up being his.i might be wrong, and i might be.but ive been following my heart for too long, i gotta start going with my gut feelings.and my gut feeling is telling me, thats their something wrong , and not right with what he’s saying .see here i go too. with the rest. forgive me, if you can.if you tamper with the bible, and start changing things, theres something wrong period

 

[jen_fla]

you know what thats funny , you say that. i was thinking about that the other day. if they say their the true religon and 144,00 is going to heaven.what happens to th rest.now look, ive done my research there is a lot of jws’. so what happens to the rest of them.in either situation.my boss is a jw. i find something, and then he keeps changing what kind of proof he needs, on all kinds of issues. i find it. then he changes what kind of proof he needs.like the trinity, he says theres only a couple of scriptures that you might think that, but there like5 or 6 that prove that wrong . if you believe that the bible doesnt contradict itself, how can you say that.doesnt make sense.im trying to stop talk about religon, with him. . because its a waste.he says he’s still looking for the truth. but i think he’s trying to set me up so we can think we’re trying to find the truth together, and it ends up being his.i might be wrong, and i might be.but ive been following my heart for too long, i gotta start going with my gut feelings.and my gut feeling is telling me, thats their something wrong , and not right with what he’s saying .see here i go too. with the rest. forgive me, if you can.if you tamper with the bible, and start changing things, theres something wrong period

Amen to that!

How Old Is Your Church?
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.

If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as 'Church of the Nazarene," “Pentecostal Gospel.” “Holiness Church,” “Pilgrim Holiness Church,” “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.

If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Amen to that!

How Old Is Your Church?
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.

If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as 'Church of the Nazarene," “Pentecostal Gospel.” “Holiness Church,” “Pilgrim Holiness Church,” “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.

If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.

 

[Regardless]

That’s a good point about John 1:1 BILL PICK.
You said:

"they have altered the Bible in John 1:1… The New World Translation has added the word “a” to the verse so it says, “…and the Word was a god.” The correct translation is “… the Word was with God and the Word was God.”

The NWT translates …“the word was with God and the word was a god.”

I have seen John 1:1 written in greek. Two different words are used! Check it out for yourself.
If John specifically used two different words when he wrote his gospel in greek, there must be a difference between them.

It seems strange that almost no other translation takes notice of this, but translates both words as if they were the same. (=God)

Why is that do you think?

 

[Regardless]

Jen fla, you wrote:
If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.

What makes you think that? Most major teachings of the catholic church didn’t show up untill hundreds of years later.

ie. Jesus never mentioned the trinity. The word trinity isn’t in the Bible. Infact the Catholic Encyclopedia says: *“In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word τρίας [tri′as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180" *
The trinity is pretty important isn’t it? 150 years after church set up before anyone mentioned it?

Historian Will Durant would also disagree with you: *“The Church took over some religious customs and forms common in pre-Christian [pagan] Rome—the stole and other vestments of pagan priests, the use of incense and holy water in purifications, the burning of candles and an everlasting light before the altar, the worship of the saints, the architecture of the basilica, the law of Rome as a basis for canon law, the title of Pontifex Maximus for the Supreme Pontiff, and, in the fourth century, the Latin language . . . The Roman Church followed in the footsteps of the Roman state.”—*The Story of Civilization: Part III—Caesar and Christ.

Christianity started in 33. not the catholic church.

 

[Deconi]

Jen fla, you wrote:
If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.

What makes you think that? Most major teachings of the catholic church didn’t show up untill hundreds of years later.

ie. Jesus never mentioned the trinity. The word trinity isn’t in the Bible. Infact the Catholic Encyclopedia says: *“In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word τρίας [tri′as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180" *
The trinity is pretty important isn’t it? 150 years after church set up before anyone mentioned it?

Historian Will Durant would also disagree with you: *“The Church took over some religious customs and forms common in pre-Christian [pagan] Rome—the stole and other vestments of pagan priests, the use of incense and holy water in purifications, the burning of candles and an everlasting light before the altar, the worship of the saints, the architecture of the basilica, the law of Rome as a basis for canon law, the title of Pontifex Maximus for the Supreme Pontiff, and, in the fourth century, the Latin language . . . The Roman Church followed in the footsteps of the Roman state.”—*The Story of Civilization: Part III—Caesar and Christ.

Christianity started in 33. not the catholic church.

Kiwi, I’d suggest you read around the forum first, before raising the flag of ignorance!

Most the misconceptions you’ve lumped together here have been discussed to death already. Just be aware…

 

[Bill_Pick]

Jen fla, you wrote:
If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.

