Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics.

[LennyUSA]

Ok i am split between two Religions. The Catholic Church, and Jehovah’s WItnesses. Reason being the Catholic Church is the oldest Church there is and it can be traced back Jesus. The first Pope was supposedly Peter. Then Jehovah’s WItnesses have done more research than any more religion and they use the Bible more than another religion i have seen. I could just close off to the Catholic Church and continue being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses but there is a chance that the Catholic church is true and it might be where God wants me. I don’t know for sure yet but I am going to ask you people many questions. I will judge where I go on how the get answered and how reliable they are. I do not mean to bash any religion i am just trying to find the truth. I ask my questions out of kindness. So please answer out of kindness. Thank you

RULES:
You must know what the Witnesses teach. I have been studying for a long time and i will know if you telling the truth.

Do not contradict Bible verse. I give with others in the bible because they have already been explained. So you must first explain the bible verses I give you and then show me others in the bible.

Do not say things degrading the Witnesses only answer the questions i give you or i will not listen.

Let me say I am doing this out of love for God and i need to know the truth with out a doubt in my mind. So if the Catholic Church is where God is calling me He will keep me there.

My First Question why not use the Name of God? That is Jehovah or Yahweh or what ever. Jesus name was probably pronounce said Yeshua. Or something like it. Jesus is just the english way of saying it. In the Bible it is used many times. nearly 7,000 times in the OT and even in the NT it has been implied. Romans 10:13 Psalms 83:18 KJ Joel 2:32 So out of that how is there any question whether or not to use God’s Name?

 

[TobyLue]

Then Jehovah’s WItnesses have done more research than any more religion and they use the Bible more than another religion i have seen.

Maybe before proceeding, because you will get all sorts of scripture thrown back and forth, you may want to read this then ask yourself, “Who is better versed in scripture and with more authority; the one who compiled the bible or some organization that came in only some 150 years ago and who’s leaders admitted they didn’t know Greek when they translated the Bible to suit their beliefs?” Then also check the history of each Church and see if either has ever changed doctrines over the years. Remember there is a difference between doctrines and disciplines.

God Bless You.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

My First Question why not use the Name of God? That is Jehovah or Yahweh or what ever. Jesus name was probably pronounce said Yeshua. Or something like it. Jesus is just the english way of saying it. In the Bible it is used many times. nearly 7,000 times in the OT and even in the NT it has been implied. Romans 10:13 Psalms 83:18 KJ Joel 2:32 So out of that how is there any question whether or not to use God’s Name?

In ancient Hebrew times fear prevented the use of the name of God, from here the true pronunciation of God was lost. The name that was applied to prevent enunciation was "Adonai, “Lord”. The name used revealed not only His person but also His character, which became known as “Yahweh” by scholars.

The combination of the consonants “YHWH” with the vowels of Adonai, a-o-a created the hybrid “Jehovah”. Although I have to admit, I have heard this name pronounced in Catholic circles.

The LXX (Septuagint) text renders the name “He who is” and the Vulgate translation used “I Am who AM”.

“Jehovah” is never used from the original Greek New Testament Text, “Lord” is always used never “Jehovah”.

However the name Jehovah is first used by a “Catholic” Dominican Spanish Monk named Raymundus Martini in the 13th century. “Jehovah” rendering of this name is never used or seen before the 13th century.

To which Jews have cited this spelling “Jehovah” of God’s name has misplaced letters from the Catholic Monks writings, revealing that it is grammatically impossible to spell God’s name as “Jehovah” and that this rendering of God’s name was never used by the Jews (see Universal Jewish Encyclopedia).

Peace be with you

 

[mackbrislawn]

In regards to the Divine Name, of course as we know the Jews did not pronounce it but used Adonai instead. The Watchtower calls this a superstition. Is it a superstition or is it a valid practice? I understand many Jews of today do not use the Name either, and so some people think Christians should not either, out of respect to them.

