Jesuit general: all doctrine is subject to discernment [CWN]

[Blue_Horizon]

I never said that all of those in irregular marriage are barred from Communion according to Trent.

And the question was “Can you quote from Trent where it anathematises any irregulars ever being able to receive Communion as a matter of doctrine?”

If you cannot, which is the case thus far, then you agree with me.
All done an dusted thanks.

You can go on about whatever you like but I won’t be conversing further …unless you can quote something apposite from Trent I myself cannot find .

 

[TMC]

First, you’ll have to confirm how you know it’s a “fact that the vast majority of the bishops are with the pope on this”.

Also, the vast majority of the faithful where? Here, in the US? Even if that’s the case, one must be careful how one defines faithful. I mean, the vast majority of the faithful support abortion (more than the general public now, I understand), same sex marriage, euthanasia. When is the Catholic Church going to step up and recognize the demands of the faithful? One hopes time travel eventually becomes possible so that we can correct Christ and the men who wrote the Gospels as they got so much wrong.

Interesting how quick you are to say what I “have to” do. I can say this with some certainty. The majority of the bishops who have spoken on this issue world-wide have spoken very favorably. Do you see it otherwise? Certain websites stalk the globe to places like Kazakhstan to find naysayers, or to give press to a few of those others who have been critical. But that is not where the majority have been. Do you see it otherwise?

On the faithful, I certainly admit it is more difficult to get the pulse of such a large group. I will say that I don’t agree with your narrow view of the make up of the faithful, but even with that definition I see no evidence of widespread disagreement on this issue. I can say that I hear no issues with the Pope’s teaching among the Catholics I know in real life - none. It is only on-line that I hear all the teeth gnashing about it.

You’ll have to illustrate this point.

Really? The Pope never said any of the things that you said. Not even close.

Are you kidding me? LOL! You’re kidding me, right? Read what was put forth by the Bishops of Malta. Listen to the German Bishops. Read the document by the Argentinians.

No. I am not kidding. If you are going to put words in the mouths of the bishops and the Popes, you are at least going to have to point to those words. You are taking an extreme and cartoonish view on this teaching, and uncharitably putting those words in others’ mouths.

 

[Ghosty]

You can play with words all you like but it is relatively clear you believe an Apostolic Exhortation can never be any more than the fallible personal views of an ordinary man.

No loyal Catholic would likely agree with this jaundiced view of Magisterial statements sorry Ghosty. And this to justify your vehement disagreement with your Pope.

Nope. The Pope can make infallible pronouncements on the back of a napkin. This Apostolic Exhortation is not infallible, however, and no one with Magesterial clout has claimed otherwise.

It bears pointing out that St. John Paul II’s Familiaris Consortio is also an Apostolic Exhortation, and it directly contradicts the points in question from Amoris Laetitia.

As for disagreement with the Pope, I don’t know if I do or not. I disagree with the German and Maltese Bishops’ Conferences, I think I may agree with the Argentinean Bishop’s Conference, and I certainly agree with Cardinal Muller, yet all claim to agree with the Pope.

 

[Ghosty]

And the question was “Can you quote from Trent where it anathematises any irregulars ever being able to receive Communion as a matter of doctrine?”

If you cannot, which is the case thus far, then you agree with me.
All done an dusted thanks.

It’s a pointless question because I wasn’t addressing you or your arguments, and I was referring to divorce and remarriage and not Communion for those in irregular marriages. If you read my posts you’ll see that I’ve spoken about my thoughts on Communion for those in irregular marriage.

Remember, you engaged me, not the other way around. If you find that my position is not what you thought then that is your error.

You can go on about whatever you like but I won’t be conversing further …unless you can quote something apposite from Trent I myself cannot find .

You’re looking for an argument that I never entertained. If you want to disengage I would be grateful.

Peace and God bless!

 

[JPUSC]

It’s this kind of nonsense that is leading to the widespread questioning of certain clergy and their motives in today’s Church. It is very difficult to know who to trust and who is giving sound pastoral advice when such things are said and tacitly approved by higher authority in the Church. We may be reaching the point of no return soon. Things like AL are just symptoms of the problem. The real problem is that a small, but significant and influential number of the Church’s leaders may not fully believe in the teachings of the Church. Eventually there will have to be a day of reckoning where some from within the Church will have to stand up and fight this tide of relativism at the risk of causing a schism, and that day may be closer than many would believe.