What makes you think that? Most major teachings of the catholic church didn’t show up untill hundreds of years later.

ie. Jesus never mentioned the trinity. The word trinity isn’t in the Bible. Infact the Catholic Encyclopedia says: *“In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word τρίας [tri′as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180" *
The trinity is pretty important isn’t it? 150 years after church set up before anyone mentioned it?

Historian Will Durant would also disagree with you: *“The Church took over some religious customs and forms common in pre-Christian [pagan] Rome—the stole and other vestments of pagan priests, the use of incense and holy water in purifications, the burning of candles and an everlasting light before the altar, the worship of the saints, the architecture of the basilica, the law of Rome as a basis for canon law, the title of Pontifex Maximus for the Supreme Pontiff, and, in the fourth century, the Latin language . . . The Roman Church followed in the footsteps of the Roman state.”—*The Story of Civilization: Part III—Caesar and Christ.

Christianity started in 33. not the catholic church.

Christianity started in 33. not the catholic church., please prove this statment to us… well i hope you know when the jw got started by chas russel many years later. and why did you use a small g in GOD. Please answer the questions and i have a lot more OK

 

[JeanneH]

Jen fla, you wrote:
If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.

What makes you think that? Most major teachings of the catholic church didn’t show up untill hundreds of years later.

ie. Jesus never mentioned the trinity. The word trinity isn’t in the Bible. Infact the Catholic Encyclopedia says: *“In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word τρίας [tri′as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180" *
The trinity is pretty important isn’t it? 150 years after church set up before anyone mentioned it?

Historian Will Durant would also disagree with you: *“The Church took over some religious customs and forms common in pre-Christian [pagan] Rome—the stole and other vestments of pagan priests, the use of incense and holy water in purifications, the burning of candles and an everlasting light before the altar, the worship of the saints, the architecture of the basilica, the law of Rome as a basis for canon law, the title of Pontifex Maximus for the Supreme Pontiff, and, in the fourth century, the Latin language . . . The Roman Church followed in the footsteps of the Roman state.”—*The Story of Civilization: Part III—Caesar and Christ.

Christianity started in 33. not the catholic church.

“Teachings” started to show up hundreds of years later because what Jesus had taught from the beginning began to be questioned by heretics. That is when the councils began , starting in Acts I think, to define actually what was being questioned. So although the trinity is not mentioned in the Bible it is implied in Matthew and defined by a council because just as now you are questioning it, it was questioned then.

I am surprised to find you on this site. I have a JW friend and she told me that she is discouraged from using a PC.

God Bless
Jeanne

 

[jen_fla]

Jen fla, you wrote:
If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.

What makes you think that? Most major teachings of the catholic church didn’t show up untill hundreds of years later.

ie. Jesus never mentioned the trinity. The word trinity isn’t in the Bible. Infact the Catholic Encyclopedia says: *“In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word τρίας [tri′as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180" *
The trinity is pretty important isn’t it? 150 years after church set up before anyone mentioned it?

Historian Will Durant would also disagree with you: *“The Church took over some religious customs and forms common in pre-Christian [pagan] Rome—the stole and other vestments of pagan priests, the use of incense and holy water in purifications, the burning of candles and an everlasting light before the altar, the worship of the saints, the architecture of the basilica, the law of Rome as a basis for canon law, the title of Pontifex Maximus for the Supreme Pontiff, and, in the fourth century, the Latin language . . . The Roman Church followed in the footsteps of the Roman state.”—*The Story of Civilization: Part III—Caesar and Christ.

Christianity started in 33. not the catholic church.

i would suggest you start with the readings of the early Church fathers, particularly St Ignatius of Antioch who had been a disciple of Saint John the Apostle. He also writes about Trinity. The Bible came from the Catholic Church not other way around so it’s a good idea to read what the ECF’s taught.

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid. Ignatius Letter to Smyrna ch. 8 AD110

deconi made a good suggestion. there are many threads that have gone over you concerns repeatedly. it might help you if you start researching how the NT of the Holy Bible came to be. there are many threads on here about that, but this one is one i just happen to have bookmarked. it is a bit long, but please read through each post and listen to what both sides are saying.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=238010

i am sure some other posters here might know of better threads to get you going.

also yes, the Church did allow some pagan traditions to be incorporated provided they did not interfere with the message of salvation from the ONE true God.

i wish you the best on your search for the Truth.

 

[jen_fla]

Jen fla, you wrote:
If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.

What makes you think that? Most major teachings of the catholic church didn’t show up untill hundreds of years later.

ie. Jesus never mentioned the trinity. The word trinity isn’t in the Bible. Infact the Catholic Encyclopedia says: *“In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word τρίας [tri′as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180" *
The trinity is pretty important isn’t it? 150 years after church set up before anyone mentioned it?

