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- Status
T
T_More
Guest
Very, very true. I ate a meal recently with a family member who has been a life long JW and asked if they have ever compared the New World Translation with another bible, and the response was that they had NEVER read ANY OTHER bible. A classic example of the old saying, “They don’t know what they don’t know.”
The WTS’s theology can sound very convincing to those that don’t have, 1) a solid understanding of their Christian faith. 2), when only the NWT bible of theirs is all that is used. I can vouch for example 1 personally, as I myself would have success in speaking to others that had a very weak Christian understanding or those that had none at all. And I can also vouch for example 2. When I read the bible vs the NWT version, I knew I had a problem.
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yellowbird
Guest
God does not have a problem with statues or lavish churches. Have you read the book of Exodus? The instructions He gave for the temple were QUITE lavish… much more lavish than any Catholic Church I’ve been in.
We are not to worship statues. Catholics don’t worship anyone or anything but God. To suggest otherwise is just ignorance.
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new
Guest
I find this very odd, as in my studies I have been encouraged many times to look at other bibles, as well as sites such as unbound.biola.edu/ . The guy I study with even gave me a Jerusalem Bible (been to his home several times, and he has a huge collection of Bibles). In my native country in Europe, they don´t even have the NWT, and use the standard bible printed by the national bible society in their language (based on King James).
After seeing the slander and untruth here I am ever more convinced that the JW are talking, preaching and practicing the truth.
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Cides28
Guest
“SLANDER AND UNTRUTH?” in the watchtower magazine about the Trinity, the writer falsely quotes some early church fathers trying to say that they did not teach Jesus was GOD but there were no quotes, now after looking for the quotes and from doing research and reading, the reason there were footnotes to those quotes was because they were erroneous misleading quotes.
the WatchTower are known for put out quotes but not putting the footnotes to where they got those quotes, i wrote a letter and asked why, ( i got their reply still at home) and the answer was to save space. “are you kidding me” but oh well…
but if you want to believe the JW’s and not study yourself the early church fathers then well all we can do is pray for you.
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new
Guest
I then guess I am ignorant…
Can you explain to me what is going on here?
http://cdn.picapp.com/ftp/Images/8/...On_e2cd.jpg?adImageId=8428038&imageId=2426261
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new
Guest
I have read several Bibles, visited several bible sites, and I can’t find a word on the “Trinity”, anywhere. I have however read a bit about the early Christians, learned about the false Christmas, Easter and etc. and the origin of the Catholic church, several hundred years after Jesus died.
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Cides28
Guest
are you God? are you saying you know their hearts? why may appear to be something for you might be something totally different for them. what i mean? i use statues as assistance as a guide to help my meditate at what i’m praying for. For instance, i love the statue of Saint Anthony holding the bible, a lilly and the child Jesus using that image to ask God for the love of Scripture, for purity, and child like trust in God. If a protestant or a non catholic would look at me the would think i’m worshipping the saint anthony statue, but why judge, who are they to judge and who are you to judge. Unless they say “YES I AM WORSHIPPING THIS STATUE OF MARY FOR MARY IS MY GOD” THEN YOU HAVE A CASE.
But non Catholic and JW’s like to do these kind of things to sway away those that are weak in their faith.
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Cides28
Guest
If you are really honest with yourself and would read the writings of the Christians (those who were taught from the apostles themselves to prior to the Constatine (Nicene Creed) you will see that the Christians taught that The Father is God, Jesus is God (not Michael the arc angel) the Holy Spirit is God. this is un deniable. it was not until Arian in the 4th Century came and taught jesus is a creature.
with all do respect all you are telling us is not something you study and came to conclusion but are just telling us what you are being taught by the JW. everything you are telling us are from the watchtower magazine and website, (i go to the JW website and have their magazines at home to make comparison.)
if you want i can easily get you quotes from the early church fathers with citations so that you can look them up yourself and truly study.
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new
Guest
This sounds like Buddhism… I won’t even go there.
However, you mind looking back at my earlier post and somehow shed light on how JW’s in countries where NWT is not available, can still use various other Bibles?
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Cides28
Guest
the bible does not say MICHAEL BECAME JESUS, THEN BACK TO MICHAEL.
Jesus body was destroyed into little atoms and then Jesus took a used body to show the people he resurected.
the bible does not say the elders ruled as a governing body, and their meeting place is called kingdom hall.
the bible does not say only the 144,000 could partake in the Lord’s supper
above is what the JW teach and yet non are in the bible.
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new
Guest
However, you mind looking back at my earlier post and somehow shed light on how JW’s in countries where NWT is not available, can still use various other Bibles?
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Cides28
Guest
sounds like buddhism? well look at the bible, even Jesus used objects, why didn’t Jesus cure the blind man with his word, why did he have to use spit and mud. Mose and the serprent on the cross, why couldn’t God cure them with his power alone but used an object? In the book of Acts people were laying the sick on the floor so that at least the shadow of Peter my pass over so that they may be healed. Paul’s hankerchief was used as a healer. Water for Baptism etc…
What about that? There are Catholics that are not allow to worship in countries too…
when u look at a NWT and compare it to a NAB, RSV, etc you will see there are big difference - when it has to do with Jesus and his divinity, the NWT is altered to water down the teach or make it say something totally different. this is fact when compared verse by verse.
compare their teaching and inerpretation of scripture, they are totally different from the Early Christians - so either Jesus lied and the gates of hell prevailed against his church really quick because there was no JW until late 1800’s or Jesus in fact keep his promise and the Holy Spirit guided the church to teach all truth which is the same still in the Catholic Church. unlike the JW their teachings has altered (or like they said light got brighter) so that means we can’t trust what is being taught now cause the light could get brighter in 10 years with a different teaching.