It is also admitted the pronunciation has been lost. We do not know exactly how it was pronounced. Therefore any pronunciation we use now is not God’s name, but a reconstruction of it. The version Jehovah was invented by a Catholic monk in the middle ages–so, the question is, how can a word made up by a Catholic monk centuries later possibly be God’s name?

It is like you tell someone your name, but they forget it, and so they make up one themselves, and they say, well, I’ve forgotten your name but I’ve come up another one and I’ll call you that.

Would you accept that? Probably not. Therefore Jehovah is not God’s name. And it cannot be God’s name in English, there is no such thing, because God did not reveal His name in English, but in Hebrew!

Yaweh and Jehovah are sometimes called “translations” of God’s name. No, they are not translations, but incomplete efforts at transliterations, a different thing. A transliteration is an attempt to spell a word of one language into the alphabet of another language. But since we do not know how the Name was pronounced, it can be seen that is is not possible to properly spell it in English or any other language.

It seems to me that a name has three attributes:
Its pronunciation.
Its spelling.
Its meaning.

For God’s name, we do not know it’s pronunciation any more. We do not know how to say it.
We do know it’s spelling, in Hebrew. Which does not do us much good for us who do not know Hebrew.
But we do know its meaning, something like I am who am, or I am. That, I believe, is the important aspect. So, if the Name were actually to be translated, “I am” would be put in where God’s name appears in scripture. And that’s they way the Jews would have understood it anyway–it wouldn’t be a collection of strange syllables. It would be a meaningful statement.

For God’s name is in truth a statement, it is a declaration, not a label or tag. If we were to say God’s name ourselves, we would be declaring we were God! No wonder the Jews did not say it.

I’ve studied with the Witnesses, and in the booklet What Does God Require of Us?, it states in Lesson 1 that God made sure that the Bible was accurately copied and preserved. Fair enough. But, on the next page, in Lesson 2, the opposite is implied! It says that in most Bibles God’s name has been removed and has been replaced with the titles Lord or God. Furthermore, in the Name booklet, the thesis is put forth that the original New Testament manuscripts actually did use the Name, but that it afterward had been consistently replaced with Lord. So, that again means the Bible was not accurately copied and preserved after all!

This bothered me. It seemed like the Watchtower was trying to have it both ways. It makes you wonder what else has been changed.

Anyway, this is my take on the situation, if it makes sense.

 

[Rolltide]

I work as a professional historian. Would you be open to learning about the history of the Jehovah’s Witnesses (and any questions about the history of Catholicism you might have as well)?

 

[Nicea325]

Then Jehovah’s WItnesses have done more research than any more religion and they use the Bible more than another religion i have seen

Sorry,but the above is totally false. Explain how could the JW’s use the Bible more than the Roman Catholic Church/Orthodox Church who have been around for 2,000 years? I do not understand your logic-no offense.

 

[LennyUSA]

Sorry,but the above is totally false. Explain how could the JW’s use the Bible more than the Roman Catholic Church/Orthodox Church who have been around for 2,000 years? I do not understand your logic-no offense.

Nicea. I have come here to get a better understanding. I just seen them as taking a lot of research and not going by mans tradition. Trust me I am not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses it is looked down upon to do what I am doing. I want to know truth. I have been drawn to the Church. I don’t mean to make argument. I just want to know. I don’t feel comfortable at the Kingdom halls there are just thinks that seem weird and against the scriptures about the Catholic Church and I want to get them figured out.

 

[LennyUSA]

I work as a professional historian. Would you be open to learning about the history of the Jehovah’s Witnesses (and any questions about the history of Catholicism you might have as well)?

Yes i would love to get the History or Jehovah’s Witnesses. But back it up with reliable facts!!! PM and we will get in touch. I also would love the History of the Church and facts of the bible. I have many questions and i would love to talk to you. I am 14 by the way and i have always had an interest in religion. Do not think of me as 14 though treat me like you would any one else.