Historian Will Durant would also disagree with you: “The Church took over some religious customs and forms common in pre-Christian [pagan] Rome—the stole and other vestments of pagan priests, the use of incense and holy water in purifications, the burning of candles and an everlasting light before the altar, the worship of the saints, the architecture of the basilica, the law of Rome as a basis for canon law, the title of Pontifex Maximus for the Supreme Pontiff, and, in the fourth century, the Latin language . . . The Roman Church followed in the footsteps of the Roman state.”—The Story of Civilization: Part III—Caesar and Christ.

Christianity started in 33. not the catholic church.

whoops, i forgot to respond to that.

look, Catholics do NOT worship the saints, so anyone that claims otherwise is not a very credible source. read through our Catechism and please tell me where we worship saints or where that is even permitted. if you want to expand your knowledge please take the time to find out what we actually believe.

you also have to wonder WHY is it that other Christian churches accuse the Catholic Church of all sorts of nonsense. how is it in their best interest?

but these are all topics for other threads.

 

[Regardless]

Christianity started in 33. not the catholic church., please prove this statment to us… well i hope you know when the jw got started by chas russel many years later. and why did you use a small g in GOD. Please answer the questions and i have a lot more OK

Hi Bill, i’m back.
1./ Christians first called that in Acts 11:26. Christians = Christianity. yes?
jen fla said Catholic church started in 33. “Catholic” not mentioned in Bible. I think it is for you to proove the catholic church started in 33.
As Jen acknowledged church allowed pagan traditions in as time passed. Sounds like Trinity and very nature of God changed too.
Was it still the Christianity Jesus started then?

2./You asked politely for me to answer small g in God thing. here goes…
There were many called gods in Bible times. (1 Cor. 8:5,6)
We know there is only one true God. So in English we use “God” when talking about the Almighty God, (the Father, YHWH) and “a god” (or divine, godlike) when talking about another divine or powerful person.
The Bible wasn’t written in English of course. John written in Greek. How did they differenciate?
Almighty God was written “ho theos” (literally; The god.)
Any other god would be just “theos”.(we add ‘a’ in English for grammer)
John 1;1 says "… the Word was with “ho theos”, and the Word was “theos”
(the Word was with God and the Word was a god.)
Does that make sense? I’ve got a good book by a proffessor fellow who explains it better.
there are some Bibles that have the greek written underneath. Look one up and you can clearly see a slightly different word.

When you translate it correctly John 1:14 and 18 makes alot more sense for a start. But of course it does not support the Trinity.

Sorry for such a long post.

 

[Deconi]

Hi Bill, i’m back.
1./ Christians first called that in Acts 11:26. Christians = Christianity. yes?
jen fla said Catholic church started in 33. “Catholic” not mentioned in Bible. I think it is for you to proove the catholic church started in 33.
As Jen acknowledged church allowed pagan traditions in as time passed. Sounds like Trinity and very nature of God changed too.
Was it still the Christianity Jesus started then?

2./You asked politely for me to answer small g in God thing. here goes…
There were many called gods in Bible times. (1 Cor. 8:5,6)
We know there is only one true God. So in English we use “God” when talking about the Almighty God, (the Father, YHWH) and “a god” (or divine, godlike) when talking about another divine or powerful person.
The Bible wasn’t written in English of course. John written in Greek. How did they differenciate?
Almighty God was written “ho theos” (literally; The god.)
Any other god would be just “theos”.(we add ‘a’ in English for grammer)
John 1;1 says "… the Word was with “ho theos”, and the Word was “theos”
(the Word was with God and the Word was a god.)
Does that make sense? I’ve got a good book by a proffessor fellow who explains it better.
there are some Bibles that have the greek written underneath. Look one up and you can clearly see a slightly different word.

When you translate it correctly John 1:14 and 18 makes alot more sense for a start. But of course it does not support the Trinity.

Sorry for such a long post.

No, Bub. Seriously, read around first…instead of ‘attacking’ the word ‘catholic,’ let alone The Catholic Church!

Here’s a better test to start you off.

The Bible was compiled by Councils and the books included in them (The Canon of Scriptures) was CLOSED in about 400AD by Pope …??

Now, all you have to do is to trace the JWs back to as far as you can. If you can PHYSICALLY TRACE the JWs back to 400AD, then we can take you a bit more seriously that you are actually searching for truth!

Don’t bother with The Catholic Church being started in 33AD because you will NOT BELIEVE YOUR BRAIN when you find out!

Kia Ora.