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dj_dave
Guest
[SIGN]
Here is one of many, many articles we have. this may come as a surprise to you, but, you really haven’t got a clue. And unless you are prepared to present EVERY article WE have written…don’t even try to defend your viewpoint. Proverbs 15:18;18:13,15
Did the Early Church Teach That God Is a Trinity?
Part 3—Did the Apologists Teach the Trinity Doctrine?
References:
[/SIGN]
Here is one of many, many articles we have. this may come as a surprise to you, but, you really haven’t got a clue. And unless you are prepared to present EVERY article WE have written…don’t even try to defend your viewpoint. Proverbs 15:18;18:13,15
Did the Early Church Teach That God Is a Trinity?
Part 3—Did the Apologists Teach the Trinity Doctrine?
References:
- A Short History of the Early Church, by Harry R.Boer, 1976, page110.
- The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, 1957, page*125.
- The Search for the Christian Doctrine of God, by R.*P.*C.Hanson, 1988, page64.
- The Church of the First Three Centuries, by Alvan Lamson, 1869, pages*70-1.
- Gods and the One God, by Robert M.Grant, 1986, pages109, 156, 160.
- The Formation of Christian Dogma, pages*122, 125.
- The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, 1982, Volume2, page513.
- An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, by John Henry Cardinal Newman, Sixth Edition, 1989, pages*14-18.
- The Ante-Nicene Fathers, edited by Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, American Reprint of the Edinburgh Edition, 1885, VolumeI, page264.
- Ibid., page*184.
- The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume1, page223.
- Ibid., page*164.
- A Short History of Christian Doctrine, by Bernhard Lohse, translated from the German by F.Ernest Stoeffler, 1963, second paperback printing, 1980, page43.
- An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, page*20.
- The Church of the First Three Centuries, pages*73-4,*76.
- The Ante-Nicene Fathers, VolumeII, page234.
- Ibid., page*227.
- Ibid., page*228.
- Ibid.
- Ibid., page*593.
- Ibid.
- Ibid., page*524.
- The Church of the First Three Centuries, pages*124-5.
- Ibid., page*95.
- The Early Church, by Henry Chadwick, 1980 printing, page*89.
- The Ante-Nicene Fathers, VolumeIII, page487.
- Ibid., pages*603-4.
- Ibid., page*478.
- An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, pages*19,*20.
- The Church of the First Three Centuries, pages*108-9.
- The Ante-Nicene Fathers, VolumeIV, page560.
- The Church of the First Three Centuries, pages*75-6.
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T_More
Guest
Are you implying that I’m a liar? Listen, the WTS will cite other bible versions passages as long as it AGREES with their theology. You want the acid test? Look at the WTS Interlinear and how they translated the NWT vs the original Greek (I can provide the scans of this very book printed by the WTS if you’d like). It’s a stretch in spots and flat out dishonest in others. BTW, the Jerusalem contains the WHOLE bible, which includes what the JW’s and other Protestant call the “Apocrypha”. Like you, I have the KJV as well, as well as many other versions. These versions leave no doubt as to the divinity of Christ, who he was, our hope as Christians and other basic Christian doctrines.
Ask yourself these basic questions, by whose authority did Charles Taze Rusell in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania have to interpret the bible, and if he was correct, why did Rutherford change most of Russells doctrines? By whose authority did Rutherford have do that?
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Cides28
Guest
email me the article to my email address and i can respond. trust me i have no worries!!! =)
it’s all in facts from the writings i am as cool with no worries=)
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T_More
Guest
dj dave, have you actually read the Ante Nicene/Early Church Fathers?
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new
Guest
I am sorry, but you are either not getting the point or ignoring it. My question is: How come in various countries which don’t have the NWT translated into their language, can the local JW’s use other bibles such as King James?
If the NWT is so “cooked up”, then how come King James bible can be used for worship and study in Kingdom Halls and home studies, covering 10’s if not 100’s of thousands of JW’s?
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Cides28
Guest
yes in fact i have a 3 volume set done by william jurgens with writinges from as early as the 1 century from clement of rome till the 700ad.
And i love it as well besides the christians teaching in the trinity it also brings me thrill that as early as ignatius of antioch 100ad teaching in the true presence of jesus in the eucharist. That’s an all other story…
But i have the book right here with me at work (the first volume that is.
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Cides28
Guest
that was just answer a couple posts ago by T - - the twisting of scripture to make it say what they want it to say. for instance when Thomas proclaims to Jesus after the resurrection “THE LORD OF ME, THE GOD OF ME” OR MY LORD AND MY GOD - thomas here is calling jesus his Lord and God but the JW will say “no he is in a sence saying OH MY GOD” is that what the bible is saying?I am sorry, but you are either not getting the point or ignoring it. My question is: How come in various countries which don’t have the NWT translated into their language, can the local JW’s use other bibles such as King James?
If the NWT is so “cooked up”, then how come King James bible can be used for worship and study in Kingdom Halls and home studies, covering 10’s if not 100’s of thousands of JW’s?
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