jehovah witnesses

[excaliber]

Let me be quick to point out that Catholics DO believe that there are good people within the JW organization, and that being a JW in and of itself does not necessarily disqualify one from salvation. Catholics simply think that the beliefs of the JWs contain serious errors, ones serious enough that they might actually endanger salvation. We know that you probably feel similarly (if not more so) about the Catholic Church. You seem like a good person, Regardless, and we are glad that you have joined us here for a healthy debate.

Its full of good people, and I like the ministry school. I think preaching door to door is one of many ways to preach to people.

what is dangerous is that people trust the watchtower organization with theology.

For example regardless should have just sang a hymn which states.
" Before us there stands a spread table of wine and of unlevened bread. They are SYMBOLS we know as reminders they show with what nourishment we must be fed."

You have a blatant denial of the real presence here.

On April 9, 2009
Jehovah’s witnesses are going to spread this herasy. As they gather
they will pass wine around and bread. Each person will most likely refuse the bread and wine, because they actually believe that
only 144,000 people will go to heaven. Things like this is dangerous.

Some of the MOST IMPORTANT things in christianity such as baptism…Jehovah’s witnesses mess that up.
The Eucharist…Jehovah’s witnesses completely ruin that.
The Holy Trinity…Jehovah’s witnesses don’t even think Christ is devine.
The bible…Jehovah’s witnesses remove Christ’s divinity and also that of the Holy Spirit, also they add comentary in all there books which interprets the scriptures very incorectly. For example Regardless is studying a book called “Live with Jehovahs day in mind” of course Jehovahs day means Armagedon…but recently regardless was studying about testing out Jehovah “Malachi 3:10”
The book goes on to imply that testing out Jehovah means to offer
your time, energy , and resources,
material contributions to Watchtower organization!!!
And that God would bless you for this. There blessing is taught to be
numerical groth of Jehovah’s witnesses member ship to around 7 million ( real jw teaching)
Also Jehovah’s witnesses believe that there blessing is…now don’t laugh at this, but (2 Peter 1:19)
they think means they have been given knowledge of bible prohecy greater then that of any group.
Yup the same Jehovah’s witnesses
that have made more false prophecy’s then any group I know,
And is famous for flip flopped doctrine actualy believe’s they are superior in knowledge because Jehovah blessed them.

ALL THAT INCORECT INFORMATION from Malachi 3:10.
you can be the nicest person on the planet, but if you trust Watchtower theology it will get you up to your neck in herasy.

 

[mkarzon]

It’s not really possible to have an sincere discussion with JW’s.

Although they don’t realize it and it’s not their fault, they are some of the most disingenuous people I’ve ever met when it comes to discussing religion. They’ll ask you a question, but you’re answer will mean absolutely nothing to them. They are ONLY trying to get you to see their view of things.

 

[ricko]

Regardless, I’m sorry to see you bow out especially after making several accusations against Christianity in general. As man to man do you think that is right to run up to a camp, throw stones and then run away? You are an individual are you not? Does the JW allow you to think for yourself or do they tell you not to go to these forums? If you really believe your choice in religions, if you believe the JWs to be right then would not that belief stand up to scrutiny? We are not afraid of discussing Catholism with you or anyone, we put the Catholic Church in the full light of day for everyone to see and will answer any questions about it. Can you do the same with the Jehovah Witnesses? We only ask that you don’t hit us with a bunch of questions/accusations like a shotgun and then run away. Man to man, adult to adult, we’re willing to debate, can you?

 

[Ruthie]

I have never seen JWs practice Christianity.

Ricko, I have to disagree with you on this one. When my sister’s husband left her with 4 kids, all young, she would come out of the Kingdom Hall and find the back of her car filled with groceries. They also replaced her holey roof.

I know they do ugly things, too (my niece is disfellowshipped), but to say they never act like Christians is wrong.

 

[Primrose]

Hi, I have had JW’s come the last few weeks and last week I invited her in for a coffee. Praise the Lord, i I did have my friend who has her degree in theology (protestant). I threw all of the things I knew of JW’s and Mary (the JW) said that they don’t believe in the trinity. Jesus is divine but the holy spirit is God’s power not a person. The 144,000 will go to heaven to rule with God, the rest of the believers will be on the paradise on earth. St Michael is the angel who threw Lucifer out of heaven. And she was quoting scripture, reading out and comparing it with our translations (Ok protestant, NKJ, NLT, NIV). She was a lovely lady, although I do feel she was lonely cos her husband died last year from bowel cancer and she just wanted to have a chat. I’ve invited her again. I don’t know if she’ll come. She also said anyone is invited to attend and she didn’t know that the watch tower had a website and she didn’t know that there was a bible on the website.
Primrose

 

[excaliber]

Ricko, I have to disagree with you on this one. When my sister’s husband left her with 4 kids, all young, she would come out of the Kingdom Hall and find the back of her car filled with groceries. They also replaced her holey roof.

