jehovah witnesses

[Vasian]

I disagree.
Historians show the early Christians would not serve in the army, (I have quoted some below) and soldiers who became Christians did not remain in military service. As would surely have been the case with Cornelius and the unnamed Centurion Jesus helped .

You are making an assumption motivated by your biased paradigm.
Nowhere in scripture does it state that Cornelius gave up his commission as an officer of 100 men, let alone quit altogether.

What a an appropriate part of scripture it would have been to settle the issue once and for all for all time, if Cornelius, the Centurion in the Roman Army, the first Gentile to embrace Christianity, and by the hand of Jesus Christ no less, was recorded in those scriptures as "giving up his commission, and laying down his sword…"
Yet, the Word is silent on this matter.

Become a soldier, becoming a law enforcement officer, bodyguard, etc. is a matter of *personal conscience,*plain and simple.

 

[Highwayhound]

Thanks for your reply to my post. You quoted some interesting articles and gave me some good research material to work through. The Catholic Martyrs site will take me a while!

I think I saw a movie once on this Max Kolbe (saint now?) He was an impressive and courageous individual.

Yes, Saint Kolbe was a man that truly loved God. The book Kolbe: Saint of the Immaculate does a good job telling about his life.

Have you ever heard of Monsignor Hugh O’Flaherty? The book The Scarlet and the Black is a good read. It was well known throughout the Vatican what this golf playing boxing champ Irish monsignor was secretly up to. In fact the Nazis were pretty sure of what he was up to, but alas they never caught him. Look it up.

 

[adelore]

A-No
B-Yes, and the Church did refuse
C-No

But even what I said was way oversimplified, because the German army was huge and I don’t believe most soldiers knew what was going on in concentration camps hidden out in the middle of nowhere. So even being an unaware soldier was not in itself sinful. It was no more sinful than the bakers, farmers, tailors, engineers, who were not part of the army but none the less had to make goods to support them.

I lived in Germany for 3 1/2 years. I have been to a Concentration Camp in Germany. Dachel, down by Munic.

It is Very True that most soldiers **Didn’t know **what was going on in the Concentration Camps. In fact even the city around the Concentration Camp didn’t know what was going on in there. There was a wall up.

During my tour of this Concentration Camp, we met 3 surving Camp Prisoners. These gentelman were very old and explained to us, how the town around the Camp and even many of the Army didn’t have any idea of the Prison, Conditions, or even the Deaths that were going on inside these camps. It was all kept “hush hush”. In fact the surrounding town Didn’t even know it was a Prison Camp! If anyone has been there, you’ll see the walls are solid around this camp. No one could see into it.

It must be kept in mind that the Army Men, who worked in these camps were the **only ones **that knew what was going on in these camps. The Rest of the Army didn’t even have a clue that this was going on.

If someone came into these camps at the time, like a delivery truck, all Prisoners were put into the buildings, kept quiet, they’d not be seen, it appeared to be a Camp like any other camp or base. So you see, this was kept away from even the Rest of the Army or people outside the walls. The Army men who worked there, lived there and were not allowed outside of the Camp. They didn’t speak to anyone about what was going on inside this Camp.

I walked through the gas chambers, I saw the Ash Boxs, (this is where they’d put the peoples ashes after they had cremated their bodies, then they used the Ashes, like we use salt or sand today for the sidewalks and roads.) I saw and walked through the buildings Prisoners were kept in.

I saw many pictures of the Prisoners, their massive large graves, one big ditch where they’d strip the bodies and then throw them in the ditch.

And yes like someone said on here, it was Jews, JWs (although not called JWs back then, and JWs have went by a few different “titles” over the years.) and Many Other Religions, including Catholics, in these Concentraion Camps. It was not just any “One” group. It was anyone who went against Hilter.

But in all honesty, it started out Against the Jews, then anyone who was friends to the Jews or who would stand up for the Jews were put into these camps. This is how it all started. This is the History taught at this Camp by the tour guides and the pamplets and books sold by this camp.