P.S. GO GATORS!!! haha

 

[Nicea325]

Nicea. I have come here to get a better understanding. I just seen them as taking a lot of research and not going by mans tradition. Trust me I am not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses it is looked down upon to do what I am doing. I want to know truth. I have been drawn to the Church. I don’t mean to make argument. I just want to know. I don’t feel comfortable at the Kingdom halls there are just thinks that seem weird and against the scriptures about the Catholic Church and I want to get them figured out.

Oh my friend,I mean no disrespect at all. I just want to get a better understanding of your statement. If you want to know about the Catholic Church and the Bible,you have come to the correct place. I also meant no disrespect towards JW’s,but they are relatively a new sect and many of their teachings are not in par with ancient Christianity. They deny the Trinity for staters,plus they flat out deny Jesus is God. Go ahead and PM me if you want some sources.

Good luck and God Bless

 

[Nicea325]

Yes i would love to get the History or Jehovah’s Witnesses. But back it up with reliable facts!!! PM and we will get in touch. I also would love the History of the Church and facts of the bible. I have many questions and i would love to talk to you. I am 14 by the way and i have always had an interest in religion. Do not think of me as 14 though treat me like you would any one else.

P.S. GO GATORS!!! haha

You are very young and to be honest,rather shocked someone your age has deep desire to know and understand God. I was an altar server at 14 years old,but drifted off during my late teens and most of my 20’s. However, around 28 years old I came back and got closer to God.

 

[LennyUSA]

Thank you for you kindness. Jehovah’s Witnesses have their reasons why they have come up so late. They think in 1914 that Jesus came back to earth in spirit. Then he established his congregation. They think they have the truth but now that i know the Jehovah was created. HIs name i mean i don’t know what to think.

 

[kimmielittle]

You are very young and to be honest,rather shocked someone your age has deep desire to know and understand God.

You will find a lot of us here on CAF

 

[LennyUSA]

Thank you. Ok here is another Issue on my mind. Jesus is the same person as God? But why then did Jesus pray to God? And many time Jesus said that God is above him. Here in John 20:17 it said that Jesus has not ascend to the Father. So how could just go to the Father if he is the Father? It says Jesus was a god and my god but in Psalms 82: 1-6 refers to judges as gods. In 17:3 it talks as god and Jesus as two different people. The one you sent forth Jesus Christ it says. So how is Jesus lower then God but is God? And where it says worship to Jesus at Matthew 14:33 JWs says it actually translates as to do obeisance to. John 14:28 says the Father is Greater than I Here in the Douay You have heard that I said to you: I go away, and I come unto you. If you loved me, you would indeed be glad, because I go to the Father: for the Father is greater than I. www.drbo.org

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1Jn 5:7 And there are Three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

 

[LennyUSA]

1John 5:7 is said to be corrupted. It’s said to be in agreement or Witnesses to the truth in some bibles. Says lack of Geek Scriptures Support. Prove me wrong. The others have been explained to me by Jehovah’s Witnesses. So please elaborate on that vrs. and please explain the others to me.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

1John 5:7 is said to be corrupted. It’s said to be in agreement or Witnesses to the truth in some bibles. Says lack of Geek Scriptures Support. Prove me wrong. The others have been explained to me by Jehovah’s Witnesses. So please elaborate on that vrs. and please explain the others to me.

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God!
Joh 20:29 Jesus said to him: Now, when thou hast seen me, thou believest: blessed are they, who have not seen me, yet believe.

No correction from Christ above.

1Jn 5:7

(Murdock) [For there are three that testify in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.]