I know they do ugly things, too (my niece is disfellowshipped), but to say they never act like Christians is wrong.

I think Rico was talking about the Organization…not individual people doing nice things.

For example…individual Catholic and Jehovah’s witnesses do nice things, and so do hindu etc…etc…
But the difference is that the Catholic Church as a whole supports religious, and hospitals,
and many other charity’s.

The Jehovah’s witnesses Organization, dose not have even one hospital or homeless shelter…
or ANY charity. The Organization dose not even take care of its own
Religious.

People may do nice things, but the
Jehovah’s witnesses Organization is setting a terrible example of how a Christian Organization operates.

 

[bkropp]

Born and raised JW, and in my opinion you are dealing with a cult.

The JW’s Follow a group of MEN that have there headquarters in new york, They DON’T follow the bible. They follow scriptures that seem to support what there leaders teach.

If you are Jw youu believe.
Christ is only an angel, Michael The Archangel.

The Holy Ghost is an impersonal force.

Only 144,000 people will go to heaven, and all the other faithfull will turn the earth into a paridise.

Charitable organizations should not be the focus, because the final
Judgment is near.

Gods personal name is Jehovah, and it WAS in the bible untill Christendom took it out, then JW’S
Restored it and put it back in the bible.

No Hell.

All churches and religious groups, outside the JW’S is Babylon the Great world empire of false religion.

so here you see that they believe very differently.

Also I do not have to bring up the past. I worked at there world headquarters a few years ago.
People give up there lives…homes…marriage…etc
To dedicate there lives to God serving at the world headquarters that they call bethel.
These people are not paid for there work, However they get laid off…or told to go home when bethel is done with them. I did not have any money, no home, no Job,no anything when they did it to me…and knowone cares.

If you don’t believe me, I can verify it because there headquarters is “Getting Rid of” Thousands of people, and doing it in this bad economy.

I can give you the number to there headquarters, do a confrence call
and see if they care about me or any of there staff that served them.

Then you judge if the JW organization is Christ like. This is how they treat people in the present not only the past.

Thanks for that testimony!
Just curious. Where did you turn when you concluded that JW was false?

 

[excaliber]

Well Its a funny story.
Its very painfull for a Jehovah’s witness to learn that there Organization was not picked by Jehovah in 1914.

I was hurt because I trusted that
Jehovah was leading the Organization and so I never second guest it. I just trusted that SOMEONE was researching everything.

I went to a pentecostal church to visit…then another and another denomination. I felt like I would never find the truth.

BUT I KNEW ONE CHURCH WAS OUT OF THE QUESTION!!! I WOULD NEVER VISIT A CATHOLIC
CHURCH!!!

So I came to a Catholic website to
MAKE FUN OF CATHOLICS, and make myself feel better…AND I WAS SHOCKED at how nice people were to me. And everything that my Organization told me about Catholics was not true!!!

I wanted to go back to Jehovah’s witnesses because Catholosism was soooo different, but I could not erase the fact that the Jehovah’s witnesses Organization
uses every resource a volunteer has at bethel…then they just get rid of them…where are they supposed to go???

To this day Jehovah’s witnesses themselves canot explain why they
tell members to give up everything
and serve Jehovah at bethel…then they just get rid of them and say…you have to leave in a few weeks. WHERE ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO GO Jehovah’s witnesses CAN ANYONE ANSWER THAT?
NO elder could answer…no Curcit overseer could answer.
In fact they would rather you stay hush hush on the matter.

The Jehovah’s witnesses Governing body is fully aware of what they do to Bethelites ( The people that work full time, just like priest or religious).

There canot be a Jehovah’s witness on the planet that can be aware of what happens to there own Bethelites, and still say that they are a CHRISTIAN organization.

Jehovah’s witnesses keep very silent about this. They would shun me just because I was aware of it,
to make sure other members don’t find out. But I can PROOVE it happened. Which means its literally impossible for JW’s to have the truth and be involved in things like that.

So I will be Catholic as soon as RCIA is over…I would be baptised NOW if possible.