Living in Germany, I learned many things about Hilter, been to more than one of his houses, his headquarters, even in the tunnels under some of the Germany towns, ect. The man was a living “nightmare”.

This all started against the Jews, this is a fact…yet keep in mind, There were many Catholics and others in these camps, because they were “Friends” or Suported the Jews and thought the treatment of the Jews were wrong.

The facts show it was the Catholic Church, who first stood up to the mistreatment of the Jews with Hilter. This is the History and Information taught at these camps.

 

[adelore]

I lived in Germany for 3 1/2 years. I have been to a Concentration Camp in Germany. Dachel, down by Munic.

It is Very True that most soldiers **Didn’t know **what was going on in the Concentration Camps. In fact even the city around the Concentration Camp didn’t know what was going on in there. There was a wall up.

During my tour of this Concentration Camp, we met 3 surving Camp Prisoners. These gentelman were very old and explained to us, how the town around the Camp and even many of the Army didn’t have any idea of the Prison, Conditions, or even the Deaths that were going on inside these camps. It was all kept “hush hush”. In fact the surrounding town Didn’t even know it was a Prison Camp! If anyone has been there, you’ll see the walls are solid around this camp. No one could see into it.

It must be kept in mind that the Army Men, who worked in these camps were the **only ones **that knew what was going on in these camps. The Rest of the Army didn’t even have a clue that this was going on.

If someone came into these camps at the time, like a delivery truck, all Prisoners were put into the buildings, kept quiet, they’d not be seen, it appeared to be a Camp like any other camp or base. So you see, this was kept away from even the Rest of the Army or people outside the walls. The Army men who worked there, lived there and were not allowed outside of the Camp. They didn’t speak to anyone about what was going on inside this Camp.

I walked through the gas chambers, I saw the Ash Boxs, (this is where they’d put the peoples ashes after they had cremated their bodies, then they used the Ashes, like we use salt or sand today for the sidewalks and roads.) I saw and walked through the buildings Prisoners were kept in.

I saw many pictures of the Prisoners, their massive large graves, one big ditch where they’d strip the bodies and then throw them in the ditch.

And yes like someone said on here, it was Jews, JWs (although not called JWs back then, and JWs have went by a few different “titles” over the years.) and Many Other Religions, including Catholics, in these Concentraion Camps. It was not just any “One” group. It was anyone who went against Hilter.

But in all honesty, it started out Against the Jews, then anyone who was friends to the Jews or who would stand up for the Jews were put into these camps. This is how it all started. This is the History taught at this Camp by the tour guides and the pamplets and books sold by this camp.

Living in Germany, I learned many things about Hilter, been to more than one of his houses, his headquarters, even in the tunnels under some of the Germany towns, ect. The man was a living “nightmare”.

This all started against the Jews, this is a fact…yet keep in mind, There were many Catholics and others in these camps, because they were “Friends” or Suported the Jews and thought the treatment of the Jews were wrong.

The facts show it was the Catholic Church, who first stood up to the mistreatment of the Jews with Hilter. This is the History and Information taught at these camps.

I know it’s hard for us to understand how no one knew what was going on in these walls, but truely, since I’ve lived in Germany it is so common to see tanks, soliders, and even hear gun shots near or around a Army camp, that no one, Citizens, would have thought anything of it, when the noise was comming from “within” the Camp walls.

I lived in Germany from 1976-1979. My husband was in the Air Force stationed in Schwabach, Germany, O’Brain Concern, (a U.S. Army Base) I worked for the U.S. Army on this base, in their Mess Hall.

So truely I do understand, having lived around/and on many bases all over the U.S and overseas, how these people in Germany (back then) had no idea of what was going on.

It’s like living near an Airport or Train Station, Highway, or an Industrail area, you just get use to “certain” sounds, so it wouldn’t alarm you. This is how Hilter got away with having these Camps right within Cities. People just get use to the sounds they live around.