 

[excaliber]

Hi Bill, i’m back.
1./ Christians first called that in Acts 11:26. Christians = Christianity. yes?
jen fla said Catholic church started in 33. “Catholic” not mentioned in Bible. I think it is for you to proove the catholic church started in 33.
As Jen acknowledged church allowed pagan traditions in as time passed. Sounds like Trinity and very nature of God changed too.
Was it still the Christianity Jesus started then?

2./You asked politely for me to answer small g in God thing. here goes…
There were many called gods in Bible times. (1 Cor. 8:5,6)
We know there is only one true God. So in English we use “God” when talking about the Almighty God, (the Father, YHWH) and “a god” (or divine, godlike) when talking about another divine or powerful person.
The Bible wasn’t written in English of course. John written in Greek. How did they differenciate?
Almighty God was written “ho theos” (literally; The god.)
Any other god would be just “theos”.(we add ‘a’ in English for grammer)
John 1;1 says "… the Word was with “ho theos”, and the Word was “theos”
(the Word was with God and the Word was a god.)
Does that make sense? I’ve got a good book by a proffessor fellow who explains it better.
there are some Bibles that have the greek written underneath. Look one up and you can clearly see a slightly different word.

When you translate it correctly John 1:14 and 18 makes alot more sense for a start. But of course it does not support the Trinity.

Sorry for such a long post.

I have seen longer posts LOL.
I have a question…
Your Faith rests on the idea that Jehovah directs the organization.

Not that the Organization is educationaly superior to other churches, or that the organization had an elite translation team. Is that correct?

Its important to establish WHERE your validity is coming from when talking to Catholics, or they don’t take you seriously.

For example The Catholic church has universities and hospitals and sends priests through years of training in nationaly recognized schools. Do you see a difference here?

Right, so when you speak of translation skills and such who would take that seriously when the
Governing body dose not necessarily have ANY educational background…they could have a G.E.D. and still be at the highest level of the Jehovah’s witnesses.

Perhaps explaining how Jehovah
led Jehovah’s witnesses in there understanding. Hey you can’t get a better translation team then Jehovah right? LOL

 

[Bill_Pick]

Hi Bill, i’m back.
1./ Christians first called that in Acts 11:26. Christians = Christianity. yes?
jen fla said Catholic church started in 33. “Catholic” not mentioned in Bible. I think it is for you to proove the catholic church started in 33.
As Jen acknowledged church allowed pagan traditions in as time passed. Sounds like Trinity and very nature of God changed too.
Was it still the Christianity Jesus started then?

2./You asked politely for me to answer small g in God thing. here goes…
There were many called gods in Bible times. (1 Cor. 8:5,6)
We know there is only one true God. So in English we use “God” when talking about the Almighty God, (the Father, YHWH) and “a god” (or divine, godlike) when talking about another divine or powerful person.
The Bible wasn’t written in English of course. John written in Greek. How did they differenciate?
Almighty God was written “ho theos” (literally; The god.)
Any other god would be just “theos”.(we add ‘a’ in English for grammer)
John 1;1 says "… the Word was with “ho theos”, and the Word was “theos”
(the Word was with God and the Word was a god.)
Does that make sense? I’ve got a good book by a proffessor fellow who explains it better.
there are some Bibles that have the greek written underneath. Look one up and you can clearly see a slightly different word.

When you translate it correctly John 1:14 and 18 makes alot more sense for a start. But of course it does not support the Trinity.

Sorry for such a long post.

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

 

[Bill_Pick]

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

PS.the name cathloic did not come in to being until about 100 ad but the cc started in 33ad. read matt 18;17-18

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Since Jesus established the Catholic church, even the Catacombs will tell you the Catholic stories…that was in the years right after Christ…

 

[jen_fla]

Hi Bill, i’m back.
1./ Christians first called that in Acts 11:26. Christians = Christianity. yes?
jen fla said Catholic church started in 33. “Catholic” not mentioned in Bible. I think it is for you to proove the catholic church started in 33.
As Jen acknowledged church allowed pagan traditions in as time passed. Sounds like Trinity and very nature of God changed too.
Was it still the Christianity Jesus started then?

2./You asked politely for me to answer small g in God thing. here goes…
There were many called gods in Bible times. (1 Cor. 8:5,6)
We know there is only one true God. So in English we use “God” when talking about the Almighty God, (the Father, YHWH) and “a god” (or divine, godlike) when talking about another divine or powerful person.
The Bible wasn’t written in English of course. John written in Greek. How did they differenciate?
Almighty God was written “ho theos” (literally; The god.)
Any other god would be just “theos”.(we add ‘a’ in English for grammer)
John 1;1 says "… the Word was with “ho theos”, and the Word was “theos”
(the Word was with God and the Word was a god.)
Does that make sense? I’ve got a good book by a proffessor fellow who explains it better.
there are some Bibles that have the greek written underneath. Look one up and you can clearly see a slightly different word.