 

[ricko]

Ricko, I have to disagree with you on this one. When my sister’s husband left her with 4 kids, all young, she would come **out of the Kingdom Hall **and find the back of her car filled with groceries. They also replaced her holey roof.

I know they do ugly things, too (my niece is disfellowshipped), but to say they never act like Christians is wrong.

Ruthie, the bible says to love your enemies and that if you help a friend, anyone will do that. But it says to help strangers. You have shown in your post above that she was coming out of the Kingdom Hall which means she is a JW. I have never heard of them helping non JWs like running a soup kitchen. Did they come down to Louisiana and help out after our hurricanes? I never saw them but I did see the Baptist send large groups to help out and some of the local churches served hot food. I saw many churches help out but no JWs. The Catholic Church has many hospitals opened to ALL and has St. Jude hospital which will treat children with cancer for FREE if they can’t afford it. Please tell me where are the organizations that the JWs set up to help ALL Christians?

 

[Benjamin8o8]

I have a relationship with Jahowa witness, debated with them for a couple of minutes. I told them my parrents are moving so once they do we can have more face-to-face time. The Woman who could speak englisch pretty good said the Roman Catholic Church started at 325. I asked her, if I can find letters from early church fathers prior to that date, whose belifs would match with the RCC, would that prove to her it existed before that, she said yeah.

I cant believe they dont belive in hell, what is the whole point of trying to convert anybody. They added words in the bible and so fort. What is wrong with this mad world???

 

[ricko]

Mad world is right Ben. It is enough to drive you crazy with all those different religions out there and none of them in agreement yet they all claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit. Trying to debate with a Jehovah witness or a Mormon is almost impossible since they don’t or can’t deal with Truth. Just keep telling the truth and pray.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Ricko, I have to disagree with you on this one. When my sister’s husband left her with 4 kids, all young, she would come out of the Kingdom Hall and find the back of her car filled with groceries. They also replaced her holey roof.

I know they do ugly things, too (my niece is disfellowshipped), but to say they never act like Christians is wrong.

I remember debating with this one JW who was taunting me about the pedophile scandals read my sig]
Anyway - when i mentioned www.silentlambs.org he ‘deleted’ my posts.
According to the statistics [by numbers ratio] JW’s pedophile scandal far far outnumber the Catholic Church. [as do alot of other groups and so forth]

Cover-UpExpose on Jehovah Witnesses Pedophile

Its interesting to make note that this person I debated was a troll that i observed [on many sites] while telling me he was JW preacher. hmmm.

And comparitively speaking - their Bible changes the words to make Jesus a god and not God.
Even telling the peeps that St John’s Gospel was added in 1500 AD.
Even though the Catholic Church has and had carbon dated transcripts to suggest otherwise.

People who dont research for themselves will be caught off guard.

 

[excaliber]

Mad world is right Ben. It is enough to drive you crazy with all those different religions out there and none of them in agreement yet they all claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit. Trying to debate with a Jehovah witness or a Mormon is almost impossible since they don’t or can’t deal with Truth. Just keep telling the truth and pray.

My only question is…How serious
is it. Jehovah’s witnesses are full
of people that truly believe that they are doing Gods will.

But how serious is baptism, without the athority to do so?

 

[Regardless]

Wow! I missed alot in three days!

Sorry I can’t reply to all the people who posted replies to my comments.

Excaliber, you are really concerned about the bethel thing mate.
You have mentioned it a few times.

For those who are un-familiar with the term, “Bethel” is the place in each country where the organising of the witnesses is done.
“Bethelites” are those who work there. Their accomodation, meals, laundry etc is all provided for and they get a small allowance for personal stuff.
If a witness really wants to serve in bethel, they fill out an application. If there is a vacancy they may be invited to join the “bethel family”.
Most usually those invited are ones who are dedicating large amounts of their personal time to the JW Bible teaching work, so they have already shown they are prepared to make sacrifices for what they believe is right. Young, single ones are most suitable . There is no minimum or maximum time that one would live there. Some are invited for a set time, some indefinately. A bethelite could resign, become redundant or ineligible.

I have visited a few around the world. They are really peaceful, beautiful places.
I don’t know how to answer your opinion that lots are getting thrown out and not cared about anymore, and this is proof the JW’s don’t show love. All fully understood what Bethel is about, applied to serve and were invited. I know several who have done this. Some stayed for years. None were under any dellusion they would be set up for life.