(DRB) And there are Three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

(IGNT+) οτιG3754 BECAUSE τρειςG5140 THREE εισινG1526 [G5748] THERE ARE οιG3588 WHO μαρτυρουντεςG3140 [G5723] BEAR WITNESS ενG1722 τωG3588 IN ουρανωG3772 HEAVEN, οG3588 THE πατηρG3962 FATHER, οG3588 THE λογοςG3056 WORD, καιG2532 AND τοG3588 THE αγιονG40 HOLY πνευμαG4151 GHOST; καιG2532 AND ουτοιG3778 οιG3588 THESE τρειςG5140 THREE ενG1520 ONE εισινG1526 [G5748] ARE.

(KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

(KJV+) ForG3754 there areG1526 threeG5140 that bear recordG3140 inG1722 heaven,G3772 theG3588 Father,G3962 theG3588 Word,G3056 andG2532 theG3588 HolyG40 Ghost:G4151 andG2532 theseG3778 threeG5140 areG1526 one.G1520

Below are people who lived in the times when language barriers were not as they are today. Early Church Fathers

Ignatius of Antioch

Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit (ibid., 18:2).

To the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is (Letter to the Romans 1 [A.D. 110]).

Aristides

[Christians] are they who, above every people of the earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the Creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit (Apology 16 [A.D. 140]).

Tatian the Syrian

We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).

Melito of Sardis

It is no way necessary in dealing with persons of intelligence to adduce the actions of Christ after his baptism as proof that his soul and his body, his human nature, were like ours, real and not phantasmal. The activities of Christ after his baptism, and especially his miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the deity hidden in his flesh. Being God and likewise perfect man, he gave positive indications of his two natures: of his deity by the miracles during the three years following after his baptism, of his humanity in the thirty years which came before his baptism during which, by reason of his condition according to the flesh, he concealed the signs of his deity, although he was the true God existing before the ages (Fragment in Anastasius of Sinai’s The Guide 13 [A.D. 177]).

Irenaeus

For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, Father Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them; and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who announced through the prophets the dispensations and the comings, and the birth from a Virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus our Lord, and his coming from heaven in the glory of the Father to reestablish all things; and the raising up again of all flesh of all humanity, in order that to Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King, in accord with the approval of the invisible Father, every knee shall bend of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).

Clement of Alexandria

The Word, then, the Christ, is the cause both of our ancient beginning — for he was in God — and of our well-being. And now this same Word has appeared as man. He alone is both God and man, and the source of all our good things (Exhortation to the Greeks 1:7:1 [A.D. 190]).

Despised as to appearance but in reality adored, [Jesus is") the expiator, the Savior, the soother, the divine Word, he that is quite evidently true God, he that is put on a level with the Lord of the universe because he was his Son (ibid.,10:110:1).

[/quote]

 

[Lucky10279]

Catholics do not believe Jesus is the same person as the Father. He is the same God. Since they are separet people They can talk to each other.
Mikayla

 

[LennyUSA]

Catholics do not believe Jesus is the same person as the Father. He is the same God. Since they are separet people They can talk to each other.
Mikayla

Prodigal i will get back to you i have to more carefully read what you have given me.

Then how is Jesus God? Because God is the father. Why would God do that. HOw do they talk to each other? Why would they if they are both God. What? Please elaborate. Use the scriptures always use them thank you

 

[LennyUSA]

Prodigal, Why should i believe what the people say? They are not in the bible? i don’t understand. Why follow what they say. In the bible God has been used to describe judges and Satan the God of this System of things? Satan could have influenced the people who say theses things. Explain why i should believe what they say.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal, Why should i believe what the people say? They are not in the bible? i don’t understand. Why follow what they say. In the bible God has been used to describe judges and Satan the God of this System of things? Satan could have influenced the people who say theses things. Explain why i should believe what they say.

Why would you believe what people of today say to you? Can those people who say that 1 John 5:7 is corrupt be influenced?

The early Church fathers have been recording the practice of Christianity since the beginning, even before the canon of the Bible was defined. Ignatius, disciple of John, wrote those writings, provided in my quote, in 110AD. This was approximately the same time that John wrote Revelation.

He also wrote the following in 110AD. St. Ignatius

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.