When you translate it correctly John 1:14 and 18 makes alot more sense for a start. But of course it does not support the Trinity.

Sorry for such a long post.

you misunderstood what i had said. you seem to think there were never any pagan associations in Judeo/Christianity before the Church came around. not too sure when you think the Church got started, but that is for another thread. really, if you understand how the new testament came to be, this all might make more sense.

but i will quickly go into this pagan bit.

it is incorrect to believe everything associated with paganism is evil. the Jews in the OT offered up animals as a sacrifice to the one True God and there were pagans that offered sacrifices to many false gods. at that point in time, the offering itself of a sacrifice was not what was sinful, but the worshipping of false Gods was (and still is).

if the pagans had a ritual of dunking someone in water for some religious worship of false gods, that does not make it evil when Catholics baptize with water for the One True God. playing with Easter eggs can be an innocent game or it can be a festive way to break a Catholic fast during lent. however, if you have some ritual with eggs because you think you’re pleasing some fertility goddess, then you are sinning.

so all i’m saying is stop worrying so much about the eggs (or incense etc), and look into the meaning behind what is being done with the eggs.

take the time to read what the early Church fathers said about the Holy Trinity. like i said before St Ignatius of Antioch was a disciple of Saint John the Apostle.

 

[Regardless]

No, Bub. Seriously, read around first…instead of ‘attacking’ the word ‘catholic,’ let alone The Catholic Church!

Here’s a better test to start you off.

The Bible was compiled by Councils and the books included in them (The Canon of Scriptures) was CLOSED in about 400AD by Pope …??

Now, all you have to do is to trace the JWs back to as far as you can. If you can PHYSICALLY TRACE the JWs back to 400AD, then we can take you a bit more seriously that you are actually searching for truth!

Don’t bother with The Catholic Church being started in 33AD because you will NOT BELIEVE YOUR BRAIN when you find out!

Kia Ora.

Thanks mate.
Someone said the catholic church started in 33 which i disagreed with and couldn’t help commenting on.
As you say, the councils were still establishing what books they would accept in the Bible at the council of carthage! other councils set up official creeds in the decades prior. Whether Jesus was equal to God was still being debated through 3rd century.
I think that was when the catholic church was really being established.
To say it began in 33 is like me claiming the Jehovahs witnesses started in 33. Infact the group of Bible students who became JWs started in the 1870’s. The witnesses adopted the name Jehovahs Witnesses in 1935.
Kia ora yourself.

 

[Regardless]

I have seen longer posts LOL.
I have a question…
Your Faith rests on the idea that Jehovah directs the organization.

Not that the Organization is educationaly superior to other churches, or that the organization had an elite translation team. Is that correct?

Its important to establish WHERE your validity is coming from when talking to Catholics, or they don’t take you seriously.

For example The Catholic church has universities and hospitals and sends priests through years of training in nationaly recognized schools. Do you see a difference here?

Right, so when you speak of translation skills and such who would take that seriously when the
Governing body dose not necessarily have ANY educational background…they could have a G.E.D. and still be at the highest level of the Jehovah’s witnesses.

Perhaps explaining how Jehovah
led Jehovah’s witnesses in there understanding. Hey you can’t get a better translation team then Jehovah right? LOL

I think I agree with everything you said Excaliber.
Jehovahs Witnesses would never have more people with doctrates and letters after their names than the Catholic Church.
I know men with great responsibility in JWs who are chimney sweeps or forestry workers by trade!
But what university did Peter attend? he was a fisherman. Acts 4:13 calls the apostles “unlettered and ordinary”. yet Jesus chose them to preach his message, Not the learned Scribes and Pharisses.

As you say, I think Jehovah must be directing the organisation, (through Jesus Christ.)
How else could a bunch of no-bodys explode into a worldwide organisation that is doing the most extensive Bible education work in history?
JWs is a religious movement that has been fought tooth, tongue and pen by the dominant religions of the world. has been misrepresented, banned, cursed, mobbed. driven underground by nazi, faschist and soviet dictators.
Yet it has survived and flourished. people from all religions, nations and backgrounds continue to flow into it.
In Matthew 24 Jesus told apostles what the last days before his kingdom took over would be like. Bad.
Except Matt 24:14 said the good news of the kingdom would be preached in all the inhabited earth, then the end will come.
What other religion has 7 million volunteers out trying to tell people about the kingdom? What religion is Jehovah using to do that today?