 

[Regardless]

And comparitively speaking - their Bible changes the words to make Jesus a god and not God.
Even telling the peeps that St John’s Gospel was added in 1500 AD.
Even though the Catholic Church has and had carbon dated transcripts to suggest otherwise.

People who dont research for themselves will be caught off guard.

If you are interested in understanding why the JW’s translate one of the instances of “God” in John 1:1 as “a god” there was a good debate on the greek text early in this post.

As for Johns gospel being written in 1500: What are you talking about?

 

[Regardless]

I cant believe they dont belive in hell, what is the whole point of trying to convert anybody. They added words in the bible and so fort. What is wrong with this mad world???

What do you believe Hell is?

Why?

 

[Benjamin8o8]

What do you believe Hell is?

Why?

Jews believe in hell,why wouldn`t we?

 

[excaliber]

Wow! I missed alot in three days!

Sorry I can’t reply to all the people who posted replies to my comments.

Excaliber, you are really concerned about the bethel thing mate.
You have mentioned it a few times.

For those who are un-familiar with the term, “Bethel” is the place in each country where the organising of the witnesses is done.
“Bethelites” are those who work there. Their accomodation, meals, laundry etc is all provided for and they get a small allowance for personal stuff.
If a witness really wants to serve in bethel, they fill out an application. If there is a vacancy they may be invited to join the “bethel family”.
Most usually those invited are ones who are dedicating large amounts of their personal time to the JW Bible teaching work, so they have already shown they are prepared to make sacrifices for what they believe is right. Young, single ones are most suitable . There is no minimum or maximum time that one would live there. Some are invited for a set time, some indefinately. A bethelite could resign, become redundant or ineligible.

I have visited a few around the world. They are really peaceful, beautiful places.
I don’t know how to answer your opinion that lots are getting thrown out and not cared about anymore, and this is proof the JW’s don’t show love. All fully understood what Bethel is about, applied to serve and were invited. I know several who have done this. Some stayed for years. None were under any dellusion they would be set up for life.

Regardless, we thought you left us! You had me worried!!

You are correct regardless I am VERY worried about bethelites.
You are not correct, about peoples
knowledge of bethel BEFOREHAND.

Do you know about bethel entrance school? Its a class to instruct you about bethel…AFTER you already are there.

You are correct, that Food,shelter,etc…are provided. And the buildings are nice.
You get a monthly sum of money, just enugh for necessary items.
Bethelites have always been encouraged to serve God there for
there entire life.

Regardless how should a ChriSTIAN organization handle a situation where they remove a bethelite who is dependent on them for food and shelter?
Tell me exactly how you feel this should be done?

Keep in mind that they don’t have college degrees. Regardless OBVIOUSLY we both know that people need a place to stay and a way of supporting themselves.

There is currently NO arrangement
to remove a fulltime volunteer in a manner that will allow them to care for themselves, Regardless if you find it post it here please.

Bethelites just trust that they will be dealt with in a christian manner. Regardless if you were left with no place to live and no Job, wouldn’t you double check to see if you had the correct faith?

Well that’s what happened to me.

 

[jmcrcia]

So I will be Catholic as soon as RCIA is over…I would be baptised NOW if possible.

Thanks for the post, and I will be taking the journey with you this coming Easter. As someone who was involved with the witnesses as a child, I can appreciate your story and all that you’ve been through.

For all: Taking a look at the brief, and well documented, history of the organization teaches us much. Here is a link to the Catholic Answer’s article on the Jehovah’s Witnesses:

catholic.com/library/history_of_the_jehovah_witnesesses.asp

I’ve always felt that disagreeing with the Witnesses is okay, but attacking them gets us nowhere. Discussion invites and exchange of ideas, but attacks lead to battles that often reach no conclusion. This article does a lot to summarize the history of the organization from a reputable organization.

 

[excaliber]

Thanks for the post, and I will be taking the journey with you this coming Easter. As someone who was involved with the witnesses as a child, I can appreciate your story and all that you’ve been through.

For all: Taking a look at the brief, and well documented, history of the organization teaches us much. Here is a link to the Catholic Answer’s article on the Jehovah’s Witnesses:

catholic.com/library/history_of_the_jehovah_witnesesses.asp

I’ve always felt that disagreeing with the Witnesses is okay, but attacking them gets us nowhere. Discussion invites and exchange of ideas, but attacks lead to battles that often reach no conclusion. This article does a lot to summarize the history of the organization from a reputable organization.

Yes very good posts.
We need to have talks with Jehovahs witnesses so that we can
understand eachother.

But how?